MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Apr 13, 2015 10:12:13 GMT -5
I didn't realize not going to the ceremony was an option. I realize that now, but in my teens or 20's it just seemed like something you did, maybe you didn't like it but you just did it. It was like that for school too, sometimes we'd have assembly days, I hated those but still went. I didn't register not going as an option and I never asked my parents if I could skip school those days. This is a little OT but my co-worker encourages her kids to skip assembly days. I don't think I like that. Sometimes we have to do things we don't really enjoy, I think that's something valuable kids should learn too.yes x 1000 I mean do we all want to go to work for about 40 hours a week for 30 odd years of our lives? We all do things we don't want to do sometimes - it's called being a person.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 13, 2015 10:22:55 GMT -5
I marched in high school. I attended the graduation ceremony at IWCC. I did not attend Simpson's. It would have been a 2.5 hour drive and I had just returned from Malaysia two days ago. I opted out so I could stay home and get over jet lag. I still remember parts of the God awful speech we had to sit thru at IWCC. It was some local politician that had to have been at least 1002 years old. Short speech my rear end, it lasted 35 minutes. At one point he told us to "consider the turtle" and gave forth a really long analogy that tied being a turtle into being a new graduate. It's now become a running joke between all of us. Anytime something feels like it's running forever or makes no sense one of us will jump in with "And now let us consider the turtle" and we crack up.
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milee
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Post by milee on Apr 13, 2015 10:25:43 GMT -5
milee - a quick question - how many college graduates do you have in your family? Just curious - you'll understand why after reading the below. You're right, college was expected, so maybe not as much of a big deal in my family. Of my 4 grandparents, 2 had master's degrees and the other 2 had bachelor's degrees. Both my mother and father have master's degrees - one of them in engineering from Stanford. So, similar to how Yogii describes not realizing that it was even an option to not go to a ceremony, I was probably 15 or 16 before I realized not going to college was an option. And with only a bachelor's and a CPA, I'm less educated than most of my family. (If you want to get a real laugh, I'm also one of the most liberal and most socially connected - have friends, spouse and happy children. Yes, it's a weird, Sheldon Cooper like family. )
From this thread, it sounds like the people that think going to graduation ceremonies is important fall into some broad categories:
1) Those that feel graduation is a very special event and a formal ceremony is the way that they feel most symbolizes that achievement. 2) Those that like formal ceremonies. 3) Those that value and enjoy traditions. Even if the actual tradition itself isn't enjoyable, the process of taking part in something that is a tradition has great meaning for them. 4) Those that don't necessarily believe deeply in #1-3, but are dutiful and do things that they feel they should and graduation ceremonies are something they feel duty bound to attend. 5) Those that don't necessarily believe deeply in #1-4, but love and want to support a person who falls into one of those categories, so participates to support that person.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Apr 13, 2015 10:35:03 GMT -5
I marched in high school. I attended the graduation ceremony at IWCC. I did not attend Simpson's. It would have been a 2.5 hour drive and I had just returned from Malaysia two days ago. I opted out so I could stay home and get over jet lag. I still remember parts of the God awful speech we had to sit thru at IWCC. It was some local politician that had to have been at least 1002 years old. Short speech my rear end, it lasted 35 minutes. At one point he told us to "consider the turtle" and gave forth a really long analogy that tied being a turtle into being a new graduate. It's now become a running joke between all of us. Anytime something feels like it's running forever or makes no sense one of us will jump in with "And now let us consider the turtle" and we crack up. I've got a weird sense of humor sometimes. A crazy-ass speech like that would almost make it worth going to me.
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milee
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Post by milee on Apr 13, 2015 10:36:21 GMT -5
I didn't realize not going to the ceremony was an option. I realize that now, but in my teens or 20's it just seemed like something you did, maybe you didn't like it but you just did it. It was like that for school too, sometimes we'd have assembly days, I hated those but still went. I didn't register not going as an option and I never asked my parents if I could skip school those days. This is a little OT but my co-worker encourages her kids to skip assembly days. I don't think I like that. Sometimes we have to do things we don't really enjoy, I think that's something valuable kids should learn too.yes x 1000 I mean do we all want to go to work for about 40 hours a week for 30 odd years of our lives? We all do things we don't want to do sometimes - it's called being a person. Yes, very much so. I'm a big believer in doing the nitty gritty grunt work to be successful. There are plenty of times when you put in hours and weeks and months and even years of scut in order to get to the next level goal.
That said, I'm very strategic about what I'm willing to do scut for and will put up with a lot if it gets me to a goal. I'm just not sure that going to a 4 hour graduation ceremony falls into that category because I'm not sure what desireable outcome it achieves - for anybody. The person graduating, the people sitting there, anybody.
If one of my kids wants to go to their graduation, I will go and happily support them just like I go and support them for any other thing they think is important but for which I don't find meaning or enjoyment. I just think - especially now that graduations are getting common, unexceptional and over 3 hours long - it's time to examine why we have them and if there are ways we can make them less of a torturous chore and more of an actual meaningful event. Or consider having our own meaningful celebrations instead.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2015 10:40:15 GMT -5
yes x 1000 I mean do we all want to go to work for about 40 hours a week for 30 odd years of our lives? We all do things we don't want to do sometimes - it's called being a person. Yes, very much so. I'm a big believer in doing the nitty gritty grunt work to be successful. There are plenty of times when you put in hours and weeks and months and even years of scut in order to get to the next level goal.
That said, I'm very strategic about what I'm willing to do scut for and will put up with a lot if it gets me to a goal. I'm just not sure that going to a 4 hour graduation ceremony falls into that category because I'm not sure what desireable outcome it achieves - for anybody. The person graduating, the people sitting there, anybody.
If one of my kids wants to go to their graduation, I will go and happily support them just like I go and support them for any other thing they think is important but for which I don't find meaning or enjoyment. I just think - especially now that graduations are getting common, unexceptional and over 3 hours long - it's time to examine why we have them and if there are ways we can make them less of a torturous chore and more of an actual meaningful event. Or consider having our own meaningful celebrations instead.
This is how I feel. I'll go and I'll be a happy, proud parent snapping pictures away, but if either says "Mom, I don't want to do the ceremony", I'll be totally cool with that too.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Apr 13, 2015 10:43:29 GMT -5
1. They could quit having the cutesy fake graduation ceremonies for kindergarten/elementary, etc. 2. They could break up the graduation ceremonies such that there aren't a thousand names that have to be sat through. A departmental ceremony would be more intimate, or maybe separate for graduate degrees? I don't know how it's done for most schools, as I only ever attended the one that wasn't my own. (Except for HS, as I was in band and had to attend 3 years in a row, plus siblings/cousins.)
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Apr 13, 2015 10:43:46 GMT -5
yes x 1000 I mean do we all want to go to work for about 40 hours a week for 30 odd years of our lives? We all do things we don't want to do sometimes - it's called being a person. Yes, very much so. I'm a big believer in doing the nitty gritty grunt work to be successful. There are plenty of times when you put in hours and weeks and months and even years of scut in order to get to the next level goal.
That said, I'm very strategic about what I'm willing to do scut for and will put up with a lot if it gets me to a goal. I'm just not sure that going to a 4 hour graduation ceremony falls into that category because I'm not sure what desireable outcome it achieves - for anybody. The person graduating, the people sitting there, anybody.
If one of my kids wants to go to their graduation, I will go and happily support them just like I go and support them for any other thing they think is important but for which I don't find meaning or enjoyment. I just think - especially now that graduations are getting common, unexceptional and over 3 hours long - it's time to examine why we have them and if there are ways we can make them less of a torturous chore and more of an actual meaningful event. Or consider having our own meaningful celebrations instead.
But you're saying it as though it's a common and obvious thought that these events are torturous. Words like "boring" and "torturous" are pretty subjective so I don't know how anyone would go about making a graduation less so. But if it's really that boring, play a game on your phone or watch a show on Netflix or something. I am trying not to sound condescending here, but I'm pretty sure one could find some way to keep themselves amused during a graduation ceremony if they get bored. I mean we bring coloring materials and small toys to keep our kids amused when we have to bring them to a "boring" event - adults need to do the equivalent.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Apr 13, 2015 10:46:13 GMT -5
1. They could quit having the cutesy fake graduation ceremonies for kindergarten/elementary, etc.2. They could break up the graduation ceremonies such that there aren't a thousand names that have to be sat through. A departmental ceremony would be more intimate, or maybe separate for graduate degrees? I don't know how it's done for most schools, as I only ever attended the one that wasn't my own. (Except for HS, as I was in band and had to attend 3 years in a row, plus siblings/cousins.) I think this is the biggest problem. Moving up from kindergarten to first grade isn't an accomplishment - all you did was learn to color and get older. A moving up assembly for elem-middle school is okay, but just do it during school and don't call names like at a graduation. Same for middle to high school. Keep high school and college graduations like they are now.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 13, 2015 10:50:08 GMT -5
Words like "boring" and "torturous" are pretty subjective so I don't know how anyone would go about making a graduation less soStop letting 1002 year old politicians talk about turtles for 35 minutes?
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milee
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Post by milee on Apr 13, 2015 10:50:57 GMT -5
Yes, very much so. I'm a big believer in doing the nitty gritty grunt work to be successful. There are plenty of times when you put in hours and weeks and months and even years of scut in order to get to the next level goal.
That said, I'm very strategic about what I'm willing to do scut for and will put up with a lot if it gets me to a goal. I'm just not sure that going to a 4 hour graduation ceremony falls into that category because I'm not sure what desireable outcome it achieves - for anybody. The person graduating, the people sitting there, anybody.
If one of my kids wants to go to their graduation, I will go and happily support them just like I go and support them for any other thing they think is important but for which I don't find meaning or enjoyment. I just think - especially now that graduations are getting common, unexceptional and over 3 hours long - it's time to examine why we have them and if there are ways we can make them less of a torturous chore and more of an actual meaningful event. Or consider having our own meaningful celebrations instead.
But you're saying it as though it's a common and obvious thought that these events are torturous. Words like "boring" and "torturous" are pretty subjective so I don't know how anyone would go about making a graduation less so. But if it's really that boring, play a game on your phone or watch a show on Netflix or something. I am trying not to sound condescending here, but I'm pretty sure one could find some way to keep themselves amused during a graduation ceremony if they get bored. I mean we bring coloring materials and small toys to keep our kids amused when we have to bring them to a "boring" event - adults need to do the equivalent. Yes, I do bring the adult version of small toys and a coloring book.
Can we really not think of any alternative to what these things have morphed into? I'm struggling because I'm just very, very surprised that anybody thinks it's a good or meaningful ceremony. But then again, I was surprised to find out that "boring TV" is a thing in Norway, so it really does take all sorts... www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324904004578539110228634592
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Apr 13, 2015 10:54:52 GMT -5
Words like "boring" and "torturous" are pretty subjective so I don't know how anyone would go about making a graduation less soStop letting 1002 year old politicians talk about turtles for 35 minutes? but with the technology now, think of how much fun you could have! Take a picture of them with your phone, then use Paint to draw mustaches and beards on them. Better yet, make a meme out of it and post it on Facebook. Damn, I wish we had that technology back then.
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milee
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Post by milee on Apr 13, 2015 10:56:33 GMT -5
1. They could quit having the cutesy fake graduation ceremonies for kindergarten/elementary, etc.2. They could break up the graduation ceremonies such that there aren't a thousand names that have to be sat through. A departmental ceremony would be more intimate, or maybe separate for graduate degrees? I don't know how it's done for most schools, as I only ever attended the one that wasn't my own. (Except for HS, as I was in band and had to attend 3 years in a row, plus siblings/cousins.) I think this is the biggest problem. Moving up from kindergarten to first grade isn't an accomplishment - all you did was learn to color and get older. A moving up assembly for elem-middle school is okay, but just do it during school and don't call names like at a graduation. Same for middle to high school. Keep high school and college graduations like they are now. Your cutie pie is still little, so I will be interested to hear how much you still like all this stuff by the time he's 20. The elem-middle school "moving up" ceremony here was 3.5 hours. The middle school "graduation" was 4 - and held in the gymnasium so everybody is sitting on hard bleachers with no back rest.
And I've got 2 sons, so now that son #2 is getting ready to "graduate" from elementary, I know what torture is coming and can't hide my head in happy ignorance like I did with the first son.
We'll check back with you in 10-15 years and see if you're still a fan of this stuff.
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milee
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Post by milee on Apr 13, 2015 10:59:22 GMT -5
Wait, I'm thinking more about some of the subtext here and have to ask -
Do any of you currently ever sit for more than an hour or two at a time without getting up to move around?
Because I'm thinking this might be part of the issue here. Unless forced to, I am never seated for more than an hour or so at most and during that hour I'm fidgeting. It's very, very uncomfortable for me to sit that long, but maybe if it's not for you, then this could be another one of the reasons a 3 hour ceremony would be survivable. Because even if I have toys, games, books, whatever, sitting for 3 hours is awful.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2015 11:00:37 GMT -5
And I've got 2 sons, so now that son #2 is getting ready to "graduate" from elementary, I know what torture is coming and can't hide my head in happy ignorance like I did with the first son. LOL I have two sons too, and they're far apart in age! Just this morning I was thinking, "oh man, going through this scouting stuff again in 8 years is going to kill me!"
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Apr 13, 2015 11:10:35 GMT -5
milee, I do agree that the little graduation ceremonies are unnecessary. I think that's a big part of why a lot of people are burnt out on them by the time high school graduation rolls around. Right now DS's preschool/daycare does an end-of-the-year ceremony complete with song and dance. I missed it the first year because I chose to attend an extra-curricular work event. After seeing the pics and video I felt guilty about not going, so I went the following year. It's very cute, but not needed. It's mostly about seeing the kids perform though, so not like a graduation. Now if my kid has a really hard time in school (and with his amount of energy, he just might) then I might feel differently about celebrating "meaningless" accomplishments. But if he is on par with his peers, then I probably wouldn't be as quick to celebrate these smaller events. It's kinda like what The Captain was saying earlier. And I get sciatic nerve pain so yes, sitting for more than an hour bothers me (sometimes as little as 30 mins bothers me). I do a lot of shifting in my seat but if it approaches unbearable, I excuse myself to stand.
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myrrh
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Post by myrrh on Apr 13, 2015 11:21:24 GMT -5
For me, graduations are where you subject yourself to discomfort and boredom for a couple of hours to show your support and then go celebrate/eat with family. It's not like it's an every day occurrence. I agree that many graduation ceremonies are way longer than necessary and can be considered tortuous. College ceremonies with more than a couple of hundred graduates really ought to be broken up in order to make them more shorter - especially if you are making attendees stand (or sit on very hard chairs) for hours in the hot sun. I guess this would mean that college presidents, regents, and a few other people would have to go to multiple ceremonies, but most of those are paid for their time anyway.
I'm pretty sure I was required to attend the ceremony in order to get my HS diploma. And it was a relief to know I wouldn't have to go again next year (as a band member I had to attend all high school graduation ceremonies to play That Awful Song, aka Pomp and Circumstance. I hate that song to this day.) I also walked for college and for masters degrees, and my immediate family all came and sometimes more extended family as well. The same for my sister.
I agree that the "graduation" ceremonies for little kids have gotten ridiculous. DS1 had a graduation ceremony last year for moving from preschool to kindergarten, complete with cap and gown. (Thank God they didn't play a recording of That Awful Song.) It was pretty cute and only lasted half an hour but still. I seriously hope there isn't one for kindergarten too.
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myrrh
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Post by myrrh on Apr 13, 2015 11:29:30 GMT -5
Oh great, now I have That Awful Song stuck in my head. Thanks a lot guys.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2015 11:48:09 GMT -5
I didn't realize not going to the ceremony was an option. I realize that now, but in my teens or 20's it just seemed like something you did, maybe you didn't like it but you just did it. Not sure how other schools handle it, but my high school gave each of us a form. It had check boxes for what we were attending (graduation ceremony, end of year party) and listed the prices. I checked that I was going to the grade wide party, but did not check the ceremony. It said $140 for a cap and gown. I had a job in high school. I didn't want to pay that, and didn't want to ask mom and dad to if I saw no point to it. The party was $60, if I recall right, I could get behind that. But at $140 (the form said aid was available ), I figured it was inherently understood that it was an optional event. I went to all rallies and everything, and was very obedient, I gave speeches and presentations as required for classes to get As. But I'm not shelling out or asking other to shell out that kind of money for an uncomfortable-to-me marking event that's supposed to be a celebration. That seemed like just layering on discomfort. When I turned in my form to the office with the money for the party but not for the graduation ceremony, that's when the office ladies said they'd give me a cap and gown for free if I'd do it. After experiencing a ceremony firsthand, I figured, yep, that was an experience, no need to pay to repeat that for myself. It was definitely a financial rip off of the highest caliber. The grade wide party was pretty good though, that was a memory.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Apr 13, 2015 11:53:05 GMT -5
My DS will be graduating from pre-K this year, I'll let you know. What is annoying is that I've already been to 3 evening meetings about public kindergarten and we haven't even done the tour yet where I bring him with me to see the classroom...plus I have to ride the bus with him the first day . I'll have to post an update this fall about how many moms cried
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Apr 13, 2015 11:58:38 GMT -5
My DS will be graduating from pre-K this year, I'll let you know. What is annoying is that I've already been to 3 evening meetings about public kindergarten and we haven't even done the tour yet where I bring him with me to see the classroom...plus I have to ride the bus with him the first day . I'll have to post an update this fall about how many moms cried Not including yourself of course
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Apr 13, 2015 11:59:28 GMT -5
I'm very icy, not worried about it
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Apr 13, 2015 12:01:49 GMT -5
My kids went to a small catholic school (K-8) and had both kindergarten and 8th grade graduations. The whole immediate family went to both. Thing 1 is graduating from high school this year and we only get 12 tickets, so we are prioritizing who gets to go. I keep meaning to ask my grandparents if they want to go as my grandma can't walk very far and will probably have to go in a wheelchair. Hopefully she will get to go. If not, we will be able to invite different people who are a little lower on the totum pole.
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myrrh
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Post by myrrh on Apr 13, 2015 12:03:42 GMT -5
$140? Wow that is a serious ripoff. I can't remember how much the high school cap and gown was, but for college it was $30 for bachelors, $35 for masters, and $40 for PhD.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Apr 13, 2015 12:08:01 GMT -5
My DS will be graduating from pre-K this year, I'll let you know. What is annoying is that I've already been to 3 evening meetings about public kindergarten and we haven't even done the tour yet where I bring him with me to see the classroom...plus I have to ride the bus with him the first day . I'll have to post an update this fall about how many moms cried I wish I could ride the bus with my DS on his first day. I seriously worry how he'll take it, as he wants to be babied all the time and freaks out easily.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Apr 13, 2015 12:12:14 GMT -5
My DS will be graduating from pre-K this year, I'll let you know. What is annoying is that I've already been to 3 evening meetings about public kindergarten and we haven't even done the tour yet where I bring him with me to see the classroom...plus I have to ride the bus with him the first day . I'll have to post an update this fall about how many moms cried I wish I could ride the bus with my DS on his first day. I seriously worry how he'll take it, as he wants to be babied all the time and freaks out easily. Have you talked to him about it at all? Mine walks around saying he's excited to go just for the bus ride. He may surprise you! My DS tends on the lazy side, if it were up to him we'd still dress him every morning and put his shoes on for him but I think the thought of being on the bus is actually a big kid thing he finds exciting.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Apr 13, 2015 12:17:50 GMT -5
I'm very icy, not worried about it don't fight the feels!!!!!
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Apr 13, 2015 12:18:50 GMT -5
I love how the legth of the ceremony in this thread keeps getting longer and longer. At first it was 2 hrs and now it is 4. LOL.
My thoughts is if I'm paying for your college education, I am going to strongly encourage you to go. While my college ceremony isn't that memorable to me, the pictures I have of me and my grandparents are very precious to me. Moreso than my wedding pics with them. (Not sure why).
I also went to a small college and knew a lot of the people graduating with me. My classmate next to me and I gossiped about each person crossing the stage.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2015 12:19:50 GMT -5
I wish my 4 year old would say he doesn't want to ride the bus. It's actually easier for me to just drop them both off on my way to work in the morning, but he's been waiting through two years of preschool for this. Next Fall he's a big time kindergartner and gets to ride the bus! He is so stoked and would lose it if I chose not to register for the bus. It will probably be something crazy like a 6:30am pick up and they're on for nearly an hour with a bus switch. This year it's 6:45 pick up and they get there about 7:30, but it changes.
If I drive it's 10-15 minutes....
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Apr 13, 2015 12:20:00 GMT -5
I'm very icy, not worried about it don't fight the feels!!!!! The kids have made it so I'm a step above robot, don't worry
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