Here We Go Again: Political Activist SA Blowing It

[happyhoix]

May 11, 2015 6:47:55 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

May 9, 2015 13:03:32 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Killjoy

Ahh, I was not aware of this.  I've honestly not read a single story about this, or watched any news.  Because to me TravonMichaelBrownEricGardner are all just the same SorosObamaHolderClowardPiven agitation.  Everything about these astroturf 'uprisings' is just so manufactured as to be ridiculous.  That being said, I do have an interest in finding out what actually happened and this was the first story I've read about the actual charges filed.

So, he died a week later- but was it from an injury allegedly sustained in the police van? Did they have an opportunity to notice he was seriously injured- was he paralysed, for example, from this spinal injury? Was he conscious when they unloaded him? I'll look all this up, but I was under the impression he arrived dead. 

You should read it. The young man wasn't doing anything wrong, he just 'made eye contact' with one of the officers, and tried to evade them. When they caught him and frisked him, he had a perfectly legal knife (not a switchblade) stuck in his sock. Then they stuck him in a van and gave him a 'rough ride' - something that is not uncommon in Baltimore. The City has been sued multiple times over the last few years for this practice, and paid about 7 million out in damages.

That said, it's always very hard to convict policemen, unless there is a smoking gun like a video. The cop driving the police van may very well claim he didn't put the guy in the back and thought he was properly seatbelted in, as per regulations. So I don't know if they will convict any of them for murder. However, it at least demonstrates Baltimore's willingness to make the cops responsible for their actions, which is better than pretending nothing happened.

[billisonboard]

May 11, 2015 7:32:49 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

... he had a perfectly legal knife (not a switchblade) stuck in his sock. ....

Minor point:

... the knife found in the suspect's pocket ...  www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/05/05/baltimore-cop-claims-freddie-gray-knife-illegal/26950303/

Important because only "bad guys" carry their knifes in their sock.

[happyhoix]

May 11, 2015 7:44:54 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 11, 2015 7:32:49 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

... he had a perfectly legal knife (not a switchblade) stuck in his sock. ....

Minor point:

... the knife found in the suspect's pocket ...  www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/05/05/baltimore-cop-claims-freddie-gray-knife-illegal/26950303/

Important because only "bad guys" carry their knifes in their sock.

Hmmm, so it wasn't in his sock and it wasn't a switchblade?

Interesting how the story changes depending on how someone is trying to spin it.

[Tennesseer]

May 11, 2015 6:47:55 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

May 9, 2015 13:03:32 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Killjoy

Ahh, I was not aware of this.  I've honestly not read a single story about this, or watched any news.  Because to me TravonMichaelBrownEricGardner are all just the same SorosObamaHolderClowardPiven agitation.  Everything about these astroturf 'uprisings' is just so manufactured as to be ridiculous.  That being said, I do have an interest in finding out what actually happened and this was the first story I've read about the actual charges filed.

So, he died a week later- but was it from an injury allegedly sustained in the police van? Did they have an opportunity to notice he was seriously injured- was he paralysed, for example, from this spinal injury? Was he conscious when they unloaded him? I'll look all this up, but I was under the impression he arrived dead. 

You have not read a single story or watched any news about this case, but you started a thread about it.  You must have read something about this case before forming an opinion. Or did you just randomly come across a The Baltimore Sun article and pass judgment withouth knowing any of the facts. 

[billisonboard]

May 11, 2015 7:50:14 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

... Or did you just randomly come across a The Baltimore Sun article and pass judgment withouth knowing any of the facts. 

It was an op-ed he read.

[Tennesseer]

May 11, 2015 7:53:23 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 11, 2015 7:50:14 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

... Or did you just randomly come across a The Baltimore Sun article and pass judgment withouth knowing any of the facts. 

It was an op-ed he read.

Like reading the last page of the Cliff Notes version of the Bible and claiming you are an expert on the book.

[Value Buy]

Has anyone OFFICIALLY determined whether the knife was legal?
Last I read, it was LEGAL in the state of Maryland, but ILLEGAL in the city of Baltimore, due to city law being more restrictive.

[billisonboard]

May 11, 2015 8:05:30 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Has anyone OFFICIALLY determined whether the knife was legal?
Last I read, it was LEGAL in the state of Maryland, but ILLEGAL in the city of Baltimore, due to city law being more restrictive.

Interesting question. Who is that official who can make that determination? Ultimately in this situation, it seems like it will be up to either a judge or jury to determine it.

[EVT1]

The knife is pretty much irrelevant for the serious charges anyway- I doubt the bad arrest part of it is going to stick.

[EVT1]

May 11, 2015 7:24:13 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Because there is a political party and an ideological movement whose lifeblood is an ignorant, dependent victim class.

What, are we talking about all the freaked out Texans who are certain the US Government is planning to invade and take over Texas because someone leaked a wargames map showing Texas as 'hostile' territory?

Is it THAT political party and dependant victim class we're talking about?

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Baltimore (AP) - Newly released records show that thousands of people have been brought to the Baltimore city jail in recent years with injuries too severe for them to be admitted.

The Baltimore Sun obtained records showing that correctional officers at the jail refused to admit nearly 2,600 detainees who were in police custody between June 2012 and April 2015...........123 weren't admitted to jail had visible head injuries. Others had broken bones or facial trauma.

[Tennesseer]

May 11, 2015 12:54:09 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

Baltimore (AP) - Newly released records show that thousands of people have been brought to the Baltimore city jail in recent years with injuries too severe for them to be admitted.

The Baltimore Sun obtained records showing that correctional officers at the jail refused to admit nearly 2,600 detainees who were in police custody between June 2012 and April 2015...........123 weren't admitted to jail had visible head injuries. Others had broken bones or facial trauma.

Ouch?

[ken a.k.a OMK]

I just quoted the article, but I wonder if they can prove those injuries happened while in the paddy wagon or happened before arrest, like after a fight before police arrived.

[billisonboard]

May 11, 2015 13:19:49 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

I just quoted the article, but I wonder if they can prove those injuries happened while in the paddy wagon or happened before arrest, like after a fight before police arrived.

My understanding is he was spotted, went for a run, was chased down, was arrested, tossed into the van, and was taken from the back of the van by gurney into the emergency room.  The case in court will be interesting but doesn't seem like it will be that tough to show the injuries happened when in custody.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 11, 2015 7:32:49 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

May 11, 2015 6:47:55 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Ahh, I was not aware of this.  I've honestly not read a single story about this, or watched any news.  Because to me TravonMichaelBrownEricGardner are all just the same SorosObamaHolderClowardPiven agitation.  Everything about these astroturf 'uprisings' is just so manufactured as to be ridiculous.  That being said, I do have an interest in finding out what actually happened and this was the first story I've read about the actual charges filed.

So, he died a week later- but was it from an injury allegedly sustained in the police van? Did they have an opportunity to notice he was seriously injured- was he paralysed, for example, from this spinal injury? Was he conscious when they unloaded him? I'll look all this up, but I was under the impression he arrived dead. 

You should read it. The young man wasn't doing anything wrong, he just 'made eye contact' with one of the officers, and tried to evade them. When they caught him and frisked him, he had a perfectly legal knife (not a switchblade) stuck in his sock. Then they stuck him in a van and gave him a 'rough ride' - something that is not uncommon in Baltimore. The City has been sued multiple times over the last few years for this practice, and paid about 7 million out in damages.

That said, it's always very hard to convict policemen, unless there is a smoking gun like a video. The cop driving the police van may very well claim he didn't put the guy in the back and thought he was properly seatbelted in, as per regulations. So I don't know if they will convict any of them for murder. However, it at least demonstrates Baltimore's willingness to make the cops responsible for their actions, which is better than pretending nothing happened.

I've delved into it somewhat- and it is not all that clear that the knife was "perfectly legal".  It was apparently an illegal switchblade.  I'm not a big fan of the notion of "illegal" weapons, but the law is the law I suppose.  It does seem like something happened to Mr. Gray while in police custody that caused his ultimately fatal injury.  The prosecutor can be political, but I doubt the ME that ruled it a homicide did so from political motivation.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 11, 2015 13:19:49 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

I just quoted the article, but I wonder if they can prove those injuries happened while in the paddy wagon or happened before arrest, like after a fight before police arrived.

Well, I'm all for "innocent until proven guilty", but there has to be some plausible explanation for his injuries other than the the ride in the paddy wagon besides a mythical fight that might have happened before the police showed up.

[billisonboard]

May 11, 2015 17:09:02 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

... I've delved into it somewhat- and it is not all that clear that the knife was "perfectly legal".  It was apparently an illegal switchblade. ...

For her part, Baltimore State’s Attorney Marilyn Mosby has said that Gray’s knife was legal. Maryland and Baltimore law prohibit “automatic” knives such as switchblades; Gray’s knife was described by police as ...

Officer Edward Nero, who helped capture the fleeing Gray, filed motions on Monday for prosecutors to present the knife for inspection. He argues that it is illegal, ... Up to this point, prosecutors have declined demands from The Associated Press to release pictures of the knife. news.yahoo.com/freddie-grays-knife-says-police-power-america-195923463.html

What confuses me is how any of us can make a call on a knife we have not seen. The police say it illegal and the prosecutor says it is legal. The police have a very good reason to say it illegal. The prosecutor didn't really have a good reason to say it was legal in the first place (but does to continue to hold that position).  My position on the issue:

[Value Buy]

May 11, 2015 12:20:54 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

The knife is pretty much irrelevant for the serious charges anyway- I doubt the bad arrest part of it is going to stick.

Yes, but two of the police that were arrested were arrested for arresting him on a charge of an illegal knife.

If it was illegal in Baltimore they should not have been charged. 

[Value Buy]

May 11, 2015 17:45:02 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 11, 2015 17:09:02 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

... I've delved into it somewhat- and it is not all that clear that the knife was "perfectly legal".  It was apparently an illegal switchblade. ...

For her part, Baltimore State’s Attorney Marilyn Mosby has said that Gray’s knife was legal. Maryland and Baltimore law prohibit “automatic” knives such as switchblades; Gray’s knife was described by police as ...

Officer Edward Nero, who helped capture the fleeing Gray, filed motions on Monday for prosecutors to present the knife for inspection. He argues that it is illegal, ... Up to this point, prosecutors have declined demands from The Associated Press to release pictures of the knife. news.yahoo.com/freddie-grays-knife-says-police-power-america-195923463.html

What confuses me is how any of us can make a call on a knife we have not seen. The police say it illegal and the prosecutor says it is legal. The police have a very good reason to say it illegal. The prosecutor didn't really have a good reason to say it was legal in the first place (but does to continue to hold that position).  My position on the issue:

It was my understanding it was not an actual switchblade.
It was a blade that is somehow triggered by hand pressure, but not a switchblade, but still illegal in Baltimore.

[Value Buy]

Incidently, can anyone tell me how many black lives in Baltimore were ended in the ten days after the protests started and who did the killing?
This is not a trick question.
This is about black lives mattering.

[Opti]

May 11, 2015 18:14:18 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Incidently, can anyone tell me how many black lives in Baltimore were ended in the ten days after the protests started and who did the killing?
This is not a trick question.
This is about black lives mattering.

I think its  a trick post.  Protest does not always go smoothly nor does doing nothing really save more lives if you feel you are at risk. I believe some of Ghandi's followers got killed in some of the protests but eventually India became free of British rule.

[Value Buy]

May 11, 2015 18:30:13 GMT -5 Opti said:

May 11, 2015 18:14:18 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Incidently, can anyone tell me how many black lives in Baltimore were ended in the ten days after the protests started and who did the killing?
This is not a trick question.
This is about black lives mattering.

I think its  a trick post.  Protest does not always go smoothly nor does doing nothing really save more lives if you feel you are at risk. I believe some of Ghandi's followers got killed in some of the protests but eventually India became free of British rule.

Okay, let me simplify the question.
How many black Americans were killed in Baltimore for the ten day period starting with the protest day, that were not protesting?

[Value Buy]

This will not give the correct total answer, but here is some info concerning black shootings in Baltimore

www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-ci-freddie-gray-shooting-surge-20150508-story.html


Incidently, I believe the correct number of blacks shot and killed was six.
You did not read about them.
I am the first to say, no black person should be injured or die in police custody due to mistreatment, but the community as a whole must deal with the overwhelmingly bigger crime of blacks killing blacks.

[Opti]

May 11, 2015 18:32:45 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

May 11, 2015 18:30:13 GMT -5 Opti said:

I think its  a trick post.  Protest does not always go smoothly nor does doing nothing really save more lives if you feel you are at risk. I believe some of Ghandi's followers got killed in some of the protests but eventually India became free of British rule.

Okay, let me simplify the question.
How many black Americans were killed in Baltimore for the ten day period starting with the protest day, that were not protesting?

That's a red herring. Its like saying I can not protest women getting raped by cops during traffic stops because there are more rapes happening everyday happening caused by other people. Its crazy.

 

Red and purple striped herring. How many white people were killed in Baltimore for that 10 day period? Why would this matter at all, if one was concerned about dying or being seriously injured in police custody?

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Three shootings Saturday night. One dead. No cops involved. Just more black on black violence in Baltimore.

[Deleted]

May 11, 2015 19:08:01 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

Three shootings Saturday night. One dead. No cops involved. Just more black on black violence in Baltimore.

Thursday and Sunday were worse.  Each had 10 shootings and 3 deaths, not sure of the racial make up. 

www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-ci-shootings-homicides-20150511-story.html

"At least 87 people have been killed in Baltimore this year, 22 more than at this time last year. Nonfatal shootings are up nearly 50 percent across the city. "


As far as the case goes.  I think there is a good chance the cops get off, if their defence can get the venue changed.

[EVT1]

May 11, 2015 18:09:15 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

May 11, 2015 12:20:54 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

The knife is pretty much irrelevant for the serious charges anyway- I doubt the bad arrest part of it is going to stick.

Yes, but two of the police that were arrested were arrested for arresting him on a charge of an illegal knife.

If it was illegal in Baltimore they should not have been charged. 

If.....I find it hard to believe that this lady didn't do her homework before making such a charge- especially since the police have some leeway on it. 

The bigger picture is that eye contact with a cop and running away led to the death of a person in the custody of police- no one seems to have a problem with that though- running the guy down with no evidence of any crime being committed.

[Tennesseer]

Thank goodness there is no white on white violence.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 11, 2015 17:45:02 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 11, 2015 17:09:02 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

... I've delved into it somewhat- and it is not all that clear that the knife was "perfectly legal".  It was apparently an illegal switchblade. ...

For her part, Baltimore State’s Attorney Marilyn Mosby has said that Gray’s knife was legal. Maryland and Baltimore law prohibit “automatic” knives such as switchblades; Gray’s knife was described by police as ...

Officer Edward Nero, who helped capture the fleeing Gray, filed motions on Monday for prosecutors to present the knife for inspection. He argues that it is illegal, ... Up to this point, prosecutors have declined demands from The Associated Press to release pictures of the knife. news.yahoo.com/freddie-grays-knife-says-police-power-america-195923463.html

What confuses me is how any of us can make a call on a knife we have not seen. The police say it illegal and the prosecutor says it is legal. The police have a very good reason to say it illegal. The prosecutor didn't really have a good reason to say it was legal in the first place (but does to continue to hold that position).  My position on the issue:

I'm not making the call- I'm reading what the police are claiming. The prosecutor's motives are clear: she is trying to quell the mob by taking the anti-police position in no small part because her husband is a local politician, and she got the job in large part due to her financial connection to the Gray family attorney.  Huge problems with this case. Huge.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

I thought she was already on thin ice. She's done. She's out. There's NO WAY this woman remains the prosecutor.

www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/05/01/baltimore-prosecutor-received-campaign-money-from-freddie-grays-family-attorney/

The Fraternal Order of Police lodge in Baltimore City is asking for Baltimore State’s Attorney Marilyn Mosby to remove herself from the Freddie Gray investigation and appoint a special prosecutor. On Friday, Mosby announced she was filing charges against six officers in the death of Freddie Gray.

According to Capital Gazette, the president of the Fraternal Order of Police lodge argues she has a personal conflict due to connections with both Freddie Gray’s attorney Bill Murphy and her husband, City Councilman Nick Mosby.

Attorney and former judge William (Bill) H. Murphy, Jr. represents the Gray family.

Murphy was also a supporter and donated to Mosby’s campaign when she ran for office. According to state filing records, Murphy donated $5,000 dollars to Marilyn Mosby’s campaign.

Maryland Defense Attorney Kush Arora told Breitbart News, “I don’t think it does,” when questioned as to whether or not the campaign donation should require Mosby to appoint a special prosecutor.
“This prosecutor has the ability to remain impartial. A special prosecutor is not held accountable to the voters. The state’s attorney is elected and therefore is,” Arora said.