AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 9, 2015 7:32:50 GMT -5
In my personal opinion, SOMETHING happened in Baltimore to Freddie Gray that should not have happened, but what exactly it was, we do not know. The man had a broken neck, and the police van made an unscheduled stop and we still don't know the details of that stop. Here's what we know for sure: this wasn't "murder". Murder is an intent crime, and it's going to be difficult to establish that the black officer that was driving- the one charged with murder- showed "depraved indifference" let alone intent to kill someone. So, the charges are going to be dismissed, or the officers are going to be acquitted. The liberal mob will then explode once more because they are ignorant, they do not understand the process, they don't have any respect for the evidence, they don't understand the importance of fair and impartial justice, and nobody that they listen to will educate them / explain this to them. Because there is a political party and an ideological movement whose lifeblood is an ignorant, dependent victim class. In the end, we'll have people agitating this mob with cries of Baltimore as a rallying cry even though, like Ferguson where the claim of a "hands up, don't shoot" execution situation never actually happened nor anything close to it, the facts just do not matter to some people. The prosecutor is clearly a member of the mob- ignorant and woefully incompetent herself. She was so sloppy in the charging document that she listed two people that weren't even involved. She failed to go to the grand jury. She, was out with the charges BEFORE she even had the police report in hand, let alone reviewed it. So, here we go again: www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-freddie-gray-mosby-20150505-story.html
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 28, 2024 5:41:15 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 9, 2015 7:39:40 GMT -5
Can't intent to do serious bodily harm and extreme reckless disregard be classified as intent to kill. Reckless homicide?
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,462
|
Post by billisonboard on May 9, 2015 7:59:57 GMT -5
Can't intent to do serious bodily harm and extreme reckless disregard be classified as intent to kill. Reckless homicide? Second-degree murder is the killing of another person while acting with an extreme disregard for human life. In order to convict the defendant of second-degree murder, the State must prove:
(1) that the defendant caused the death of (name);
(2) that the defendant's conduct created a very high risk to the life of (name); and
(3) that the defendant, conscious of such risk, acted with extreme disregard of the life-endangering consequences.
What is depraved-heart murder in Maryland? An example I heard throwing someone unconscious naked into a snow bank in a deserted area.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,104
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on May 9, 2015 10:27:21 GMT -5
sounds like it might meet that standard. and negligent homicide is a no-brainer, probably.
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,702
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
Member is Online
|
Post by Opti on May 9, 2015 10:52:57 GMT -5
Like all these cases what the charges are become of utmost importance. Most people including conservatives are not well versed in the various shades of charges when it comes to killing someone. In general speech, if you kill someone intentionally or not we usually call it murder. However, the legal system has created all these shades of charges regarding killing someone, which is confusing to most non legal folks.
And the problem snowballs because prosecutors often over-charge in cases like these and guilty people walk free, not because they are totally innocent, but they were charged on crime levels that could not be proven. Which is bad because it teaches some people including cops ways to get away with manslaughter intentional or not and teaches the people that cops or others who kill people may get no punishment at all except a trial.
I think Ferguson probably turned out the way it should have.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,104
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on May 9, 2015 10:58:31 GMT -5
Like all these cases what the charges are become of utmost importance. Most people including conservatives are not well versed in the various shades of charges when it comes to killing someone. In general speech, if you kill someone intentionally or not we usually call it murder. However, the legal system has created all these shades of charges regarding killing someone, which is confusing to most non legal folks.
And the problem snowballs because prosecutors often over-charge in cases like these and guilty people walk free, not because they are totally innocent, but they were charged on crime levels that could not be proven. Which is bad because it teaches some people including cops ways to get away with manslaughter intentional or not and teaches the people that cops or others who kill people may get no punishment at all except a trial.
I think Ferguson probably turned out the way it should have. where is your "liberal outrage"?
|
|
EVT1
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 16:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 8,596
|
Post by EVT1 on May 9, 2015 10:59:49 GMT -5
I used the example already- if I toss a baby unrestrained in the back of a cargo van and do a few donuts and it winds up dead with a severed spine- what do you think am I going to be charged with?
It was ruled a homicide- a few of them are going down for it at a minimum of negligent homicide- for repeatedly failing to secure the man and repeatedly failing to provide medical attention.
People are getting tired of this kind of thug behavior by the police. Just yesterday:
www.cnn.com/2015/05/08/us/delaware-police-kick-video/
The previous grand jury did not indict- the new one did after the tape came out. About time there is some accountability.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 9, 2015 11:15:19 GMT -5
Can't intent to do serious bodily harm and extreme reckless disregard be classified as intent to kill. Reckless homicide? Intent? Sure. Now, prove intent. I think there's a case to be made for reckless endangerment for the no-seatbelt thing, but even that's going to be an uphill climb since the policy was recently instituted, it's not clear the officers were even aware of the policy, AND most important- it is not clear whether or not the lack of a seatbelt in any way contributed to the fatal injury. It isn't even clear that Gray wasn't injured previous to the encounter with the police. It has been known to happen that someone sustains an injury that doesn't immediately manifest itself- even quite serious injury. My sister was an ER nurse, she said someone with this exact injury came in one night complaining of neck pain. The patient had been in a car accident six days earlier, and they were injured, but did not seek medical attention at the time of the accident. She said if almost anything had happened to the woman- if something startled her and she turned her head too fast- she would have been instantly paralysed or killed. The bottom line is that the state's attorney rushed to file charges to quell the mob. It worked. Now what? Generally, when you threaten someone with 20 years to life in prison- they obtain defense counsel. Go figure. Three of the officers were black so there goes your racial bias- and if there is a racial bias in law enforcement against blacks, wouldn't it be logical to conclude that these three black defendants aren't also victims of said bias? It's going to be a real uphill battle for the state. Odds are the state loses- and it is not at all outside the realm of possibility that they accidentally get in front of a sensible judge and the case is dismissed. There's easily enough to dismiss the murder charge right now.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,104
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on May 9, 2015 11:17:07 GMT -5
Can't intent to do serious bodily harm and extreme reckless disregard be classified as intent to kill. Reckless homicide? Intent? Sure. Now, prove intent. I think there's a case to be made for reckless endangerment for the no-seatbelt thing, but even that's going to be an uphill climb since the policy was recently instituted, it's not clear the officers were even aware of the policy, AND most important- it is not clear whether or not the lack of a seatbelt in any way contributed to the fatal injury. It isn't even clear that Gray wasn't injured previous to the encounter with the police. an autopsy will clear that up. crystal.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 9, 2015 11:18:02 GMT -5
I used the example already- if I toss a baby unrestrained in the back of a cargo van and do a few donuts and it winds up dead with a severed spine- what do you think am I going to be charged with?
It was ruled a homicide- a few of them are going down for it at a minimum of negligent homicide- for repeatedly failing to secure the man and repeatedly failing to provide medical attention.
People are getting tired of this kind of thug behavior by the police. Just yesterday:
www.cnn.com/2015/05/08/us/delaware-police-kick-video/
The previous grand jury did not indict- the new one did after the tape came out. About time there is some accountability.
I agree with you to a large extent about the police, and police misconduct. My entire point in posting this is that this is not helpful in addressing the issue because it is more important that we do not create an atmosphere of politically motivated prosecutions- of anyone. It is important that the police be held to the same standard as anyone else before the law, and that we break the incestuous relationship between the courts and law enforcement- but not to the point of "turning the tables". We need to stop this pendulum right in the dead center.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 9, 2015 11:18:54 GMT -5
Intent? Sure. Now, prove intent. I think there's a case to be made for reckless endangerment for the no-seatbelt thing, but even that's going to be an uphill climb since the policy was recently instituted, it's not clear the officers were even aware of the policy, AND most important- it is not clear whether or not the lack of a seatbelt in any way contributed to the fatal injury. It isn't even clear that Gray wasn't injured previous to the encounter with the police. an autopsy will clear that up. crystal. Not likely. It can prove this was the fatal injury, but it will be very tough to establish when the injury first occurred.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 9, 2015 11:21:33 GMT -5
I think they've got enough for assault, reckless endangerment, and maybe on a nice glorious good day with the wind at their backs- criminally negligent homicide. We're going to have to find out what that "unscheduled stop" was all about? My guess it was where they discovered Gray dead, and they all got their stories straight. So, there might be an obstruction charge?
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,104
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on May 9, 2015 11:22:25 GMT -5
an autopsy will clear that up. crystal. Not likely. It can prove this was the fatal injury, but it will be very tough to establish when the injury first occurred. no, it will be quite easy. it is done by analyzing "remodeling". you can pinpoint pretty much the day it happened that way. edit: assuming that they do a thorough autopsy, that is.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,462
|
Post by billisonboard on May 9, 2015 11:34:41 GMT -5
... We're going to have to find out what that "unscheduled stop" was all about? My guess it was where they discovered Gray dead, ... I would say that is a very, very bad guess.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 9, 2015 11:53:53 GMT -5
... We're going to have to find out what that "unscheduled stop" was all about? My guess it was where they discovered Gray dead, ... I would say that is a very, very bad guess. Well, guessing is generally bad.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 9, 2015 11:54:49 GMT -5
Not likely. It can prove this was the fatal injury, but it will be very tough to establish when the injury first occurred. no, it will be quite easy. it is done by analyzing "remodeling". you can pinpoint pretty much the day it happened that way. edit: assuming that they do a thorough autopsy, that is. It's a murder case. They're going to do a thorough autopsy whether they want to, or not.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 9, 2015 11:56:07 GMT -5
Can't intent to do serious bodily harm and extreme reckless disregard be classified as intent to kill. Reckless homicide? Second-degree murder is the killing of another person while acting with an extreme disregard for human life. In order to convict the defendant of second-degree murder, the State must prove:
(1) that the defendant caused the death of (name);
(2) that the defendant's conduct created a very high risk to the life of (name); and
(3) that the defendant, conscious of such risk, acted with extreme disregard of the life-endangering consequences.
What is depraved-heart murder in Maryland? An example I heard throwing someone unconscious naked into a snow bank in a deserted area. And if they cannot prove ALL of them, it doesn't matter if they can prove any of them. #2 & #3 based on failure to put a seatbelt on? Not likely.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,462
|
Post by billisonboard on May 9, 2015 11:57:11 GMT -5
I would say that is a very, very bad guess. Well, guessing is generally bad. Your guess is even worse than normal considering.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 9, 2015 11:58:03 GMT -5
Well, guessing is generally bad. Your guess is even worse than normal considering. So, you don't think that at any point these cops realized Gray was dead; collectively shit their pants and started conspiring on the story? I don't think that's a bad guess at all.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,462
|
Post by billisonboard on May 9, 2015 11:58:26 GMT -5
Second-degree murder is the killing of another person while acting with an extreme disregard for human life. In order to convict the defendant of second-degree murder, the State must prove:
(1) that the defendant caused the death of (name);
(2) that the defendant's conduct created a very high risk to the life of (name); and
(3) that the defendant, conscious of such risk, acted with extreme disregard of the life-endangering consequences.
What is depraved-heart murder in Maryland? An example I heard throwing someone unconscious naked into a snow bank in a deserted area. And if they cannot prove ALL of them, it doesn't matter if they can prove any of them. #2 & #3 based on failure to put a seatbelt on? Not likely. That other factor is what 3 is based on.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,462
|
Post by billisonboard on May 9, 2015 11:59:59 GMT -5
Your guess is even worse than normal considering. So, you don't think that at any point these cops realized Gray was dead; collectively shit their pants and started conspiring on the story? I don't think that's a bad guess at all. I don't think at any point during the transport the police realized he was dead.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,104
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on May 9, 2015 12:12:28 GMT -5
no, it will be quite easy. it is done by analyzing "remodeling". you can pinpoint pretty much the day it happened that way. edit: assuming that they do a thorough autopsy, that is. It's a murder case. They're going to do a thorough autopsy whether they want to, or not. then stop doubting me.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,104
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on May 9, 2015 12:13:20 GMT -5
Well, guessing is generally bad. Your guess is even worse than normal considering. "guesses are".
|
|
EVT1
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 16:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 8,596
|
Post by EVT1 on May 9, 2015 12:57:51 GMT -5
Your guess is even worse than normal considering. So, you don't think that at any point these cops realized Gray was dead; collectively shit their pants and started conspiring on the story? I don't think that's a bad guess at all. Considering the man died a week later I would say they did not notice he was dead But to proving the case- the fact that other people have come out of that van with injuries from rough rides, and the ME stated that the injury was the type that happen in car crashes I'd say it may not be that hard to prove at all- but I bet it ends up negligent homicide.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,462
|
Post by billisonboard on May 9, 2015 13:03:32 GMT -5
So, you don't think that at any point these cops realized Gray was dead; collectively shit their pants and started conspiring on the story? I don't think that's a bad guess at all. Considering the man died a week later I would say they did not notice he was dead ... Killjoy
|
|
ken a.k.a OMK
Senior Associate
They killed Kenny, the bastards.
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 14:39:20 GMT -5
Posts: 14,106
Location: Maryland
|
Post by ken a.k.a OMK on May 9, 2015 13:31:13 GMT -5
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,462
|
Post by billisonboard on May 9, 2015 16:20:33 GMT -5
The sun rose in the East this morning also.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,462
|
Post by billisonboard on May 9, 2015 20:24:23 GMT -5
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP, now that you have been made aware of one factual error you were using to offer opinions in regards to this case, and assuming that it has lead to you learning even more, has that new knowledge caused you to reconsider your position?
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 11, 2015 6:47:55 GMT -5
Considering the man died a week later I would say they did not notice he was dead ... Killjoy Ahh, I was not aware of this. I've honestly not read a single story about this, or watched any news. Because to me TravonMichaelBrownEricGardner are all just the same SorosObamaHolderClowardPiven agitation. Everything about these astroturf 'uprisings' is just so manufactured as to be ridiculous. That being said, I do have an interest in finding out what actually happened and this was the first story I've read about the actual charges filed. So, he died a week later- but was it from an injury allegedly sustained in the police van? Did they have an opportunity to notice he was seriously injured- was he paralysed, for example, from this spinal injury? Was he conscious when they unloaded him? I'll look all this up, but I was under the impression he arrived dead.
|
|
happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 20,885
|
Post by happyhoix on May 11, 2015 7:24:13 GMT -5
What, are we talking about all the freaked out Texans who are certain the US Government is planning to invade and take over Texas because someone leaked a wargames map showing Texas as 'hostile' territory?
Is it THAT political party and dependant victim class we're talking about?
|
|