djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 22, 2015 1:09:07 GMT -5
And before some idiot says,"If you don't like it, move"-- I don't subscribe to mob / gangland logic: pay the bag man, or move off our street / stay off our turf. has nothing to do with "turf". it has to do with citizenship. if you lived elsewhere, but were still a citizen, you would still owe taxes. no, you need to RENOUNCE YOUR CITIZENSHIP. i don't think you will be allowed to stay here, but if you are, i am sure it would just be on a temporary visa. however, since you hate this country so much, i can't imagine why you would want to stay. so, just fucking go, already.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 22, 2015 1:10:03 GMT -5
Speak for yourself. Where I live, there is a "we", there is a "pot" and there's plenty of "help". You keep howling about how they keep stealing your precious nickels and dimes. God forbid your money actually goes to help anyone. Can't have your money feeding the poor or giving them health care.
A lot of my money goes to help people; but not nearly as much of it goes to help people as is stolen by government. has nothing to do with helping people, imo. only in funding YOUR government.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 22, 2015 1:31:55 GMT -5
I guess Paul thinks the US shouldn't have roads, bridges, public schools, libraries, fire departments, garbage pickup, clean drinking water, health standards for medications, restaurants and grocery stores, a military and a veritable plethora of other public services. No, they're stealing his preciousss from him! Boo freaking hoo! What a big baby.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 22, 2015 1:47:42 GMT -5
I guess Paul thinks the US shouldn't have roads, bridges, public schools, libraries, fire departments, garbage pickup, clean drinking water, health standards for medications, restaurants and grocery stores, a military and a veritable plethora of other public services. No, they're stealing his preciousss from him! Boo freaking hoo! What a big baby. he thinks it should all be privatized. and that is fine. some people think it should all be socialized, and what it actually IS is a compromise. he is unwilling to compromise, so i am suggesting he find a country like Iraq that supports his point of view.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 22, 2015 1:52:24 GMT -5
I suggest people clean the poop out of their own back yards before complaining about a neighbors poop in theirs.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 22, 2015 1:58:21 GMT -5
I suggest people clean the poop out of their own back yards before complaining about a neighbors poop in theirs. i agree completely. time to clean our poop up. some people apparently just want to walk away from our poop, however.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on May 22, 2015 3:27:36 GMT -5
Well, that's the difference between you and me. We put all our money in a pot and help those who are struggling. I don't consider it stealing or theft. Whether it's healthcare or higher education or maternity leave, everybody benefits. We have an excellent quality of life.
There is no "we", there is no "our money", and there is no "pot", and if we've learned anything from four decades and $23 trillion dollars- there sure as hell isn't any "help". Taxes are not charity. They are stolen money. The fact that half the population is put to forced labor for over half the year is an abomination. And without government there is no money- it is a construct. Without government you are just another asshole that thinks you will win out in the state of nature when in reality you will have everything taken from you and will be lucky to be left alive. In the state of nature without government you have nothing, your income means nothing, you are nothing. I doubt you would survive if your anti-government nirvana came true. Be honest- what the fuck worth is insurance adjusting in a crisis? That makes you expendable just like your family.
Wake the fuck up.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on May 22, 2015 10:46:22 GMT -5
I guess Paul thinks the US shouldn't have roads, bridges, public schools, libraries, fire departments, garbage pickup, clean drinking water, health standards for medications, restaurants and grocery stores, a military and a veritable plethora of other public services. No, they're stealing his preciousss from him! Boo freaking hoo! What a big baby. he thinks it should all be privatized. and that is fine. some people think it should all be socialized, and what it actually IS is a compromise. he is unwilling to compromise, so i am suggesting he find a country like Iraq that supports his point of view. IMO it is totally naive to think all tax funded programs could be privatized and still function or even exist. You could move a lot of it to the state level. But that doesn't abolish taxes, merely moves them to a smaller entity. Also I don't know how that works for national defense and similar nationwide programs.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 22, 2015 11:04:48 GMT -5
I guess Paul thinks the US shouldn't have roads, bridges, public schools, libraries, fire departments, garbage pickup, clean drinking water, health standards for medications, restaurants and grocery stores, a military and a veritable plethora of other public services. No, they're stealing his preciousss from him! Boo freaking hoo! What a big baby. he thinks it should all be privatized. and that is fine. some people think it should all be socialized, and what it actually IS is a compromise. he is unwilling to compromise, so i am suggesting he find a country like Iraq that supports his point of view. Your healthcare is privatized. How's that working out for you? It's the most expensive healthcare in the world. That's what happens when "for-profit" comes into play.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 22, 2015 15:24:59 GMT -5
Ok, as long as all the anti-abortion folks run out and adopt half a dozen kids from foster care. If you love kids, prove it. Ok, as long as abortion proponents don't mind being shot and killed by AR-15 toting rednecks who believe that well, killing is just killing... and things should be fair all around. i don't think that is quite fair, because we certainly don't treat all life as if it is the same on this planet.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on May 22, 2015 15:53:16 GMT -5
So it would be fair to shoot people for their political beliefs?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 22, 2015 18:24:04 GMT -5
Depends on the belief!!!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on May 23, 2015 8:39:12 GMT -5
I see where Paul wants to have no government in his life, I don't think that what said.
So if we look at the other side of this, does this mean we should just work turn all of the money over to the government, let them decide what you should get in return?
All or nothing Right?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 23, 2015 9:14:21 GMT -5
I think a lot more things should be done on the state and local levels. If you believe in a huge safety net and a lot of govt control, go to a state that shares those beliefs. There's already states that are huge into social services, I think NJ is one of them, for children with disabilities. If I had one, I'd go there. From what I've been told, their programs are amazing, as are the taxes to support them. If you believe in not needing a lot of hand holding, go to a state that believes that as well. Yes, we do need some federal govt but not even close to what we have now. Whole depts could disappear and never be missed.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on May 23, 2015 11:13:51 GMT -5
I think a lot more things should be done on the state and local levels. If you believe in a huge safety net and a lot of govt control, go to a state that shares those beliefs. There's already states that are huge into social services, I think NJ is one of them, for children with disabilities. If I had one, I'd go there. From what I've been told, their programs are amazing, as are the taxes to support them. If you believe in not needing a lot of hand holding, go to a state that believes that as well. Yes, we do need some federal govt but not even close to what we have now. Whole depts could disappear and never be missed. I would suggest that such a plan would be doomed to failure. Not because it is a bad plan necessarily, but because it just can't work with the way we value both freedoms and compassion. Benefit-shopping would be a tremendous problem (way more so than now) and would begin a "race to the bottom" in a matter of only a few years, if that long. The only way it is even conceivable is with either strict residency requirements, on the order of maybe two years before receiving ANY benefits, or strict controls on state-to-state migration. The latter, at least, would belie the entire concept of "United" States. The reason many of these programs ARE federal is to prevent those problems, and to say that we (at least attempt to) value all of our citizens the same way no matter where they live.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 23, 2015 11:44:39 GMT -5
I see where Paul wants to have no government in his life, I don't think that what said. So if we look at the other side of this, does this mean we should just work turn all of the money over to the government, let them decide what you should get in return? All or nothing Right? wrong. no country has EVER had all or nothing. it is always some shade of grey. what we are ALWAYS talking about is shifting the balance one way or the other- not all the way to the extreme. what Paul seems to think is that the function of government should be to defend our borders, and that is about it. i think that is too small, and that what we actually have, which is far smaller than it was in the 60's, is close to being right, other than the fact that our military is too large, imo.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 23, 2015 11:46:41 GMT -5
I think a lot more things should be done on the state and local levels. If you believe in a huge safety net and a lot of govt control, go to a state that shares those beliefs. There's already states that are huge into social services, I think NJ is one of them, for children with disabilities. If I had one, I'd go there. From what I've been told, their programs are amazing, as are the taxes to support them. If you believe in not needing a lot of hand holding, go to a state that believes that as well. Yes, we do need some federal govt but not even close to what we have now. Whole depts could disappear and never be missed. which departments?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 23, 2015 18:45:41 GMT -5
Unless you are truly disabled, no one should be collecting any kind of welfare unless they are over 21, a U.S. Citizen and have worked a minimum of two years. Popping out babies should not qualify you for anything-period. That welfare should be for no longer than 2 years and 1 time only per citizen.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 23, 2015 18:47:31 GMT -5
Unless you are truly disabled, no one should be collecting any kind of welfare unless they are over 21, a U.S. Citizen and have worked a minimum of two years. Popping out babies should not qualify you for anything-period. That welfare should be for no longer than 2 years and 1 time only per citizen. which departments would you get rid of, zib?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 19:53:23 GMT -5
The program they are cutting is 100% federally funded; so they are diverting funds. If they are turning off the program, shouldn't the federal government be able to terminate that funding to AZ? I would think that will ultimately happen. I think that generally when the feds give out money for X, they want that money used for X. I don't think you'll keep getting the money if you cut the program. Our entire welfare system is setup up poorly, but this is not a fix. This is only a fix if people choose welfare as a lifestyle. Generally there are a lot more reasons involved including lack of education, mental illness, and lack of opportunities and transportation. If you want to fix welfare, first focus on why people end up on welfare. Our current system barely touches this. Then setup the program without the huge steps in benefits. Make it so you are always better off getting a job, working more hours, or getting a raise. Right now many have it so that an extra $100 a month in income could cost you thousands in benefits, so people get stuck without a way to move up. It kind of makes me sad that instead of fixing the huge flaws in a program that helps so many, they instead just cut short the program. Very shortsighted approach and shows a complete lack of understanding as to why people end up in poverty.You seem surprised by this. You do realize this was all put into place by rich politicians... right?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 19:59:57 GMT -5
And before you get into the whole "we" voted for this, no- "we" didn't. I sure didn't. And there's no moral argument for "majority vote" theft. this guy is a fucking moron. he doesn't understand the first thing about how republics function. i have addressed this video at least three times in the past, and i am not going to do so again today.edit: you can look up previous discussions by looking up this asshat's last name using the search function. i am sure i mentioned it on at least one previous occasion. end of discussion. I thought you were one of the ones that hated it and dismissed my arguments whenever I said "I've already addressed this ad nauseam, I'm not going to do so again" (or some such verbiage)... shame on you for doing exactly that (if you actually were one of the ones that has dismissed me in those instances).
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 25, 2015 11:09:41 GMT -5
this guy is a fucking moron. he doesn't understand the first thing about how republics function. i have addressed this video at least three times in the past, and i am not going to do so again today.edit: you can look up previous discussions by looking up this asshat's last name using the search function. i am sure i mentioned it on at least one previous occasion. end of discussion. I thought you were one of the ones that hated it and dismissed my arguments whenever I said "I've already addressed this ad nauseam, I'm not going to do so again" (or some such verbiage)... shame on you for doing exactly that (if you actually were one of the ones that has dismissed me in those instances). yeah. shame on me. seriously tho. a 12 year old could dissect this argument for fallacies. it is completely juvenile. taxation and robbery are nothing alike, and his repeated assertion (and Paul's) that they are just makes them sound foolish. it is not just a bunch of guys getting together and ratifying robbery. the constitution was formed by a ratifying convention. the several states voted on it. each state had their say in the ratification, and whether or not to join the convention and the constitution. it was a thorough process. but moreover, how is government supposed to function without taxation? only a child, an idiot, or apparently Larken Rose can imagine such a thing. but he offers no alternative. he just bitches about taxes like the screeching weasel he is. and, candidly, i can't see why ANYONE is not sick of him.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 25, 2015 17:38:58 GMT -5
And before some idiot says,"If you don't like it, move"-- I don't subscribe to mob / gangland logic: pay the bag man, or move off our street / stay off our turf. has nothing to do with "turf". it has to do with citizenship. if you lived elsewhere, but were still a citizen, you would still owe taxes. no, you need to RENOUNCE YOUR CITIZENSHIP. i don't think you will be allowed to stay here, but if you are, i am sure it would just be on a temporary visa. however, since you hate this country so much, i can't imagine why you would want to stay. so, just fucking go, already. You're actually arguing against my right to exist. I'm sure you don't realize that, or you will rationalize your position to somehow deny it.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 25, 2015 17:42:05 GMT -5
Unless you are truly disabled, no one should be collecting any kind of welfare unless they are over 21, a U.S. Citizen and have worked a minimum of two years. Popping out babies should not qualify you for anything-period. That welfare should be for no longer than 2 years and 1 time only per citizen. Bingo. If you can't afford to raise them, don't have them. If you're a non-citizen, you can NEVER EVER collect welfare.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 25, 2015 17:49:16 GMT -5
No living off a "citizen" that you popped out, either. Hence the no benefits until after age 21.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 25, 2015 17:50:10 GMT -5
has nothing to do with "turf". it has to do with citizenship. if you lived elsewhere, but were still a citizen, you would still owe taxes. no, you need to RENOUNCE YOUR CITIZENSHIP. i don't think you will be allowed to stay here, but if you are, i am sure it would just be on a temporary visa. however, since you hate this country so much, i can't imagine why you would want to stay. so, just fucking go, already. You're actually arguing against my right to exist. I'm sure you don't realize that, or you will rationalize your position to somehow deny it. how does NOT being a citizen deny your right to exist? there are about 7B people in this world that exist without that privilege.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 25, 2015 17:56:26 GMT -5
You're actually arguing against my right to exist. I'm sure you don't realize that, or you will rationalize your position to somehow deny it. how does NOT being a citizen deny your right to exist? there are about 5B people in this world that exist without that privilege. The world you are describing is one that is a prison where we must choose a gang affiliation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 18:07:05 GMT -5
You're actually arguing against my right to exist. I'm sure you don't realize that, or you will rationalize your position to somehow deny it. how does NOT being a citizen deny your right to exist? there are about 5B people in this world that exist without that privilege.I think you are off by almost 2 Billion... About 320 Million US Citizens, and about 7.245 Billion World Population ( source)... makes for closer to (just under, actually) 7 Billion that "exist" just fine as "non-US Citizens". In general though, I like and agree with your point.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 25, 2015 18:10:59 GMT -5
how does NOT being a citizen deny your right to exist? there are about 5B people in this world that exist without that privilege. The world you are describing is one that is a prison where we must choose a gang affiliation. if your are describing the WORLD as a prison and GOVERNMENTS as gangs, then YES. that is reality. you are stuck in this world, and you are lucky enough to be able to choose your government. many are not. so, choose, and stop whining about your choice. you were dealt a hand full of counters, Paul. don't bitch. play them.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on May 25, 2015 19:05:38 GMT -5
The world you are describing is one that is a prison where we must choose a gang affiliation. if your are describing the WORLD as a prison and GOVERNMENTS as gangs, then YES. that is reality. you are stuck in this world, and you are lucky enough to be able to choose your government. many are not. so, choose, and stop whining about your choice. you were dealt a hand full of counters, Paul. don't bitch. play them. 100% true- anyone born now is in such a prison- all the land and resources were taken long ago and nobody has any rights to anything. If you want to survive you have to play by the rules- so you have to work a job- you can't just go out into the woods and build your own shelter, hunt for food, shit and howl at the moon. And who would want to?
I'd be happy I was born in this country- because sure as shit any one of us, had we been born into another culture, might be part of ISIS today. And we would think we were in the right. So pay your taxes and be happy you have that privilege to do so as a citizen in a free country.
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