Graduation Ceremony - Required or Not?

[zibazinski]

I sat through DD's.  Hours worth.     I remember being upset because DS didn't walk. Now I'm grateful. You need to realize that DD is an attention seeker and every time she does anything, it's to be celebrated. She's still unhappy that no one celebrated her getting into PA school. Yes, I'm celebrating another money drain.      I thought that ship had sailed. She's gets more like her father every day. 

[Lizard Queen]

I attended my own high school graduation, but not the 3 since I could have walked in.  Maybe if I get a Master's degree.  I did attend my xSILs college graduation with my parents.  I don't know why.  I think my dad considered her more of a daughter than I was at the time. . 

[Deleted]

I am confused on the topic.   In the first post, Milee asks about college graduation ceremonies.  Later she is talking about 10 to 20 hours a week sitting through sports practices.  The two things are completely different.  I would not let anyone guilt me into how I spent 20 hours a week.  I am for guilting  a parent into going to important ceremonies like graduation.

[quince]

There's a difference between. "Hey, I hope you got an invitation. It would really mean a lot to me if you showed up, but I'll understand if your schedule is full." and "You NEED to show up, because family/milestone events/if I have to suffer so do you."

Or "I understand that the ceremony isn't important to you, but it is meaningful to me, and I would appreciate if you chose to participate.  I will pay for your cap/gown/invitations because it means so much to me. Please do this?" and "You owe me for helping you through college/ birthing you/ not putting a pillow over your bratty face."

If a relationship is good and there are no conflicting commitments or excess expense involved,(or recurring "everything is special to me" bullshit) most people will happily do things for other people when asked nicely even if it is mildly unpleasant for them. If someone has an anxiety disorder or would incur a lot of expense doing something for you, you shouldn't expect them to suck it up. If you want it that much, you pay for it/accommodate their issues.

I picture parents and a child suffering through a graduation, NONE of them wanting to be there, but doing it just because "it's what you do" and that's just...a waste of life.  Don't do things "just because". Do them because you want to, someone you love wants you to, or because there is some concrete gain from doing so. I understand that this means communicating completely, clearly,  and courteously, and people hate doing that.

[KaraBoo]

Apr 11, 2015 9:52:38 GMT -5 @hickle said:

I am confused on the topic.   In the first post, Milee asks about college graduation ceremonies.  Later she is talking about 10 to 20 hours a week sitting through sports practices.  The two things are completely different.  I would not let anyone guilt me into how I spent 20 hours a week.  I am for guilting  a parent into going to important ceremonies like graduation.

I cannot speak for Milee - but I think I know where she's coming from. 

When you add up all of the time you spend trekking your kids from event to event (some of which there is HUGE expectations from other parents that you attend and are somehow "lesser than" if you could care less about), by the time you get to the actual, true, "milestone" events, you're just flat worn out as a parent.  

Add in possible expectations from extended family that you attend nieces, nephews, cousins or other events and graduations, it can just become a beat down.

My dad's side of the extended family is very close and is huge (almost 60 people when all are in attendance).  We had 5 graduations last spring to attend - not counting graduations outside of the family on the spouse's sides.  Only a couple of the graduates wanted to do a "joint" graduation with the others.  As a family, we collectively agreed that a joint graduation party would be optimal, but didn't want to take away from any of their "special" days, so individual parties it was.  It worked out that we were able to do the parties over the course of about 6 weeks.  Most of the family didn't make it to all of the events - and that was okay.  

Even as close of a family that we are - by the 5th party, we were looking at each other saying, "I love you, but I'm tired of seeing you!"  

[MJ2.0]

But practices and games/recitals are many times a year. A person only gets a (real) graduation maybe 1-3 times in their entire life. I don't understand not being able to suffer through about 4-12 hours of important events over their entire lifetime.

[KaraBoo]

It's not about "suffering through about 4-12 hours of important events over an entire lifetime", but rather the collective amount of "required" time that has become the "norm".

Societally, there is huge pressure on parents to attend EVERY SINGLE EVENT that a child does.  And that if you are unable or just flat don't want to attend, little Suzie's 5th grade graduation ceremony, somehow you are made out to be a horrible parent.  I see it all the time - the comments of "well, I WANT to attend XYZ event to show my child that I love and support them".  The underlying tone is received as if I don't attend (for whatever reason), then somehow I am a lesser parent because I don't WANT to love and support my child.  It may not be meant that way, but it is just another layer of parent-guilt that is received.

For those that do not see this side - is it because you have kids that are too young and haven't seen it yet, or kids that have already graduated in the distant past (more than 10 years ago)?  It's been going on a long time, but I'm seeing it ramp up more and more the older my children are.  Things that weren't expected almost 30 years ago (when I "graduated" 5th grade - there was no "graduation ceremony" for us) is now ramped up and over the top (one school my oldest went to - before we had custody - had the 5th graders in actual caps, gowns, tassels, certificate book and professional photos - I know, because I have the pictures!   ).  

I receive comments like this all the time - even from my step-kids.  The comments come from their mom, but it is directed at me, meant to be repeated to me and an attempt to make me feel like a lesser person.  That I "only" attend the kids events to make her (bio-mom) look bad because she HAS to work and can't afford to attend.  I have told the kids more times than I can remember that, "No, I attend because I WANT to attend.  I wanted my parents to attend my events and they chose not to and that made me feel bad as a child.  I don't want you feeling bad because I'm not there to support you.  If I can't attend, I let you know why, but that doesn't make me feel less guilty.  I know that if it is important to you, then it is definitely important to me and I will support you in it."

[Lizard Queen]

I dread facing this as my kids get older. On the one hand, I remember how little support I got from my parents with those extra-curricular events. On the other hand, there are an awful lot of games to attend if they're into sports. I don't think dropping everything to go to every ballgame little johnie plays in twice a week sends him the right message. However, a twice yearly concert, it would have been nice if I didn't have to goad my parents to come.

[KaraBoo]

EXACTLY!!!!  

I had the same experience as a child that I don't want repeated with my kids.  But I don't want and can't attend everything that other parents EXPECT me to be at, because they are there, just because I'm the parent and I signed my kid up for an activity.  


I really see this in elementary school PTA parents in my area - or the booster parents for the older kids (band and football).  I get that they need and want volunteers to help.  Don't use the implied tactic that "you don't love your child if you don't volunteer for every little thing we do to collect/raise money" - that's not likely to get me to help.  In fact, I'll usually ignore you even more if you try that with me!  I'm already over-extended - I don't need another layer of mommy-guilt heaped on because I can't spend ANOTHER 5 hours a week doing whatever it is you volunteered to do!!!  (collective you - not directed at anyone here)

[Deleted]

I didn't go to my high school or my college graduation ceremonies.  I think the college requires you to if you graduate Spring semester, but I graduated in the Summer.

I have zero desire to be a part of any kind of ceremony.  If I could have had it my way there would have been just justice of the peace weddings too. 

So, anyhow, my answer to the question in the OP is, no.  I would not make my kids take part in a graduation ceremony if they didn't want to.  I would happily throw a party with or without the hours of reading off names and boring speeches.  They have the piece of paper saying they finished, that's all that really matters.

[Robert not Bobby]

Apr 10, 2015 17:12:18 GMT -5 milee said:

On another thread, some posters mentioned that they required their loved ones to attend their college graduation ceremony.

Did you do this or would you do this? Why or why not?

I didn't require it, they just came.

No big deal...well, for my mom it was a big deal. I'm the youngest and she thought I was a bit of a "foot loose and fancy free type of guy".

It gave her pleasure and made her happy, that's why.

"job well done kind of thing"...and an excuse for a party.

[MJ2.0]

I said nothing about attending every single game/function.... that seems a bit over the top. I was simply talking about graduations and other milestone events. If you just stick to the occasional important games/recitals/concerts and the big milestone events, I think that's fine.

[Deleted]

Apr 11, 2015 14:39:13 GMT -5 @tbird said:

No, it's not like a big exploding ball of mega-excitement, but these are the milestones of life. As mentioned - graduation is one of the least occurring ones.

Weddings, graduations, funerals.....these are the big ticket items of life that you share with family.

I think it's more just wondering about different forms of celebration with family.

DH's family loves formalized traditional events, generally the bigger the better.  There were over 250 people on his sisters' side alone at her wedding.  

My family is pretty shy and eccentric, so we usually prefer informal and "anything goes" celebrations when we get to choose.  Cake always figures in somehow, but everything else is whatever seems nice and fun.  To us that's the spirit of celebration, having fun and marking things in a way that's meaningful to an individual.

DH loves getting super dressed up and going to expensive places for his birthday.  I got a great vietnamese sandwich for my birthday meal this year, I love laid back atmospheres and sandwiches. A sandwich is honestly a great birthday meal to me.  We choose what we like for our birthday celebrations, and accommodate the other for their celebrations.  Having a range makes sense to me.  A deli sandwich would mean nothing to DH, and a fancy meal for my birthday would be uncomfortable for me, I don't really like getting dressed up if I can help it.  

An idea that there's only one way to celebrate and mark a graduation seems odd to me, people mark other milestones in lots of different ways.

[Deleted]

It's been 27 (28?) years since my graduation and I have never regretted once skipping the ceremony.  A few of my friends that I used to skip school with carried on the tradition by going down to the lake and having a few drinks instead. 

We still had a big party the following weekend, so it wasn't like the family didn't get together to celebrate. 

[Robert not Bobby]

Apr 11, 2015 16:41:32 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

It's been 27 (28?) years since my graduation and I have never regretted once skipping the ceremony.  A few of my friends that I used to skip school with carried on the tradition by going down to the lake and having a few drinks instead. 

We still had a big party the following weekend, so it wasn't like the family didn't get together to celebrate. 

Oh, you are so radical...but not really.

There was something that kept you away, even if you don't remember now.

I'm glad you had a party.

[Deleted]

Apr 11, 2015 16:50:19 GMT -5 Robert not Bobby said:

Apr 11, 2015 16:41:32 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

It's been 27 (28?) years since my graduation and I have never regretted once skipping the ceremony.  A few of my friends that I used to skip school with carried on the tradition by going down to the lake and having a few drinks instead. 

We still had a big party the following weekend, so it wasn't like the family didn't get together to celebrate. 

Oh, you are so radical...but not really.

There was something that kept you away, even if you don't remember now.

I'm glad you had a party.

Oh, I remember.  I hated high school.  I hated everything about it.  I didn't look at graduating as some amazing accomplishment as I was hardly ever in class the last two years I was there.  But, I passed all the tests, and had all the credits.  I was free from the place before the ceremony ever took place and wasn't going to give them one more minute of my time.

[teen persuasion]

Guess I'm just different - I love all the pomp and circumstance surrounding graduations, the more traditional the better.  Most of the ceremonies I've attended have been in special or unique locations, famous concert halls or historic campus settings, and I can enjoy the architecture if I'm bored with the listing of the names (the only boring part).  Now, a ceremony in a giant modern sports facility would be skippable to me.

Our local HS graduations are a community event.  Weather permitting, they are held on the front lawn of the campus, in the heart of the village, and everyone is invited (unless it must be moved indoors, then seating is limited due to auditorium size).  Neighbors sit on their front porches across the street to watch the kids they know graduate.  When the orchestra director learned that they used "canned" music for the ceremony, he got a volunteer student orchestra to perform at graduation, so over the years our kids have been attending/providing music since they were in MS.  Junior year honor students are a part of the ceremony - Daisy Chain, it is called.  The girls dress in white dresses, with gloves, as a sort of honor guard to the graduates, holding the daisy chain (which they have to make - the only pesty part of the tradition - pick buckets of daisies, attach them to the ropes, all a day before the ceremony).

Our district's strong music program links the kids across grade level; band/orchestra/chorus classes are multi-age within a school, so the kids develop relationships with older and younger students.  The alumni regularly return to see their friends in concerts, musicals, and, yes, at graduation.  Thus, graduation is also a time to reconnect with those who have gone before.

[garion2003]

I think it's ridiculous that preschool children have a graduation ceremony complete with cap and gown.

I attended my college and grad school ceremonies. I went to small schools and worked hard and it meant a lot to me. My parents supported me and there was never a question of them not coming, they just did.

For undergrad i did send invites to relatives - not so they would come, but so they would send money

[quince]

Throwing a party or having large ceremonial gatherings to celebrate things is basically saying, hello, socially anxious introvert: to celebrate these things in your life we are going to torture you for 2-6 hours. I bet you can't wait until your next "landmark" event! And when we have our landmark events, again you get to be tortured for 2-6 hours, because you love us. Whee!

I don't think it's bad to want family at your special event. I think it's good for people who don't want to be there to show up anyway because they love you. I feel it is absurd to feel entitled to the attention and participation. Feel appreciative, and don't be a snot if you don't always get what you want. Thank people for coming, and thank people for gifts, and thank them if they just send a card or wish you well in passing.

I'll go to graduations, weddings, performances, and sporting events(please let these be few and far between) if my kid asks me to, and if he doesn't, we can celebrate his "milestones" with a quiet dinner together or not at all, as he prefers. If his grandparents try to put pressure on him to be their dancing monkey, I will put them in their place or let him do so, if he prefers. 

Because I love him.

[MJ2.0]

For those of you saying graduations/sporting events/concerts are torture - I just hope that you hide it well when you actually do attend.

[alabamagal]

DS has already informed me that at his large state school for spring graduation he will only have 4 tickets to the event. This is 2 years away. I told him we will have a big party anyway.

My kids all played sports all through high school. I never attended practice unless I was actively helping the coach. I went to every game except a few when I was traveling for business.

[mmhmm]

Apr 12, 2015 10:03:47 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

For those of you saying graduations/sporting events/concerts are torture - I just hope that you hide it well when you actually do attend.

I'm glad to attend such things if it's important to the person involved. I don't have to fake it. I'm genuinely happy for them. For me, however, pomp and circumstance just isn't appealing to me. I wanted none of it.

[Deleted]

I did the first three . . . high school, college, and first MA. I was married then so DH and the kids came to the MA. Of course, we celebrated the kids' high school graduations. In fact, I was really annoyed because the headmaster wouldn't let me be a parent and sit in the audience and take pictures. DH was president of the Board of Directors so he handed out diplomas.  Fortunately, my son and daughter-in-law college graduated together.  I didn't go to my daughter's graduation from pharmacy school or her husband's graduation from law school.  They were on working days in the daytime.  They were fine with that.

Fast forward to my MLIS degree.  I thought about walking.  I went to the bookstore to order the regalia, and it would be about $150.  No one would be coming; by then, my kids had multiple children and DH and I hadn't married yet. $150 would buy the very fancy diploma frame with the seal and the name in gold. 

I went for the very fancy diploma frame.

As far as Milee's observation about what "good" parents are supposed to do, understand that it doesn't end with being a parent.  My daughter was shocked that I passed on seeing one of my granddaughters do her first ballet at age 5 in "The Nutcracker."  DH has a bad back so he couldn't go.  I honestly find ballet uninteresting and hanging out with my ex and his wife even less enjoyable. I did Grandparents' Day at their school.  I went to the Book Fair.  I did the piano recitals.  I've done Halloween parties that have no other adults and birthday parties at Chuck-E-Cheese and the ice skating rink. But with eight and soon-to-be nine grandchildren, I am not going to make it to every single activity.

My ex would have "made" me go. He was all about what people think.  One of DH's best qualities is that he believes it is ok to say no. 

By the way, I go to a high school graduation every year.  It is part of my job.  If parents would behave themselves and quit screaming and yelling so the whole ceremony has to grind to a halt, it would go much more quickly.  Ours is about 3 hours!

 

[MJ2.0]

Apr 12, 2015 17:15:01 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

I'm planning to skip mine.  I'm going back for me.  I don't need to walk across the stage and have some dude I've never talked to hand me a fake degree.  The whole thing seems so pointless.  I could see it if I was traditional student, maybe.  Tradition, right of passage, all that jazz.  I'm in my thirties now.  I'm going back to finish something I should have finished the first time.  I'm doing this for me this time, not external validation.

I could see having a few people over for a barbecue and some beers at my house to celebrate my graduation.  The formal ceremony with hundreds or thousands of other people in caps and gown, speeches by people none of us know, family sitting separately from the graduates bored out of their skulls, dealing with crowds, parking, etc... the whole thing sounds exhausting.  They don't even have the decency to offer a free bar like people getting married.  It's inhumane really.

I wouldn't really care if the kids choose to skip walking in their high school graduation.  I would probably want them to attend their college graduation ceremonies though, so I could attend and get one last chance to be extremely proud of them while trying to my damnedest to yell loudly enough to embarrass them while they cross the stage.  It's tricky when your last name starts with a Z.  The crowd is getting restless because it's almost over.  They might be the last name called altogether, so I'd be totally drowned out by the general applause.  I'll have to smuggle in a boat horn just to be sure.

My college had two people calling names - one started at the beginning of the alphabet and the other started in the middle. So the first would call an A name, then the other person would call an M name, and it went back and forth like that til all names were called. I went to a big state university so it worked out quite well.

[teen persuasion]

I seem to remember that at the college graduations I've been to they separated graduates by type of degree and majors.  So Masters degrees  first, then Bachelors, and BA before BS, etc.  There were lots of lists of names, over and over.  For DD1 there were two ceremonies, in two different locations.  The general one in the center of campus, and one specific to her department/college at a historic music theatre.  It sounds like DS2 may have something similar, since graduation ceremonies are scheduled over multiple days.

Anyone else do Convocation?  If I'm remembering correctly, all professors and grads joined for a Mass not at the main chapel on campus (too small), but rather at the large church next to campus, processing on foot from Old Main.  Again, gorgeous architecture in that church - DH and I were married there.  It has since been decommissioned and acquired by the college, and is used as a performing arts center now.

[HoneyBBQ]

I have a Ph.D. and the first, last, and only time I ever walked was my high school graduation.

[Deleted]

Apr 11, 2015 9:52:38 GMT -5 @hickle said:

I am confused on the topic.   In the first post, Milee asks about college graduation ceremonies.  Later she is talking about 10 to 20 hours a week sitting through sports practices.  The two things are completely different.  I would not let anyone guilt me into how I spent 20 hours a week.  I am for guilting  a parent into going to important ceremonies like graduation.

I guess it depends on what you view as important.  To ME, the 22 years leading up to the child getting that degree are what matters, not the few hours packed into an auditorium somewhere.

[The Captain]

milee - a quick question - how many college graduates do you have in your family?  Just curious - you'll understand why after reading the below.


I think expectations and norms have a lot to do with how a family will view something.  I was the first in my family (both sides) to graduate college - had the parents, grandparents, great aunts and uncles there (and it was a 3.5 hour drive).  I wasn't into the whole thing so much but it was really important to the family so I walked.

When I got my masters I didn't walk.  Mom found out after the fact and was pretty pissed at me, I didn't get it at the time.

A few years back we went to a niece's HS graduation.   Pretty normal and routine, right?  Two bleachers over there was a family hooting and hollering and carrying on like it was a huge deal.  Later when one of the men yelled out "First one to graduate!!!" I realized that for them, it was.

Used to be a time when more people didn't graduate from HS than not.  Used to be a time most didn't go on to college.  Now it's becoming routine.  While I think that's a good thing, it's still nice to celebrate accomplishments together as a family.

If nothing else, it's a reason besides a wedding and a funeral for the whole clan to get together!

[Deleted]

Apr 13, 2015 9:19:11 GMT -5 The Captain said:

milee - a quick question - how many college graduates do you have in your family?  Just curious - you'll understand why after reading the below.


I think expectations and norms have a lot to do with how a family will view something.  I was the first in my family (both sides) to graduate college - had the parents, grandparents, great aunts and uncles there (and it was a 3.5 hour drive).  I wasn't into the whole thing so much but it was really important to the family so I walked.

When I got my masters I didn't walk.  Mom found out after the fact and was pretty pissed at me, I didn't get it at the time.

A few years back we went to a niece's HS graduation.   Pretty normal and routine, right?  Two bleachers over there was a family hooting and hollering and carrying on like it was a huge deal.  Later when one of the men yelled out "First one to graduate!!!" I realized that for them, it was.

Used to be a time when more people didn't graduate from HS than not.  Used to be a time most didn't go on to college.  Now it's becoming routine.  While I think that's a good thing, it's still nice to celebrate accomplishments together as a family.

If nothing else, it's a reason besides a wedding and a funeral for the whole clan to get together!

I'm all for a massive party.  It's the ceremony that I'm kind of "meh" on. 

[yogiii]

I didn't realize not going to the ceremony was an option.  I realize that now, but in my teens or 20's it just seemed like something you did, maybe you didn't like it but you just did it.

It was like that for school too, sometimes we'd have assembly days, I hated those but still went.  I didn't register not going as an option and I never asked my parents if I could skip school those days.  This is a little OT but my co-worker encourages her kids to skip assembly days.  I don't think I like that.  Sometimes we have to do things we don't really enjoy, I think that's something valuable kids should learn too.