WWYD - High School Honors Mess

[Deleted]

After the first semester of the school year ended, my friend's son's school made the official announcement that he was the salutatorian for his graduating class. Last week my friend and her husband were summoned to the school to be informed there was a mistake. They'd used unweighted scores when they determined their son's status. Now they have a recently transferred student and with weighted scores, that student gets the honor and their son is 3rd in his class.

My friend is in an uproar. Her son is a great kid and he's been very excited about being salutatorian. She mentioned that he's sent out college applications with that information on them and now it's going to look like he lied. She says the school is not following their own rules and they're catering to the transferred child's mother , who started raising hell about her child being salutatorian.

Today she showed me a letter they gave them last week from the principal, backdated to early March. The letter is about her son's status in the graduating class of 2016. When I saw that, I said no wonder this is a mess, they don't even know these kids are graduating in 2015....

Has anyone ever heard of something like this happening? I think it's very tacky to come with this a month before graduation. What do you think should happen?

[Shooby]

Wow that is a mess. Jeepers.

[cael]

Maybe there should be some cut-off for transfer students for the last semester of senior year when it comes to valedictorian/salutatorian.. what a mess. Poor kid. (the transfer came in this semester I assume?)

[alabamagal]

Well sounds like the school is a mess. 

In the big picture, it is not a big deal.  Being 3rd in the class is still a big accomplishment.  

What is the difference between salutorian and 3rd in class.  Is is just getting to speak at graduation?  In Georgia, the valedectorian and salutorian get a better HOPE scholarship (100% vs 90% tuition).  If there was any tangible difference, I would definitely ask for clarification.

In my kids school, they had rules about certain honors not going to kids who were only at the school for a year or less.  It was a private school.  My son got the STAR student award for highest SAT in his class, even though another girl was higher but only at the school for 12th grade.  I think they had the same rules for valedectorian or salutorian.

Once you get to college, high school doesn't matter.  Move on.

[Deleted]

Apr 12, 2015 20:19:55 GMT -5 cael said:

Maybe there should be some cut-off for transfer students for the last semester of senior year when it comes to valedictorian/salutatorian.. what a mess. Poor kid. (the transfer came in this semester I assume?)

I believe my friend said there is some kind of rule about students that transfer to the school in the middle of the senior.year. she's saying the school isn't following.their own rules.

[milee]

Mostly what alabamagal said.

Also I'd use it as a chance to talk to the kid about how we handle bumps like this. Yes, it's disappointing and yes, it sounds like the school not only made a mistake but then handled it badly, but that does not change how well he did and it does not mean we act like people on the Jerry Springer show. We have a calm discussion with the school, appreciate whatever success we have achieved and then move on. We do not go to war with the school over something like this that really makes no difference in the long term scheme of things.

I'd also talk to the school about how we handle this from a college application standpoint, because it is a legit concern that the colleges might think the son lied on his apps. The school should be able to come up with a solution, but if they couldn't, I'd draft a letter explaining the cause of the error, the dates of the error and the fact that son legitimately believed that he was salutatorian at the time he stated that on the application - and get the school to sign the letter.

As for this being a problem because he wanted to speak at graduation... this is a perfect time to go ahead and put a stop to that torturous tradition anyway. Use it as an excuse to start streamlining the bloated, meaningless, ridiculous ceremonies that drag on for 3-4 hours. Incorporate that and a few more changes to keep the graduation ceremony under one hour and he'll be such a hero, his popularity will soon overshadow any paltry acclaim he would have received as salutatorian.

[cael]

is there a school board or anything she can approach with the problem, if they really aren't following their own rules?

I know high school doesn't matter once you're in college but that would be a big deal to me too, especially if I told colleges I was salutatorian.

[NastyWoman]

The school made an official announcement and should not withdraw that honor after that. If anything they could go with co-salutatorian with some explanation about late transfer, yet we want to recognize as well... Etc. 

[JustLurkin]

Apr 12, 2015 20:19:55 GMT -5 cael said:

Maybe there should be some cut-off for transfer students for the last semester of senior year when it comes to valedictorian/salutatorian.. what a mess. Poor kid. (the transfer came in this semester I assume?)

Transfer students were not eligible in my high school because grades are determined differently in different schools--which is why colleges give transfer credits pass/fail instead of a letter.

[Deleted]

Apr 12, 2015 20:57:50 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

The school made an official announcement and should not withdraw that honor after that. If anything they could go with co-salutatorian with some explanation about late transfer, yet we want to recognize as well... Etc. 

That's what I suggested as a possible solution. If they're going to bend their rules and let the transfer student's weighted scores count, ok, but don't take from him what you've already announced he earned. Especially since its so late in the school year now. Just have 2. That also eases the issue with what he's already put on his college applications.

I don't really get the weighted and unweighted thing either. If u did it one way months ago to determine who got the honor, and that was supposed to be it, why do it a different way now?

I just wondered what my YM peeps thought about the situation.

[simser]

Hahaha. These things make no difference.

I went to a high school within another high school. (77 kids in a graduating class of 500). We all applied to get into the school, and it was a tough program. The best of the best so to say.

We weren't ranked. The other kids were ranked. The year before me a third of the class had a better gpa than the valedictorian. My year, I think 10% did. Life moved on. We were more bitter that we had to sit through the valedictorian say that they had the highest gpa when they didn't.

[moneymaven]

So the transfer kid is in 1st position and her child is 3rd. What's happening to the 2nd student and what was overlooked there?

[sesfw]

She says the school is not following their own rules and they're catering to the transferred child's mother , who started raising hell about her child being salutatorian.

Why does this mother have any say?  Is she contributing a huge sum of funds to the school that she can bully this through?

I don't think a senior mid-year transfer should remove an already given honor.  Mom should have figured out a way for her child to graduate with his friends in the original school.

[Shooby]

For those of you who say "it doesn't matter", why doesn't it matter? Maybe it doesn't matter to you. But, for someone who has worked hard to earn something, then No, that should not be snatched away from them in a big mess. However, it really is going to depend on the policy of the school and how the grades are weighted and determined and how being a transfer student fits in. If the transfer student falls under that and has better grades, then oh well, you lost fair and square. And, it isn't the end of the year so it is possible he could have failed a class by then or maybe the other student won't do as well either. Not sure why they would even announce that so early in the first place. Seems like a kind of a dumb thing to do. 

  At this point, the School needs to look at it's policy and then make that determination and it simply Is what it Is.  So, if it his him, then fine, if not, then fine. But, if it should be him and they aren't following their own policy, then that is a problem.

[bobosensei]

The school needs to stop making formal announcements so early.  When I graduated I was not 100% sure of my class rank until about a week before graduation, but my school also did not have the Valedictorian speak so there was no reason for anyone to know sooner.

[Shooby]

Well, you can write a speech in a week. I was the Salutatorian and spoke at Graduation so writing a speech is not a big deal.  And, I agree, you don't announce it until it has truly been determined and final.

[Deleted]

Apr 12, 2015 22:19:23 GMT -5 moneymaven said:

So the transfer kid is in 1st position and her child is 3rd. What's happening to the 2nd student and what was overlooked there?

No, the same child is still in 1st position. The transfer student is now 2nd. And my friend's child is 3rd.

[moneymaven]

Apr 13, 2015 7:03:56 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Apr 12, 2015 22:19:23 GMT -5 moneymaven said:

So the transfer kid is in 1st position and her child is 3rd. What's happening to the 2nd student and what was overlooked there?

No, the same child is still in 1st position. The transfer student is now 2nd. And my friend's child is 3rd.

Got it, thanks. They should be co-seated if nothing else. If there is a written policy on handling transfer students and eligibility, I'd push back for them to adhere to their own policy. Poor handling by the school!

[973beachbum]

I'd let/encourage my child to speak out on this if it was important to them.  I know when my DD graduated last year the top 4 or 5 were duking it out for the top spots since middle school.  And although it might not have meant a lot to one of them, the others really did work hard for those spots and it did mean a lot.  I cant imagine how pissed they would have been to be pushed aside because someone's mother is pushy.

I agree with the post that the child should speak to the board.  And where I live board meetings are open to anyone to speak at and even get coverage from the local paper.   So while I know the board would say the whole it is a private matter and we can't talk about it as a response, there is nothing stopping the student from speaking at the board meeting and to the newspaper reporter covering it.

After all it isn't like this is actually private as they speak at graduation and put out a list for all to read.

[justme]

I'm surprised they used unweighted at first. Theoretically you could have someone who took all regular classes surpassing someone in all AP.

[Deleted]

Apr 12, 2015 23:37:33 GMT -5 Shooby said:

For those of you who say "it doesn't matter", why doesn't it matter? Maybe it doesn't matter to you. But, for someone who has worked hard to earn something, then No, that should not be snatched away from them in a big mess. However, it really is going to depend on the policy of the school and how the grades are weighted and determined and how being a transfer student fits in. If the transfer student falls under that and has better grades, then oh well, you lost fair and square. And, it isn't the end of the year so it is possible he could have failed a class by then or maybe the other student won't do as well either. Not sure why they would even announce that so early in the first place. Seems like a kind of a dumb thing to do. 

  At this point, the School needs to look at it's policy and then make that determination and it simply Is what it Is.  So, if it his him, then fine, if not, then fine. But, if it should be him and they aren't following their own policy, then that is a problem.

I understand why it's so important to my friend. Her son was disgnosed with Chron's disease a few years ago. His doctors warned her that even though he didn't really act like it, he was a very sick kid. He worked a part time job after school and still kept his grades up and participated in things like the debate team and was chosen to participate in some special projects for nationwide events.   

He did quit the part time job because it was too much with his health, but with all the academics, he continued to excel. His Chron's was so bad he eventually had to have surgery. After the surgery, the surgeon told his parents that it was even worse than he could tell from the tests.

So yes, it meant a lot to them to learn that all his hard work had earned him the Salutatorian spot. If it had never been announced that he had, and he'd just graduated near the top of his class, they still would have been very proud of him. Like I said, he's a great kid. But to have it officially announced that he'd earned the honor and have it plastered at the school, then change the story a few months later because you decided to recalculate and use weighted scores this time plus include a transfer student that shouldn't be included per the schools rules............ yes, it does matter to them. My friend hasn't said it, but I think their knowledge of how serious his illness was and how he didn't let it affect his grades made the recognition mean more them, where as some people might not care so much. Anyway, I understand why it matters to them and why they want the school to follow the rules they established to determine the valedictorian and salutatorian.

[Deleted]

Apr 13, 2015 7:29:15 GMT -5 justme said:

I'm surprised they used unweighted at first. Theoretically you could have someone who took all regular classes surpassing someone in all AP.

It sounds like this school just doesn't have their shit together. They need to decide which one they're going to use and stick to that, and not switch it up near the end of the school year.

[siralynn]

Apr 13, 2015 7:29:15 GMT -5 justme said:

I'm surprised they used unweighted at first. Theoretically you could have someone who took all regular classes surpassing someone in all AP.

The problem at my high school was that the top several students games the system, and took only honors and AP classes. Those of us who took additional classes had our grad point average "diluted" by taking stuff like band, art, publications, etc. I think I ended up 10th overall, even though I took more classes and had better grades (all As) than the valedictorian or salutatorian.

Ultimately it didn't mattter (and I really had zero desire to give a speech), but the principle of the thing really pissed me off.

[justme]

Apr 13, 2015 7:44:42 GMT -5 siralynn said:

Apr 13, 2015 7:29:15 GMT -5 justme said:

I'm surprised they used unweighted at first. Theoretically you could have someone who took all regular classes surpassing someone in all AP.

The problem at my high school was that the top several students games the system, and took only honors and AP classes. Those of us who took additional classes had our grad point average "diluted" by taking stuff like band, art, publications, etc. I think I ended up 10th overall, even though I took more classes and had better grades (all As) than the valedictorian or salutatorian.

Ultimately it didn't mattter (and I really had zero desire to give a speech), but the principle of the thing really pissed me off.

I'm surprised it didn't work out that way of they weren't making all As. I definitely took non AP courses and actually only took half a course load my senior year but managed salutatorian. I think the valedictorian got it by one or two more APs than me.

[hoops902]

Apr 13, 2015 7:29:15 GMT -5 justme said:

I'm surprised they used unweighted at first. Theoretically you could have someone who took all regular classes surpassing someone in all AP.

The obvious scenario I can imagine immediately though is a small school which doens't offer AP classes, and a transfer from a school which does.  We didn't use weighted GPA at my HS, but we didn't offer any AP classes.  If someone transferred in and they started using weighted GPA that's in some ways unfair to the kids who have always gone to that school (like someone said above, the same reason you don't transfer in grades in college as part of a GPA, only the credits).

[yogiii]

A similar thing happened to me, I was at a very big school and at the last minute got bumped down to 3, where before I was involved in a tie for 2nd.  The reason due to the fact that I took classes that were not offered in honors that the other person didn't take, orchestra and spanish, not sure if there were others.  I really didn't care and my parents weren't going to speak up unless it bothered me.  Really the whole thing only happened because of the other girl's mother causing a fuss, I don't think the girl really cared.  Honestly at that age I was relieved because it meant I no longer needed to speak at graduation, I also learned early on that some people are ridiculous and just cause trouble over nothing.  I'm not sure what happened to the other girl but nothing too spectacular or I'd know about it.  I think my life has turned out ok even though I was demoted to 3 .

Of course I'm not your friend's son and if this sort of thing bothers him, he should speak up. 

Agree with everyone else too, the school shouldn't announce so early and once they make a decision, they shouldn't let a whiny parent change it.

[Tennesseer]

If you have never seen the movie, may I recommend to you Election . High school class president elections at its best.

[CarolinaKat]

Apr 13, 2015 7:44:42 GMT -5 siralynn said:

Apr 13, 2015 7:29:15 GMT -5 justme said:

I'm surprised they used unweighted at first. Theoretically you could have someone who took all regular classes surpassing someone in all AP.

The problem at my high school was that the top several students games the system, and took only honors and AP classes. Those of us who took additional classes had our grad point average "diluted" by taking stuff like band, art, publications, etc. I think I ended up 10th overall, even though I took more classes and had better grades (all As) than the valedictorian or salutatorian.

Ultimately it didn't mattter (and I really had zero desire to give a speech), but the principle of the thing really pissed me off.

That's exactly what happened at my school. The band director was so pissed that he created 'honors band' so no one would 'loose ground.'


FWIW, 'official' class ranking was determined by first semester grades at my HS (our classes went all year, not just one semester). So after that your rank was set in stone barring someone dropping out of school. IDK what they did about transfers, we didn't have any.

[justme]

That would have been nice. I had practically everyone I knew threatening me the whole year if I let #3 surpass me and get to make a speech. Lol

[zibazinski]

We knew because the pictures were in the yearbook. Found out later the Valedictorian had cheated but it was too late. Didn't matter for me as I was 7th.
But our rules were you had to be there all 4 years to be 1 or 2. I think that's fair. That's still done at the HS my kids went to and I'm totally on board with it still.