midjd
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Post by midjd on Mar 17, 2015 14:30:46 GMT -5
From the OP, I'm guessing "______ is retarded" wasn't referring to slowed growth. I know that - I was just saying that banning it as a word altogether doesn't make sense. In a setting where you're not talking about slowed growth, no, it shouldn't be used. I never suggested banning it as a word. But according to Proboards' TOS, I can write "________ is retarded" (as long as _____ isn't the name of another poster here) and it's fine. That was a surprising revelation.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 17, 2015 14:33:40 GMT -5
Nothing, NOTHING is as bad as the N word. That N word can get you fired, beat, and even killed! yeah. I mean there are other non-offensive uses for "gay", "fruity", ""... please show me a non-offensive use for the N word. Many people use the term to mean "friend". Those people aren't offended by the word clearly.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 17, 2015 14:33:54 GMT -5
I'm with you. It is an offensive and outdated term. OTOH, I reported a post here not too long ago and some of the other admins informed me that, while distasteful, "retard" isn't forbidden by Proboards or YMAM's standards. I was surprised, since I equate it with the n-word (as well as the f-word that rhymes with maggot), but not everyone does. I had to look that one up! The term is, indeed, offensive. There's no question about that, and the post was edited by the OP to remove that term - even though the term was not used as a personal insult in the post reported, so was not against our CoC. Just wanted to make sure our policy is clearly understood here. If the term is used to refer to another poster it will either be edited by the person who posts it, or the post will be removed. Frankly, I don't like to see it used at all, anywhere, in reference to anything, ever; however, our CoC precludes the use of such terms only as personal insults against another poster or a poster's family members. It does not preclude the use in a general way against large groups of anonymous people. mmhmm, Administrator
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Mar 17, 2015 14:35:28 GMT -5
I know that - I was just saying that banning it as a word altogether doesn't make sense. In a setting where you're not talking about slowed growth, no, it shouldn't be used. I never suggested banning it as a word. But according to Proboards' TOS, I can write "________ is retarded" (as long as _____ isn't the name of another poster here) and it's fine. That was a surprising revelation. Yeah. That would probably be more hassle to manage than it's worth. Do we really have to worry about that though? I mean I've seen the type of insults thrown around here - I think we're WAY past using that word.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 17, 2015 14:37:59 GMT -5
I never suggested banning it as a word. But according to Proboards' TOS, I can write "________ is retarded" (as long as _____ isn't the name of another poster here) and it's fine. That was a surprising revelation. Yeah. That would probably be more hassle to manage than it's worth. Do we really have to worry about that though? I mean I've seen the type of insults thrown around here - I think we're WAY past using that word. Pfffft, you would say that, cuz you're a flazabaster molabin.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Mar 17, 2015 14:39:02 GMT -5
yeah. I mean there are other non-offensive uses for "gay", "fruity", ""... please show me a non-offensive use for the N word. Many people use the term to mean "friend". Those people aren't offended by the word clearly. The difference is that the N word is an offensive term that people attempt to make endearing. The others in my example were perfectly good words that were then used in an offensive manner.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Mar 17, 2015 14:42:08 GMT -5
Yeah. That would probably be more hassle to manage than it's worth. Do we really have to worry about that though? I mean I've seen the type of insults thrown around here - I think we're WAY past using that word. Pfffft, you would say that, cuz you're a flazabaster molabin. <<pulls out the book of Mama jokes>>
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 17, 2015 14:44:15 GMT -5
Many people use the term to mean "friend". Those people aren't offended by the word clearly. The difference is that the N word is an offensive term that people attempt to make endearing. The others in my example were perfectly good words that were then used in an offensive manner. Does it really matter? Do you think the N-word would be less offensive if at one time it meant "a small puddle of water" or something else completely unrelated? I don't. I think people find it more offensive purely because of the amount of hatred associated to that word...regardless of whether it used to mean something weird.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Mar 17, 2015 14:46:39 GMT -5
Nothing, NOTHING is as bad as the N word. That N word can get you fired, beat, and even killed! yeah. I mean there are other non-offensive uses for "gay", "fruity", ""... please show me a non-offensive use for the N word. There's no non-offensive use of the f-word either. And it really doesn't matter if a non-offensive use of a word exists if it is currently being used offensively.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Mar 17, 2015 14:47:04 GMT -5
The difference is that the N word is an offensive term that people attempt to make endearing. The others in my example were perfectly good words that were then used in an offensive manner. Does it really matter? Do you think the N-word would be less offensive if at one time it meant "a small puddle of water" or something else completely unrelated? I don't. I think people find it more offensive purely because of the amount of hatred associated to that word...regardless of whether it used to mean something weird. Eh, I guess you're right. It just feels like it's different with that one.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 17, 2015 14:48:14 GMT -5
I know that - I was just saying that banning it as a word altogether doesn't make sense. In a setting where you're not talking about slowed growth, no, it shouldn't be used. I never suggested banning it as a word. But according to Proboards' TOS, I can write "________ is retarded" (as long as _____ isn't the name of another poster here) and it's fine. That was a surprising revelation. It isn't ProBoards' ToS that precludes the use of the term; although, I wouldn't bet on their reaction if someone used that term against another poster and the insulted poster complained to ProBoards. The term is precluded by our rules here on these forums if used as a personal insult. I'll give an example: If I say: "midjd, you're a retard!", I'd best run for the hills. That comment will either be redacted by the poster or the post will be removed. The poster will be reprimanded. If I say: "People who wear green shoes are retards!", I've just proven myself a tasteless idiot but I haven't broken any rules. I hope that helps. Sometimes, the nuances aren't so easily grasped. As I said, I loathe the term so my hackles go up anytime I see it used, no matter the context. That, however, is my personal stance and is not the stance of the forums. mmhmm, Administrator
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 17, 2015 14:50:57 GMT -5
I think it's probably different, I just think for a different reason. I think it's because it's been used with so much hate, and is associated with slavery and civil rights. I think had there never been slavery (and some of the associated pieces that came with civil rights...lynching, etc) people would be using it the way they use offensive terms to refer to Mexicans (beaner, wetback, etc). Offensive, but not the level people want to murder you.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Mar 17, 2015 14:52:31 GMT -5
yeah. I mean there are other non-offensive uses for "gay", "fruity", ""... please show me a non-offensive use for the N word. There's no non-offensive use of the f-word either. I understand that - I was stating my disagreement with the idea that using the word "retarded" is the same as using the N word. There can be an acceptable, non-slang, non-offensive use for it, but that is not the same for the N word. People being okay with being addressed in that fashion doesn't take away from the fact that it is and always has been a derogatory term. JMO
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 17, 2015 14:54:27 GMT -5
yeah. I mean there are other non-offensive uses for "gay", "fruity", ""... please show me a non-offensive use for the N word. There's no non-offensive use of the f-word either. And it really doesn't matter if a non-offensive use of a word exists if it is currently being used offensively. "fruity"?
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Mar 17, 2015 14:54:58 GMT -5
I think it's probably different, I just think for a different reason. I think it's because it's been used with so much hate, and is associated with slavery and civil rights. I think had there never been slavery (and some of the associated pieces that came with civil rights...lynching, etc) people would be using it the way they use offensive terms to refer to Mexicans (beaner, wetback, etc). Offensive, but not the level people want to murder you. If I were a Mexican I'd totally murder you for those.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Mar 17, 2015 14:56:43 GMT -5
There's no non-offensive use of the f-word either. And it really doesn't matter if a non-offensive use of a word exists if it is currently being used offensively. "fruity"? LOL. yeah, sure, that F-word.
I'm now calling you a d-word. But only in my head so you can't stop me. neener-neener
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Mar 17, 2015 15:11:19 GMT -5
Gotcha. My confusion came in when I assumed that "retards" was one of those types of words that would be requested to be redacted regardless of whether it was a personal or general insult. I was honestly surprised that it wasn't included in the list. Maybe it's more equivalent to calling little people "midgets" than the n-word, f-word, etc.? I agree (and it does help, thank you!) That was why I brought it up here -- it made me wonder whether my (and your) visceral reaction to the word was the exception, not the rule.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 17, 2015 15:20:14 GMT -5
Gotcha. My confusion came in when I assumed that "retards" was one of those types of words that would be requested to be redacted regardless of whether it was a personal or general insult. I was honestly surprised that it wasn't included in the list. Maybe it's more equivalent to calling little people "midgets" than the n-word, f-word, etc.? I agree (and it does help, thank you!) That was why I brought it up here -- it made me wonder whether my (and your) visceral reaction to the word was the exception, not the rule. I think the reason we make a distinction between personal and general use is to keep ourselves off the slippery slope of overbearing censorship. I didn't make the rules, but that's my guess as to why it's the way it is. If we get too all-inclusive on things like that we could end up doing nothing but chastising folks and removing posts! People often make comments about large swathes of people (think Democrats, Republicans, etc.) that they wouldn't make about individuals. The impersonal nature of groups makes that less degrading, somehow - watered down, so to speak. It still makes me shudder, but that's just me (and, obviously, you). I'm glad I could help with understanding. Most folks don't really mean to offend and understanding is the best way to avoid doing so.
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Mar 17, 2015 15:24:15 GMT -5
Nothing, NOTHING is as bad as the N word. That N word can get you fired, beat, and even killed! yeah. I mean there are other non-offensive uses for "gay", "fruity", ""... please show me a non-offensive use for the N word. I thought that if you end it with an "a" instead of an "er", it shows that you are a hip, fly, fresh, white dude who's down wit' the homies.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Mar 17, 2015 15:40:17 GMT -5
Hah! Maybe. I can be a bit too passionate. I just can't believe that whether or not you think it's PC garbage or what, it's still inappropriate. It's the same as using the N word or other racist slurs. I sometimes feel like I still live in the dark age. Say what you want in the bar with your friends, but acting like that as am acting member of my profession in public. ACK! So far I've got 2 emails in support and 2 people telling me to clam down. There is also the possibility that the speaker really didn't think anything of it and know it was as offensive as you find it.
Perhaps assuming that someone mis-spoke and gently pointing out that that's not acceptable in this day and age without making them feel like they've doomed themselves and need to fight from a corner.
I would find the fact that they are ignorant to the use of the word even worse! Eh, this isn't a pal or a friend. I don't really care about preserving their feelings. It would probably be different if this was someone whom I valued.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Mar 17, 2015 15:42:36 GMT -5
The use of the word was not in terms of slowing something down or friction or anything else where progress might be 'retarded'. I am aware of the dual purpose of words as pointed out previously (homosexual, gay, etc). The context I flipped out about also references to idiots and stupidity. Whaaa proboards turned f a g g o t into homosexual! LOL. I literally meant bag of sticks proboards!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 15:48:02 GMT -5
I've called people out on using the f-word to refer to homosexual men. I've done it at work more than once, and one of the people was my boss. It was always used during casual conversations though and we're not exactly well respected professionals. I just don't like that word. When it was my boss, I asked him "why do you have to call them that?" and he asked me "what am I supposed to call them? Queers? Punks?". Ummm.... how about none of those.
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Jaguar
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Post by Jaguar on Mar 17, 2015 16:29:46 GMT -5
Yes I do call people out for using offensive terms, it's why me and THAT sister do not get along.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 17, 2015 17:08:58 GMT -5
As kids we used that word very casually, meaning of course that someone was acting like a ding dong. We had never seen or even had contact with any kids like those. As society changed and I ended up teaching children with all sorts of issues, it was obviously not a word to be used-ever. But my co-workers called them "speds" short for special Ed. I think that honestly bothered me more because they knew better, knew it was wrong, and did it anyway just to be mean.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 17:46:13 GMT -5
I do, and have, with my (university) students, even though they're not even native English speakers.
In one case, the second class with these students, a student used the N word in a presentation. I was SURE I had misheard ... I mean, that's not possible, right?! Then I saw him snicker at my reaction. I got out of my seat (in the last row, I always sit in the last row for presentations). I got right up into his face and told him VERY CLEARLY that if I ever heard that word or any other word like it for any other minority EVER again I would throw him out of my class for good, and do my damndest to get him thrown out of the school. He told me he wasn't sure what the word meant.
I told him, you are a first year student, this is only my second class with you, so per school policy, you know I am obligated to give you the benefit of the doubt. So be it. But I will be watching you, and if ANYTHING that REMOTELY RESEMBLES this episode EVER happens again, good luck, because you'll need it. I later found out (because of course I signaled that episode to the dean) that he was repeating the year. And then I found out that the summer before, he had done a summer internship with family who owned a real estate agency in the south. :-( Since that episode I have realized that he is clearly not neurotypical. I've had other episodes with him since but nothing like that (playing video games in class).
I'm 5'2" and he's 6'2" so me going up to the front of the class during his presentation was pretty unforgettable, both for me and the other students. Thankfully that's the only time I've ever had to deal with that in my 4 years there.
I had another student who used the same "R" word as the one that bothered Honey. (Honestly I can't remember the context). I calmly explained that that word is NOT used anymore, it's completely outdated, and considered very hurtful now, and that they must NEVER use it, even if they learned it in English class in HS or from their parents (because yes, that word WAS probably taught at some point, the same way as it was used in the US for many years if not decades). I taught them (old) handicapped = (new) disabled, because my DH is disabled. I can GUARANTEE you that nobody in that class will ever use those "old" words again. The girl who used the R word had no ill intentions (unlike the boy who used the N word, who did it to provoke me).
But for MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS to be using that word?! Honey, you definitely did the right thing. That's just inexcusable, and they should be ashamed of themselves. I probably would have added that too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 17:58:59 GMT -5
f.ag = cigarette in British English.
I often say "I'm going out for a homosexual" if I'm going with a UK colleague (my DH is British). My US colleague cracks up every time LOL.
ETA: Proboards changed the first word lol
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 17, 2015 18:05:55 GMT -5
Well, one of the infectious disease doctors, female, from somewhere other than the U.S. used the word retard to refer to the bacteria growth on DH's cultures. As in wanting it not to keep growing. I knew exactly what she meant and I didn't think anything of it at the time but now.....
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 17, 2015 18:06:35 GMT -5
I haven't used it or heard it in any of the old meaning way in decades.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Mar 17, 2015 18:07:45 GMT -5
No, I probably wouldn't say anything.
Given that I'm new, and I've gotten in trouble for running against the grain at work before, I would probably just keep my mouth shut and not go against the grain. The last thing people want is the new guy getting up on his high horse with a holier-than-though speech.
Fortunately, it hasn't been an issue so far.
Among friends, if they use an offensive term, I also usually don't say anything. I figure normally it's not work sacrificing the friendship over.
As they say "pick your battles."
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 18:08:08 GMT -5
Zib lik MJ said, it's a word. But people don't use it about people anymore. I doubt the bacteria would take offense.
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