mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Apr 21, 2015 13:22:41 GMT -5
Good to know.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 21, 2015 13:29:36 GMT -5
minnesotapaintlady What if you ventured out to the Google and searched for "How to tell Children about Hell" You aren't the only parent who has had to deal with this. I'd go into reading the links that look OK with a grain of salt and the idea that I was 'collect information' versus looking 'for what to do' to make it easier to sort thru it all. There's probably a lot of ambiguous religious 'speak' in these links (I'm NOT being snarky) - but you'll find themes and ideas that may help you. I'm maybe even see if I could find an Atheist or Secular Humanist or Unitarian Universalist site (or maybe even a Jewish or Buddhist site) that discusses this issue. Not that you are any of those - but their responses to the Heaven/Hell issue and even Good/Evil issue to this will usually strip out the ambiguous religious phrasing which might make it more useful. I have had some books in my Amazon saved items for a long time in prep for what I knew would be coming eventually so may have to move them to the cart. I do have one book at home that is at his level that talks about all the different religions and what they believe, but even it doesn't mention Hell. Amazon books is just going to love you to bits when your son begins puberty.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 21, 2015 13:34:20 GMT -5
What is wrong with believing in Hell btw? What's wrong with it? Might as well tell a child that he shouldn't cross bridges because trolls live under there. That he shouldn't go into lakes because monsters live in the water. That if he steps on a crack, his mother's spine will snap in two.
Wait...what? Monsters don't live in lake waters I suppose you are now going to tell me poop-eating ogres don't live at the bottom of pit toilets too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 13:41:50 GMT -5
Honestly I would be so concerned with him being around that guy I might try to get the court to not let him go there. All the stuff he has done would scare the crap out of me, sounds very unstable and little kids are so impressionable.
He's been doing very well for a long time. Visitation has been ratcheting up for about a year now. From none, to supervised to short unsupervised to now he gets him for 7 hours every other Saturday and every Wednesday for 2 hours. Really, it's been very uneventful. Apparently even sold the motor home and boat, so thinking more sanely lately. He's moving though, so some upheaval coming. Gave notice for the end of May and still doesn't have a place lined up. He tried convincing me renting out my basement would be the ideal option for everyone, but I respectfully disagreed and held firm to the no. If he moves close to where he works, visitation might be more of a hassle, as right now I do all drop off and pick up, but we'll figure something out. Maybe meet halfway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 13:42:32 GMT -5
I suppose you are now going to tell me poop-eating ogres don't live at the bottom of pit toilets too. No. Those are real.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Apr 21, 2015 13:44:02 GMT -5
Honestly I would be so concerned with him being around that guy I might try to get the court to not let him go there. All the stuff he has done would scare the crap out of me, sounds very unstable and little kids are so impressionable.
He's been doing very well for a long time. Visitation has been ratcheting up for about a year now. From none, to supervised to short unsupervised to now he gets him for 7 hours every other Saturday and every Wednesday for 2 hours. Really, it's been very uneventful. Apparently even sold the motor home and boat, so thinking more sanely lately. He's moving though, so some upheaval coming. Gave notice for the end of May and still doesn't have a place lined up. He tried convincing me renting out my basement would be the ideal option for everyone, but I respectfully disagreed and held firm to the no. If he moves close to where he works, visitation might be more of a hassle, as right now I do all drop off and pick up, but we'll figure something out. Maybe meet halfway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 13:47:28 GMT -5
He's been doing very well for a long time. Visitation has been ratcheting up for about a year now. From none, to supervised to short unsupervised to now he gets him for 7 hours every other Saturday and every Wednesday for 2 hours. Really, it's been very uneventful. Apparently even sold the motor home and boat, so thinking more sanely lately. He's moving though, so some upheaval coming. Gave notice for the end of May and still doesn't have a place lined up. He tried convincing me renting out my basement would be the ideal option for everyone, but I respectfully disagreed and held firm to the no. If he moves close to where he works, visitation might be more of a hassle, as right now I do all drop off and pick up, but we'll figure something out. Maybe meet halfway. Ok, he maybe not thinking totally sanely. But it's surprising how hard it is for me to argue with his logic sometimes.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 21, 2015 13:50:30 GMT -5
I suppose you are now going to tell me poop-eating ogres don't live at the bottom of pit toilets too. No. Those are real. I KNEW IT!!!!!
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Apr 21, 2015 13:52:33 GMT -5
My nephew was sent to Sunday School at about 4 and they taught him about burning in hell. He got night mares for a long time even after they took him out. Hell is really strange concept because good people are sent to hell for not believing and bad people go to heaven for repenting on their deathbed. Nobody who has children or grand children on Facebook ever went to hell. I keep seeing post about I miss my loved one in heaven but never see any saying they miss the parent looking up at them from hell because they didn't believe in Jesus and repent their sins.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 13:54:07 GMT -5
My nephew was sent to Sunday School at about 4 and they taught him about burning in hell. He got night mares for a long time even after they took him out. Hell is really strange concept because good people are sent to hell for not believing and bad people go to heaven for repenting on their deathbed. Nobody who has children or grand children on Facebook ever went to hell. I keep seeing post about I miss my loved one in heaven but never see any saying they miss the parent looking up at them from hell because they didn't believe in Jesus and repent their sins. LOL
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Apr 21, 2015 14:13:49 GMT -5
Ok, he maybe not thinking totally sanely. But it's surprising how hard it is for me to argue with his logic sometimes. Keep reminding yourself that his logic and sanity are occasional things. Becoming more of a regular pattern, one would hope. But this is a man who did, and could be capable of, hurting you again. Think of Angel!'s XH, who tries whatever to worm his way back in. Abusers can be very kind, gentle and persuasive when the want/need arises. It can also go away at the slightest provocation. Not trying to encourage or scare you. You know best in your own situation.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 21, 2015 14:16:15 GMT -5
Good to know. Tell him that you can, however, melt your legos into plastic goo by pressing a lego wheel-and-axle against the flywheel of an exercise bike for a few seconds. This is all hypothetical, of course.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Apr 21, 2015 14:23:56 GMT -5
Good to know. Tell him that you can, however, melt your legos into plastic goo by pressing a lego wheel-and-axle against the flywheel of an exercise bike for a few seconds. This is all hypothetical, of course.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 21, 2015 14:24:21 GMT -5
My nephew was sent to Sunday School at about 4 and they taught him about burning in hell. He got night mares for a long time even after they took him out. Hell is really strange concept because good people are sent to hell for not believing and bad people go to heaven for repenting on their deathbed. Nobody who has children or grand children on Facebook ever went to hell. I keep seeing post about I miss my loved one in heaven but never see any saying they miss the parent looking up at them from hell because they didn't believe in Jesus and repent their sins. LOL This isn't unusual though. When you describe something to a child that age, particularly if it's an abstract concept, it becomes very literal to them. I remember being about that age and living on FL during a hurricane. On the news, the report said that the eye of the hurricane was going to come in from the south. I remember asking mom which direction is south, and her pointing to a big picture window in the LR. I was convinced that the eye of the hurricane was a huge eyeball that was going to be looking through that window, and refused to even go into the LR. I laugh about it now, but 50 years later remember how terrified I was of it at the time. A lot of life is abstract, and hell is most certainly an abstract concept. At MPL's son's age, he is going to take everything said literally The question is.....do you really want to introduce a 4 year old to his father's version of Dante's Inferno?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 21, 2015 16:21:55 GMT -5
Listen, I was raised Baptist and was told GOD sees everything you do. I hid in a closet to change clothes because I didn't want GOD to see me naked. I also was told that GOD would strike me blind if I were vain, so try brushing your hair while taking quick glances in the mirror! Kids, some kids anyway, take things very literally. I have a very high IQ and I still believed that drivel when I was young. Someone needs to step in and tell the child that a LOVING GOD, just like a LOVING PERSON, would not say or do anything to hurt a child. That does not say that YOU believe in GOD but that the GOD some people believe in would never ever harm a child or condemn them to hell.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 21, 2015 16:26:59 GMT -5
This isn't unusual though. When you describe something to a child that age, particularly if it's an abstract concept, it becomes very literal to them. I remember being about that age and living on FL during a hurricane. On the news, the report said that the eye of the hurricane was going to come in from the south. I remember asking mom which direction is south, and her pointing to a big picture window in the LR. I was convinced that the eye of the hurricane was a huge eyeball that was going to be looking through that window, and refused to even go into the LR. I laugh about it now, but 50 years later remember how terrified I was of it at the time. A lot of life is abstract, and hell is most certainly an abstract concept. At MPL's son's age, he is going to take everything said literally The question is.....do you really want to introduce a 4 year old to his father's version of Dante's Inferno? When I was five or so, I was hit and run over by a car. After the accident and for a few years after, I had a recurring dream: It started with me looking out a window at night and seeing a very big moon smiling at me. No matter what direction I looked out of any of the house windows, north, south, east or west, there was the big moon smiling at me. All of a sudden, a witch on her broomstick would pick me up and then drop me in the middle of the road at which time a fire truck would be bearing down on me. I always woke up before the fire truck hit me. I imagine there are bits and pieces of reality in the dream. I cannot account for the big, smiling moon, but the witch probably had something to do with me having watched the Wizard of Oz and the fire truck would have been the ambulance arriving to the scene where I was hit by a car. That dream scared me each time it occurred. No Hell though in the dream.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 21, 2015 16:28:42 GMT -5
Yikes. Not even my dream and I'm freaked out.
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Robert not Bobby
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Post by Robert not Bobby on Apr 21, 2015 16:31:02 GMT -5
Anyhow. I'm using the 24 hour cool off and think about this before reacting strategy. ___________________________________________________________________________ I'm thinking, you are using your mind. Never react immediately, when you may say something stupid that isn't quite yourself. Still, don't over think it and don't let too much time lapse...he was wrong and you should tell him...and why. To me one of the big whys is your sons age...way too young to hear that kind of stuff...but we are all different.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 21, 2015 16:46:33 GMT -5
Yikes. Not even my dream and I'm freaked out. Many years later, I added that evil moon into a painting. It is now trapped in the painting never to come forth again.
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luckyme
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Post by luckyme on Apr 21, 2015 17:52:05 GMT -5
I am surprised at how many fully believe there is no hell, but then I guess many don't believe in heaven either.
I get not wanting to frighten a child about hell, but it is only your "belief" there isn't one just as many believe there is, as there is a heaven, the yin and the yang.
IF you are truly frightened of your ex being around your child, I certainly hope you are doing everything in your power to terminate parental rights. You will have a very hard time. If it is difficult now at 4, the teen years are going to be horrendous.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Apr 21, 2015 18:10:59 GMT -5
I am surprised at how many fully believe there is no hell, but then I guess many don't believe in heaven either. On the flip side, I'm astounded at the number of people that believe in heaven and/or hell.
I think once you really get your personal beliefs squared away, then anything outside of those beliefs just seems bizarre & it can be difficult to comprehend why others would believe something different from you. It is amazing that we can all look at the same world & come up with different answers & all be convinced we are right.
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luckyme
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Post by luckyme on Apr 21, 2015 18:28:11 GMT -5
I am surprised at how many fully believe there is no hell, but then I guess many don't believe in heaven either. On the flip side, I'm astounded at the number of people that believe in heaven and/or hell.
I think once you really get your personal beliefs squared away, then anything outside of those beliefs just seems bizarre & it can be difficult to comprehend why others would believe something different from you. It is amazing that we can all look at the same world & come up with different answers & all be convinced we are right.
That is very true. And isn't that the cruz of this thread. Both parents are fully engaged in "their" views where there child is concerned. Tough on the kid.
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techguy
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Post by techguy on Apr 21, 2015 18:29:38 GMT -5
Wait... is hell real or not?
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Apr 21, 2015 18:35:12 GMT -5
On the flip side, I'm astounded at the number of people that believe in heaven and/or hell.
I think once you really get your personal beliefs squared away, then anything outside of those beliefs just seems bizarre & it can be difficult to comprehend why others would believe something different from you. It is amazing that we can all look at the same world & come up with different answers & all be convinced we are right.
That is very true. And isn't that the cruz of this thread. Both parents are fully engaged in "their" views where there child is concerned. Tough on the kid. I disagree. Sounds like one parent is worried because it is not an appropriate subject for a 4 yo, while the other parent is a bit unstable, delusional at least occasionally, and has been abusive in the past. As I mentioned previously, the subject of hell is ripe for manipulation and control, which is a tool used by abusers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 18:49:35 GMT -5
That is very true. And isn't that the cruz of this thread. Both parents are fully engaged in "their" views where there child is concerned. Tough on the kid. I disagree. Sounds like one parent is worried because it is not an appropriate subject for a 4 yo, while the other parent is a bit unstable, delusional at least occasionally, and has been abusive in the past. As I mentioned previously, the subject of hell is ripe for manipulation and control, which is a tool used by abusers. I am not opposed to him learning about Christianity or even Hell. But even me, as an adult, was manipulated emotionally by him and his damnation thoughts. Not so much that I was afraid I was going to hell, but catering to his fears about it. I'm not sure I explained that right. Living up to his expectations for a family not going to hell? Feeling responsible for him feeling he was going to hell? Oh the hell with it. I just don't think a 4 year old needs to hear this even being raised a Christian.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 18:54:31 GMT -5
I am surprised at how many fully believe there is no hell, but then I guess many don't believe in heaven either. On the flip side, I'm astounded at the number of people that believe in heaven and/or hell.
I think once you really get your personal beliefs squared away, then anything outside of those beliefs just seems bizarre & it can be difficult to comprehend why others would believe something different from you. It is amazing that we can all look at the same world & come up with different answers & all be convinced we are right.
I really tried, I was raised in a Christian family, but even back when I was a kid it didn't make sense. I attended RCIA as an adult and was confirmed in the Catholic Church, but after a few years I realized I wasn't being true to myself and if there was a God, not being honest with him (her?) either. I do envy some people of strong faith because it seems to get them through a lot and provides comfort when loved ones pass, but I just...can't.
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goldensam
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Post by goldensam on Apr 21, 2015 19:01:44 GMT -5
I was raised in what I now believe to be a very radical form of Christianity where I was mostly taught about a jealous, vengeful god rather than a loving one. For as long as I can remember, I've been threatened with hell and eternal burning. I have memories going back to early elementary school where I was told in graphic detail how my body would burn and I would be tortured if I were sent to hell. To this day, my grandmother will text and call me to tell me how sad it is that I will be going to hell because I live a "sinful" life. (I don't go to church, I'm an atheist, I live with my partner and haven't married him, I don't tithe, you name it.)
We were told all about demons and I remember being terrified that they were all around. If we had a bad dream that was also caused by demons. We then had to pray them away.
Meanwhile, all these people preaching at us were either physically, emotionally, or sexually abusive to my sisters and me. Or allowed others to be.
So yes, I completely understand your reaction.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 21, 2015 19:19:28 GMT -5
DH doesn't believe in hell. I'm sure he finds that very convenient. I like to tease him about that. But he's a very good person so I don't think he'll rot in it anyway.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Apr 21, 2015 19:49:06 GMT -5
Truthfully, I'm Christian and I don't believe that hell is burning fires of damnation...for most people. I believe for most people it is hell is the eternal separation from God's love. If you don't believe in that, then you don't believe you are missing anything and I can completely believe people don't believe in hell. I believe that heaven is beyond our understanding. So given my beliefs I would be pissed as hell at someone for someone talking to my kids about hell. It drives me crazy people who tell others they are going to hell and worse teaching their kids those thoughts. One of nieces told another one that she was going to hell for being Catholic (and not baptist). They are 10. My former boss's daughter was told by her cousin at 12 that she was going to hell for celebrating Halloween.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Apr 21, 2015 20:52:12 GMT -5
Listen, I was raised Baptist and was told GOD sees everything you do. I hid in a closet to change clothes because I didn't want GOD to see me naked. I also was told that GOD would strike me blind if I were vain, so try brushing your hair while taking quick glances in the mirror! Kids, some kids anyway, take things very literally. I have a very high IQ and I still believed that drivel when I was young. Someone needs to step in and tell the child that a LOVING GOD, just like a LOVING PERSON, would not say or do anything to hurt a child. That does not say that YOU believe in GOD but that the GOD some people believe in would never ever harm a child or condemn them to hell. I was told that Jesus is always with me. From that point on, I never finished a meal...half of it was for Jesus. I sat on the very far edge of the chair...the rest of the seat was for Jesus. I spent nights curled up against the wall because the rest of my bed was for Jesus. It was a PITA, frankly.
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