Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Apr 14, 2015 10:43:13 GMT -5
My ex stole $119 out of my HSA account. Stole probably isn't the right word because I long ago forgot he was on the account, so I don't know that he legally stole anything. I hadn't been worried about it because he didn't have the card or a clue how to access it and then just forgot about it completely. They sent new cards a few weeks back & the lovely post office forwarded his off to him with out me ever seeing it. And he used it.
I cancelled his card & took him off the account. But now what? I am so freaking angry right now. I know it is my fault for being a dumbass, but over & over he gets to do shit like this to hurt me & I just keep walking away. I haven't said anything to him at all, regarding this or anything. I keep thinking of what to do or if I should do anything & I just don't know. So I need rational people at a distance from the situation to tell me what to do. Some options include:
1) Just continue ignoring him. Consider it a lesson learned & just move on
2) Ask for the money back. Probably won't work, but at least then he will know I know. I'm not sure how this helps anything. But, it bothers me to be so angry & not even yelling at him for it.
3) File for CS garnishment. He is supposed to be paying $50/month. I haven't done this because it seemed like more trouble than it was worth & if he is working now it is under the table. I haven't like the idea of the CS being a constant reminder of me & the kids & more reason to harass. But, then why worry about this when he feels free to harass & steal without the CS. It just seemed it would be easier forget about us without the CS. But, eventually I would likely get my money back this way + more.
4) #3 and revise the CS order. At a minimum it should be $90/month now. If I can somehow get it assumed that he makes more than $1350/month, then it will be somewhere in the range of 1/3 to 1/2 his income. He has to be above that threshold for it to go above $90, but when it goes above $90/month, there is a massive jump
5) Get full custody of DS2. This is kind of a side issue, but one I probably need to deal with at some point. There is no actually custody agreement on him. I was pregnant when I got full custody & they won't include an unborn kid. I haven't been majorly concerned because the kid wouldn't recognize him & he isn't on any daycare paperwork as the father. Plus, he has a warrant in this state. So he can't just go pick up DS2. But, I've been worried about rocking the boat on this. What if he fights? At this moment I am 99% certain he doesn't even realize there is no custody agreement on DS2, so filing for it will make him aware of this.
6) Try to get his parental rights relinquished. I didn't think this was an option, but did some reading last night & apparently mine is one of the few states where you don't need someone else to adopt the kids in order to relinquish the rights of a parent. But, it has to be done with both parents in agreement that this is best for the kid. I would obviously have to get a lawyer & see if this is really possible. But, I give it 50/50 he would just say "yep, I give up my parental rights". That is why I got full custody so easily the first time around. He walked into the custody hearing & told the judge he wanted to give up his parental rights. Judge said that isn't what the hearing is for, but then said given that statement, he will give me full custody.
The list is basically in increasing order of how much work & how much money it will cost me on my end, but also in order or increasing payoff if it works out. But, the list is also in increasing order of how much this could blow up in my face because now I've pissed off a crazy person I don't want in my life any longer. Suppose he fights and somehow manages to convince a judge we should have shared custody or something. So from a distant, less emotional perspective what should I do?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 14, 2015 10:50:02 GMT -5
I would consider the HSA a lesson learned. He's off the account and can't use it anymore. If you call him demanding the money back he'll know money is a hot button for you. He can use this to try to manipulate you and punish you from afar. Especially if you stopped jumping in regards to the kids, he needs a new stick to keep you on a leash. As for the others I have no idea. Just hugs. Good luck sorting everything out.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Apr 14, 2015 10:57:10 GMT -5
Truthfully I'd work towards terminating parental rights. This doesn't mean that you never let him see the kids or vice versa, but you get to call all the shots. I'd write the money off. The HSA and the child support. Unless he really turns his life around I don't think you'll ever see that money.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Apr 14, 2015 10:57:30 GMT -5
I'm really confused... there is a lot of competing issues here. The use of the HSA should not be compounded by an idea of getting full custody of your children. There are two separate issues.
To answer the original question and not the list of choices... can you call your HSA and explain that an unauthorized person used your card? Or say it was an unauthorized transaction? Get it reversed?
Otherwise.... 1. All those other issues and topics are separate.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 11:03:49 GMT -5
I'm really confused... there is a lot of competing issues here. The use of the HSA should not be compounded by an idea of getting full custody of your children. There are two separate issues. To answer the original question and not the list of choices... can you call your HSA and explain that an unauthorized person used your card? Or say it was an unauthorized transaction? Get it reversed? Otherwise.... 1. All those other issues and topics are separate. I think the HSA use was just a trigger to a "GOD, HOW DO I GET THIS GUY OUT OF MY LIFE?!" train of thought. I totally get it.
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milee
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Post by milee on Apr 14, 2015 11:04:27 GMT -5
Ack - don't re-engage with him over $119. Or even over a slight increase in theoretical child support. You know not only will he fight that tooth and nail, but you'll never see that $$$ anyway and it will just be one more thing that ties you together and keeps him engaged and involved.
Disengage, disengage, disengage.
Talk to a lawyer about the best way to go about getting parental rights relinquished and full custody of DS 2. Given that X is out of state and has outstanding warrants - something I'd tell the lawyer about - it may be better to do this now or it may be better to wait.
Oh, and stop letting him control you. Once again, something he does causes your reaction. No, it's not fair and yes, it's wrong, but he is an ass and will continue to do these things forever and your reactions just prolong and encourage it. Keep working on ignoring, setting boundaries and playing your game, not reacting and playing defense to whatever he does.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Apr 14, 2015 11:05:30 GMT -5
I'm really confused... there is a lot of competing issues here. The use of the HSA should not be compounded by an idea of getting full custody of your children. There are two separate issues. To answer the original question and not the list of choices... can you call your HSA and explain that an unauthorized person used your card? Or say it was an unauthorized transaction? Get it reversed? Otherwise.... 1. All those other issues and topics are separate. I think the HSA use was just a trigger to a "GOD, HOW DO I GET THIS GUY OUT OF MY LIFE?!" train of thought. I totally get it. I get it. I do. But you should make financial decisions when you're pissed off and let emotions drive you over the cliff.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 11:09:37 GMT -5
I think the HSA use was just a trigger to a "GOD, HOW DO I GET THIS GUY OUT OF MY LIFE?!" train of thought. I totally get it. I get it. I do. But you should make financial decisions when you're pissed off and let emotions drive you over the cliff. But, she's venting here first for support and talking her down. Her first option on her list is continue to ignore. I've had lists that have gone all the way up to felony status.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Apr 14, 2015 11:14:37 GMT -5
Ack - don't re-engage with him over $119. Or even over a slight increase in theoretical child support. You know not only will he fight that tooth and nail, but you'll never see that $$$ anyway and it will just be one more thing that ties you together and keeps him engaged and involved.
Disengage, disengage, disengage.
Talk to a lawyer about the best way to go about getting parental rights relinquished and full custody of DS 2. Given that X is out of state and has outstanding warrants - something I'd tell the lawyer about - it may be better to do this now or it may be better to wait.
Oh, and stop letting him control you. Once again, something he does causes your reaction. No, it's not fair and yes, it's wrong, but he is an ass and will continue to do these things forever and your reactions just prolong and encourage it. Keep working on ignoring, setting boundaries and playing your game, not reacting and playing defense to whatever he does. To be fair, she's reacting HERE not to him where he can see it. As long as she keeps the reaction out of his sight I think she is on track at the very least to not letting him have control. I'd be mad and want to cuss him too as a first reaction. At least she didn't call him and do just that. Angel, I'd ignore him and get a little satisfaction of knowing he'll be all kinds of ticked/embarrassed (maybe) when the card doesn't work next time. And then work on getting full custody.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Apr 14, 2015 11:16:30 GMT -5
I don't think this is an issue you want to open up. You could end up in the situation of the daughter of a friend. The daughter decided to divorce her lazy, deadbeat, do nothing husband. Since the husband hadn't worked in years, he claimed that he would have more time to devote to the kids than a working single Mom. The husband got primary custody, plus child support. Just because he had chosen not to work to support his family because his wife was carrying all the load.
As much as you'd like to take legal action to get even with this guy, it's likely that the legal fees would cost you much more than you'd ever recover from the father.
Just consider the loss of the HSA money a lesson learned and let the rest of the sleeping dogs lie.
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milee
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Post by milee on Apr 14, 2015 11:17:46 GMT -5
BTW, once again, this is not about the issues you're listing.
What it boils down to is X is once again doing something to provoke your reaction, so he can re-engage and keep the relationship going. The only way you break this cycle is to set the boundaries that limit how much he can hurt you (and one of those boundaries is you being sure he's off all accounts), decide not to re-engage and then stick to it no matter what he does.
If you ignore this, he'll do something else to try to get your attention. It will probably be in connection with talking to the kids. If you can manage to ignore that and maybe one or two more attempts, you'll be well on the way to training him by extinguishing his behavior. But each time you slip and re-engage by yelling at him or even talking to him, you go back to square one and have to restart the process.
You've got toddlers, so you know about tantrums. This is the adult version of the tantrum. The sooner you are consistent with ignoring it, the quicker he'll stop getting a payoff and stop bothering with the tantrum. But each time you give him what he wants (a response/discussion) you send the message that a tantrum is a great way to get what he wants.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Apr 14, 2015 11:24:06 GMT -5
Let it go. From a mom with a POS ex, trust me, it's not worth it. He will know that he got a rise out of you and will just start with harassing you again. The card being canceled will let him know that you know. It may even make him want to avoid you so you don't ask for the money back. It's hard, but it's better for you in the end.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 11:25:20 GMT -5
Has he been calling lately?
I'd probably take a week or two to breathe and calm down and then talk to an attorney about what your options are with youngest. I'd want him included on that original custody agreement that pretty much excludes him from any parenting. It would probably be rather simple to do. Being that he's not going to risk getting arrested to come back to state and the way he's behaved before I doubt he'd fight it. But, you are right in that he probably isn't aware he's not included now anyhow. An attorney could tell you what the risk level would be.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Apr 14, 2015 11:28:27 GMT -5
Totally off the wall comment, but have you given thought to any other things you forgot to take care of in divorce? Will, changing beneficiary, bank accounts, who can pick up kiddos if in school/daycare and all the little things a lot of people forget about? As for the other, I can't offer any suggestions because everyone reacts differently to things. I just know what I would do and it doesn't help you at all. Sorry you are going thru this though.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Apr 14, 2015 11:36:55 GMT -5
BTW, once again, this is not about the issues you're listing.
What it boils down to is X is once again doing something to provoke your reaction, so he can re-engage and keep the relationship going. The only way you break this cycle is to set the boundaries that limit how much he can hurt you (and one of those boundaries is you being sure he's off all accounts), decide not to re-engage and then stick to it no matter what he does.
If you ignore this, he'll do something else to try to get your attention. It will probably be in connection with talking to the kids. If you can manage to ignore that and maybe one or two more attempts, you'll be well on the way to training him by extinguishing his behavior. But each time you slip and re-engage by yelling at him or even talking to him, you go back to square one and have to restart the process.
You've got toddlers, so you know about tantrums. This is the adult version of the tantrum. The sooner you are consistent with ignoring it, the quicker he'll stop getting a payoff and stop bothering with the tantrum. But each time you give him what he wants (a response/discussion) you send the message that a tantrum is a great way to get what he wants. My ex wasn't quite so crazy but not letting him have a reaction from me was the best thing I ever did.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Apr 14, 2015 11:43:08 GMT -5
I should have asked for more CS when I was unemployed but didn't want Baby Daddy to try and come around my girls and turn their lives upside down and leave again. The girls don't feel safe with him and would usually leave visits with him in tears because he would treat them like crap. I decided it was better to be poor than put them through that. He has stayed away for over a year now and I didn't want to rock the boat. It sucked, but it was better for everyone in the long run.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 11:51:15 GMT -5
I say do nothing right now, because you're so angry. I come up with some pretty clever stuff sometimes when I'm angry, but when I calm down, I'm usually glad I didn't follow through. Any move you make concerning your ex needs to be something you've carefully considered, with thought to how wiggly those worms are likely to be when you open the can. It's hard to do that when you're in a rage.
So just chill out until you calm down. Just my opinion.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Apr 14, 2015 12:04:17 GMT -5
I want to so many comments here. First, I think it's great that you're venting and seeking input here rather than responding to X when you're mad (and I am pissed off just reading the OP, so I can't even imagine how you feel). Who knows whether he did it purposely to get a rise out of you or just saw the opportunity and took it, but either way, your silence and lack of reaction is exactly the opposite of what he wants/expects. As far as how to proceed... I'm with Pink that whatever happens needs to be carefully thought out and considered after you've gotten over the HSA issue (and hopefully he doesn't do anything else too stupid/infuriating in the meantime). If your state doesn't require a new adoptive parent in order to terminate someone's parental rights, I'd seriously be leaning toward #6, especially if there's a good chance you could get it before the same judge (I don't know how big your county is). My rationale is that the other ideas -- child support and custody modifications -- are just stepping stones to what it sounds like you and your kids really need, which is for him to be gone for good. It might be worthwhile to make an appointment with an attorney and see whether this is feasible.
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whoami
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Post by whoami on Apr 14, 2015 12:11:33 GMT -5
I always kept stuff like this "up my sleeve" for when I really needed ex to do something and he gave me a hard time.
He learned pretty quick not to call my bluff. Withholding $800 from me ultimately cost him between $35-$40K.
I need a document signed in the next month and Im anticipating him giving me a hard time. It requires nothing more than a signature but he likes to whine. I will again remind him I have enough time and money to make his life difficult and even if I dont win in court, it will still cost him money to answer a lawsuit regardless of merit. His choice.
I suspect when its all said and done, Ill get my signature.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Apr 14, 2015 12:18:50 GMT -5
Report the unauthorized HSA withdrawal to your HSA administrator. You do not want even this relatively small amount coming back to bite you at tax time next year. Don't engage the SOB; it's exactly what he wants. And he knows he can if it's about the kids or money.
As was suggested, review all your paperwork, all your bank stuff and all your personal info. Make sure he is really off and gone from everything and has access to nothing.
I'm leaning towards #6, just to get rid of him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 12:25:13 GMT -5
First, I think it's great that you're venting and seeking input here rather than responding to X when you're mad ( and I am pissed off just reading the OP, so I can't even imagine how you feel). Who knows whether he did it purposely to get a rise out of you or just saw the opportunity and took it, but either way, your silence and lack of reaction is exactly the opposite of what he wants/expects. I know! I was like WTH?!? I seriously do not understand where people get the balls to do something like this. I mean, he's basically stealing money from his kids that he's not helping support. But, I also agree. Hard to tell what his thought process My ex texted me yesterday wanting DS's SS number. He was doing his taxes and claims he needed it to "enter the child support he'd paid". Now, either he was just clueless about that part or he really was trying to pull a fast one to get out of the big mess he made by liquidating his retirement accounts last year. I'm really not sure.
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Apr 14, 2015 12:29:09 GMT -5
Even with the card, was he still on your HSA? Is you divorce final? Is he still covered by your benefits?
The reason I ask is because it is entirely possible that his access was the result of mistakes made by the HSA and/or your Benefits Admin. If so, they owe you reimbursement and it is their job to go after him.
I recently had a situation occur where one of my accounts was slammed by the State of California from on behalf of my deceased father. It turned out that the bank had never removed his social security number from the account after his 12/22/13 death and therefore the money did not belong to him. The bank was able the to stop the withdrawl, remove his information, and then return the money to my account. I transferred all monies elsewhere and closed that account ASAP. I also checked to make sure all other accounts were closed, as was recommended above.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Apr 14, 2015 12:46:13 GMT -5
First, I think it's great that you're venting and seeking input here rather than responding to X when you're mad ( and I am pissed off just reading the OP, so I can't even imagine how you feel). Who knows whether he did it purposely to get a rise out of you or just saw the opportunity and took it, but either way, your silence and lack of reaction is exactly the opposite of what he wants/expects. I know! I was like WTH?!? I seriously do not understand where people get the balls to do something like this. I mean, he's basically stealing money from his kids that he's not helping support. But, I also agree. Hard to tell what his thought process My ex texted me yesterday wanting DS's SS number. He was doing his taxes and claims he needed it to "enter the child support he'd paid". Now, either he was just clueless about that part or he really was trying to pull a fast one to get out of the big mess he made by liquidating his retirement accounts last year. I'm really not sure. I thought CS was neither taxable nor deductible. Did you give it to him?
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Apr 14, 2015 12:49:46 GMT -5
It never ceases to amaze me how much people will do out of spite and how much some have put up with to keep the peace. He doesn't support his children, yet takes from a fund set up for their care.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 12:57:21 GMT -5
I thought CS was neither taxable nor deductible. Did you give it to him? It's not and I knew it wasn't, but I called first ex to confirm he never had to do anything with the child support, then relayed the info. I didn't give him the number and he thanked me for "clearing that up", but part of me wonders if he was thinking "shoot, she caught me". I don't know. He really is clueless about financials and this is the first time he's done his taxes in 9 years and they're probably a mess...so it may have not been nefarious. Coworkers were telling me I should have just gave it to him because it would have flagged his return if he tried to use DS as a dependent since I filed back in January, but I didn't want to race him every year because of that, even though I'm told once he's flagged as using a SS number fraudulently, it continues to flag every year that one comes up. Not sure on that one though.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Apr 14, 2015 13:12:54 GMT -5
I thought CS was neither taxable nor deductible. Did you give it to him? It's not and I knew it wasn't, but I called first ex to confirm he never had to do anything with the child support, then relayed the info. I didn't give him the number and he thanked me for "clearing that up", but part of me wonders if he was thinking "shoot, she caught me". I don't know. He really is clueless about financials and this is the first time he's done his taxes in 9 years and they're probably a mess...so it may have not been nefarious. Coworkers were telling me I should have just gave it to him because it would have flagged his return if he tried to use DS as a dependent since I filed back in January, but I didn't want to race him every year because of that, even though I'm told once he's flagged as using a SS number fraudulently, it continues to flag every year that one comes up. Not sure on that one though. Baby Daddy claimed the girls one year even though they live with me. We both got a letter from the IRS and I don't know if his return was ever taken back but mine wasn't. I don't think he has tried it again, but I don't know.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 14, 2015 13:13:46 GMT -5
I believe Captain has had to deal with identity theft for several years now. It's not an easy mess to clean up once it gets started. I wouldn't have given him the number either. You are right, your co-works are wrong.
A lot of parents destroy their children's credit when they are minors by stealing the kid's identity. Such a rotten thing to do.
Not saying your ex planned to do that, but once he has the number he has the number. Sure his taxes will be flagged but what about everything else that requires an SSN for approval? He could potentially do a lot of damage before you found out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 13:40:56 GMT -5
Baby Daddy claimed the girls one year even though they live with me. We both got a letter from the IRS and I don't know if his return was ever taken back but mine wasn't. I don't think he has tried it again, but I don't know. First ex and I alternate years. The years he claims them he has to submit a form 8832(?) along with his return which is me releasing the dependency status. I have no agreement with second ex. I was kind of just hoping it would never come up...yeah...I know...not the best approach.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 14, 2015 13:52:07 GMT -5
It sucks and it shouldn't have happened. Consider it another lesson learned. Get thee to a lawyer and get his rights terminated. I believe if he comes to court to fight it, he'd get arrested anyway.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Apr 14, 2015 14:21:51 GMT -5
I'm really confused... there is a lot of competing issues here. The use of the HSA should not be compounded by an idea of getting full custody of your children. There are two separate issues. To answer the original question and not the list of choices... can you call your HSA and explain that an unauthorized person used your card? Or say it was an unauthorized transaction? Get it reversed? Otherwise.... 1. All those other issues and topics are separate. I think the HSA use was just a trigger to a "GOD, HOW DO I GET THIS GUY OUT OF MY LIFE?!" train of thought. I totally get it.
I understand custody is a different issue from the HSA. Those options were a combination of getting revenge/getting the money back/getting this asshat the hell out of my life so he can't keep fucking with me & my kids.
And the money's gone. I can't get it back from the HSA. I spent a half an hour talking to them about this & all I can do is what I've done. Now maybe I could take him to small claims court because per our divorce agreement that account & everything in it is mine. But, if it is about money, then I'm way better off getting money from his via CS. At least then there is a whole system setup to track him & garnish paychecks & tax refunds.
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