djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 21, 2015 12:19:03 GMT -5
states that tax enough are subsidizing those that don't tax enough. meanwhile, those that don't tax enough, have the gall to criticize those that tax enough, even though they are, effectively, "stealing" their money, to use a favored expression on the right. i could get mad about it, but i am far too charitable. rather, i wish they would just get real and or stfu. States that tax enough? Interesting outlook. I'm sure you understand that there are states that live within their means, and states that SPEND TOO MUCH. Why the pointless partisan rhetoric? states that tax enough to cover their own expenses, and those of Texas, yes. sorry you are having trouble with the concept, there. i guess you are not as much of a deficit hawk as i am, and that borrowing money that your grandkids will be paying is OK with you?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 21, 2015 12:21:16 GMT -5
and let the people who SAY they want welfare receipients to move elsewhere SHOW they mean it by embracing them when they move to your state Oh, I can see we don't know each other very well. I do not want a society where anyone steals from anyone else- and I really don't care if the government is their agent in the armed robbery-- theft, is theft, and I'd put a total stop to it. then please tell the red states to stop getting excess federal funds from blue states. tyia.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 21, 2015 12:28:28 GMT -5
and let the people who SAY they want welfare receipients to move elsewhere SHOW they mean it by embracing them when they move to your state Oh, I can see we don't know each other very well. I do not want a society where anyone steals from anyone else- and I really don't care if the government is their agent in the armed robbery-- theft, is theft, and I'd put a total stop to it. Well, that's the difference between you and me. We put all our money in a pot and help those who are struggling. I don't consider it stealing or theft. Whether it's healthcare or higher education or maternity leave, everybody benefits. We have an excellent quality of life.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 21, 2015 12:33:29 GMT -5
Oh, I can see we don't know each other very well. I do not want a society where anyone steals from anyone else- and I really don't care if the government is their agent in the armed robbery-- theft, is theft, and I'd put a total stop to it. Well, that's the difference between you and me. We put all our money in a pot and help those who are struggling. I don't consider it stealing or theft. Whether it's healthcare or higher education or maternity leave, everybody benefits. We have an excellent quality of life.
moreover, if you ever have the MISFORTUNE to actually need those benefits, then you will be grateful that OTHERS have done the same for you. the inability of some people to universalize this principle confounds me.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 21, 2015 13:14:26 GMT -5
I think limiting benefits and having it be once a lifetime will help do away with the idea that some people live off welfare forever. Obviously they can't. Of course there will be some way around this. Children being exempt or something.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 21, 2015 14:28:45 GMT -5
Oh, I can see we don't know each other very well. I do not want a society where anyone steals from anyone else- and I really don't care if the government is their agent in the armed robbery-- theft, is theft, and I'd put a total stop to it. Well, that's the difference between you and me. We put all our money in a pot and help those who are struggling. I don't consider it stealing or theft. Whether it's healthcare or higher education or maternity leave, everybody benefits. We have an excellent quality of life.
There is no "we", there is no "our money", and there is no "pot", and if we've learned anything from four decades and $23 trillion dollars- there sure as hell isn't any "help". Taxes are not charity. They are stolen money. The fact that half the population is put to forced labor for over half the year is an abomination.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 21, 2015 14:30:24 GMT -5
I'm sure if you agree to leave the red states alone, they'll be happy to, as a condition of being left alone, leave all the federal largesse on the table. But as the fiscal train wreck states- which are all blue- need a federal bailout, I doubt that offer will be forthcoming.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 21, 2015 14:30:52 GMT -5
Well, that's the difference between you and me. We put all our money in a pot and help those who are struggling. I don't consider it stealing or theft. Whether it's healthcare or higher education or maternity leave, everybody benefits. We have an excellent quality of life.
There is no "we", there is no "our money", and there is no "pot", and if we've learned anything from four decades and $23 trillion dollars- there sure as hell isn't any "help". Taxes are not charity. They are stolen money. The fact that half the population is put to forced labor for over half the year is an abomination. the money is not stolen. it is given, Paul. if it were theft, it could easily be stopped, just as all other theft is stoppable. but i get it. it is really fun to say "stolen". you have just stolen another minute of my time, Paul.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 21, 2015 14:31:34 GMT -5
I'm sure if you agree to leave the red states alone, they'll be happy to, as a condition of being left alone, leave all the federal largesse on the table. But as the fiscal train wreck states- which are all blue- need a federal bailout, I doubt that offer will be forthcoming. that will be most awkward, given that the blue states give more than they take.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 21, 2015 14:32:49 GMT -5
The states in the worst fiscal shape are all blue.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 21, 2015 14:37:37 GMT -5
The states in the worst fiscal shape are all blue. not true. according to the Tax Foundation: Florida is 5th PA is 6th GA is 7th NC is 8th those are arguably purple, but they are not blue. the states that take more than they give, however, are all red. edit: PS- a year or two ago, CA's bankruptcy was being touted as right around the corner, and now we are running surpluses. so forgive me if i laugh at the idea that state bankruptcy is going to happen any time soon, and that there will be a federal response for it, if it does.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on May 21, 2015 15:31:46 GMT -5
The states in the worst fiscal shape are all blue. not true. according to the Tax Foundation: Florida is 5th PA is 6th GA is 7th NC is 8th those are arguably purple, but they are not blue. the states that take more than they give, however, are all red. edit: PS- a year or two ago, CA's bankruptcy was being touted as right around the corner, and now we are running surpluses. so forgive me if i laugh at the idea that state bankruptcy is going to happen any time soon, and that there will be a federal response for it, if it does. Wait, what!!! Are you citing my most favorite right wing think tank as a source? JK.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 21, 2015 16:17:39 GMT -5
not true. according to the Tax Foundation: Florida is 5th PA is 6th GA is 7th NC is 8th those are arguably purple, but they are not blue. the states that take more than they give, however, are all red. edit: PS- a year or two ago, CA's bankruptcy was being touted as right around the corner, and now we are running surpluses. so forgive me if i laugh at the idea that state bankruptcy is going to happen any time soon, and that there will be a federal response for it, if it does. Wait, what!!! Are you citing my most favorite right wing think tank as a source? JK. sometimes i figure that if i use the same sources Paul does, it will reduce the friction.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 21, 2015 16:32:52 GMT -5
Well, that's the difference between you and me. We put all our money in a pot and help those who are struggling. I don't consider it stealing or theft. Whether it's healthcare or higher education or maternity leave, everybody benefits. We have an excellent quality of life.
There is no "we", there is no "our money", and there is no "pot", and if we've learned anything from four decades and $23 trillion dollars- there sure as hell isn't any "help". Taxes are not charity. They are stolen money. The fact that half the population is put to forced labor for over half the year is an abomination. Speak for yourself. Where I live, there is a "we", there is a "pot" and there's plenty of "help". You keep howling about how they keep stealing your precious nickels and dimes. God forbid your money actually goes to help anyone. Can't have your money feeding the poor or giving them health care.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 21, 2015 16:38:28 GMT -5
There is no "we", there is no "our money", and there is no "pot", and if we've learned anything from four decades and $23 trillion dollars- there sure as hell isn't any "help". Taxes are not charity. They are stolen money. The fact that half the population is put to forced labor for over half the year is an abomination. Speak for yourself. Where I live, there is a "we", there is a "pot" and there's plenty of "help". You keep howling about how they keep stealing your precious nickels and dimes. God forbid your money actually goes to help anyone. Can't have your money feeding the poor or giving them health care.
we are entering the terminal phase of the War On The Milk Of Human Kindness. it has been going on for at least a generation.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 21, 2015 16:44:19 GMT -5
Speak for yourself. Where I live, there is a "we", there is a "pot" and there's plenty of "help". You keep howling about how they keep stealing your precious nickels and dimes. God forbid your money actually goes to help anyone. Can't have your money feeding the poor or giving them health care.
we are entering the terminal phase of the War On The Milk Of Human Kindness. it has been on for at least a generation. Heh. Have you read the "Contributions to Society" thread?
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Robert not Bobby
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Post by Robert not Bobby on May 21, 2015 16:48:57 GMT -5
I think this is somewhat misguided, but possibly with good intentions.
In my view there should always be social assistance programs to help those "who fell through the cracks, through no fault of their own". I hope we are not an entirely heartless society...but it should not become generational and a lifestyle.
I don't know, raise the minimum wage to a "living wage" for those who make the effort to get up in the morning and present a positive example to their kids...subsidize daycare, etc.
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Robert not Bobby
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Post by Robert not Bobby on May 21, 2015 17:03:04 GMT -5
Read my post again. It's pretty clear. You said five kids by five different fathers, but don't really know. You based that "fact" on a rumour. When I was a high school senior I worked in a daycare, for one summer, in an underprivileged neighborhood...my responsibilities were to help the kids learn to read and write and take them out on trips to local parks for picnics. I will never forget, there was this lady, black, very hot, who always came to pick up five or six kids...they all had different last names. I thought, what a great neighbor she is, and then I found out, they were all hers. Never saw any fathers.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 21, 2015 17:15:15 GMT -5
And? Kids sired by different fathers don't deserve to eat?
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Robert not Bobby
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Post by Robert not Bobby on May 21, 2015 17:19:45 GMT -5
Don't pull out a straw man argument.
People should just be more responsible and not let "society" take care of their problems.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 21, 2015 17:50:14 GMT -5
Find their fathers and they should help feed them.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 21, 2015 18:31:33 GMT -5
There is no "we", there is no "our money", and there is no "pot", and if we've learned anything from four decades and $23 trillion dollars- there sure as hell isn't any "help". Taxes are not charity. They are stolen money. The fact that half the population is put to forced labor for over half the year is an abomination. the money is not stolen. it is given, Paul. if it were theft, it could easily be stopped, just as all other theft is stoppable. but i get it. it is really fun to say "stolen". you have just stolen another minute of my time, Paul. I'm sure it will come as pretty big news to people that paying taxes is completely voluntary and they can stop paying taxes any time they want.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 21, 2015 18:33:01 GMT -5
And before you get into the whole "we" voted for this, no- "we" didn't. I sure didn't. And there's no moral argument for "majority vote" theft.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 21, 2015 18:40:34 GMT -5
And before you get into the whole "we" voted for this, no- "we" didn't. I sure didn't. And there's no moral argument for "majority vote" theft. this guy is a fucking moron. he doesn't understand the first thing about how republics function. i have addressed this video at least three times in the past, and i am not going to do so again today. edit: you can look up previous discussions by looking up this asshat's last name using the search function. i am sure i mentioned it on at least one previous occasion. end of discussion.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 21, 2015 18:42:55 GMT -5
the money is not stolen. it is given, Paul. if it were theft, it could easily be stopped, just as all other theft is stoppable. but i get it. it is really fun to say "stolen". you have just stolen another minute of my time, Paul. I'm sure it will come as pretty big news to people that paying taxes is completely voluntary and they can stop paying taxes any time they want. but US taxes are completely voluntary. you could stop paying them TOMORROW, Paul (not today, however, it is too late for that). we have had this discussion way more than three times, however. you are still not getting it. so, end of discussion here, as well.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 21, 2015 21:29:19 GMT -5
I'm sure it will come as pretty big news to people that paying taxes is completely voluntary and they can stop paying taxes any time they want. but US taxes are completely voluntary. you could stop paying them TOMORROW, Paul (not today, however, it is too late for that). we have had this discussion way more than three times, however. you are still not getting it. so, end of discussion here, as well. False. 1. Stop paying taxes 2. People with guns will come and confiscate them, or the equivalent in assets plus penalties 3. Resist, and you will be put into prison, or killed. This is not even remotely "voluntary". Government simply takes what it wants at gunpoint, and if you do not comply you are imprisoned or killed. Taxes are theft.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 21, 2015 21:30:24 GMT -5
And before some idiot says,"If you don't like it, move"-- I don't subscribe to mob / gangland logic: pay the bag man, or move off our street / stay off our turf.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 21, 2015 21:31:31 GMT -5
There is no "we", there is no "our money", and there is no "pot", and if we've learned anything from four decades and $23 trillion dollars- there sure as hell isn't any "help". Taxes are not charity. They are stolen money. The fact that half the population is put to forced labor for over half the year is an abomination. Speak for yourself. Where I live, there is a "we", there is a "pot" and there's plenty of "help". You keep howling about how they keep stealing your precious nickels and dimes. God forbid your money actually goes to help anyone. Can't have your money feeding the poor or giving them health care.
A lot of my money goes to help people; but not nearly as much of it goes to help people as is stolen by government.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 22, 2015 1:05:27 GMT -5
Hopefully other states will start following AZ.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 22, 2015 1:07:03 GMT -5
but US taxes are completely voluntary. you could stop paying them TOMORROW, Paul (not today, however, it is too late for that). we have had this discussion way more than three times, however. you are still not getting it. so, end of discussion here, as well. False. 1. Stop paying taxes 2. People with guns will come and confiscate them, or the equivalent in assets plus penalties 3. Resist, and you will be put into prison, or killed. This is not even remotely "voluntary". Government simply takes what it wants at gunpoint, and if you do not comply you are imprisoned or killed. Taxes are theft. you are totally wrong, Paul. taxes are to pay for YOUR GOVERNMENT. the only thing you need to do in order to not pay them is RENOUNCE YOUR CITIZENSHIP AND MOVE. please do so. immediately. tyia. and you will no longer be obligated to pay ANY MORE TAXES. one last thing- please stop bullshitting me about this. i have had enough.
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