Ethical question- shady recruiter

[Firebird]

Hi guys,

Ethical question for you. DH had a couple of great interviews this week. He received an offer from Company A today, and promised to give them an answer by Monday. It's a good solid offer which he's leaning toward taking.

Company B was probably also going to make him an offer- unfortunately, the owners can't meet with him until Thursday afternoon.

While discussing this with the recruiter for Company B, she asked him to accept the offer from Company A and meet with the owners of Company B on Thursday anyway. She went on to say that he could always withdraw his acceptance of Company A's offer, should Company B make a better one.

Obviously, he has no intention of doing this. DH is a very honest, straightforward guy. He was extremely uncomfortable that the recruiter even asked him to do this. (With good reason. Someone pulled this little stunt at my last company and we were all super pissed- we made sure EVERYONE in the department was aware of it so we didn't accidentally hire her later. She was a great candidate but we had zero interest in someone who would do that.)

Here's the question. DH wants to email the head of HR for Company B (one of the people he met with in the first interview) to let her know what the recruiter asked him to do. He feels she has a right to know that.

I'm not sure whether he should do that or not. I agree that Company B has a right to know what their recruiter is asking candidates to do, but I'm just not sure if him emailing is a good idea.

Thoughts?

[Jaguar]

He should go with Company A and keep quiet about Company B cause he's not going to be working there.

[Firebird]

He's going with Company A. But he feels Company B should know what the recruiter is asking candidates to do, in case they lose another good one because of it.

[Jaguar]

It's going to shoot him in the foot for the future. If Company A does not work out and he has said something to Company B, do you really think they will hire him. I say this cause he'll have to go to that same recruiter again.

[TheHaitian]

Take job from Company A and shut up about Company B...

It is a small world out there, you never know who that person knows and who you will meet on your way up.

[Firebird]

If I were Company B, I'd appreciate the honesty. Do you really think they're going to hear about her doing this from someone else? Everyone uses the same reasoning for staying out of it. I get the concern, and I share it, but sometimes I wonder what would happen if everyone was just a little more outspoken about unethical behavior.

[Jaguar]

Yes BUT does he even know if Company B doesn't know about this already ?

[Firebird]

If Company B knows and supports what she did, DH wouldn't want to work there anyway.

[Sam_2.0]

Company B knows. I wouldn't bother with it. Not my cup of tea but it seems like this is just par for the course.

[Firebird]

I can see both sides but I told DH I'd support him telling if that's what he chose to do. Just wanted to hear what others thought about the whole thing.

[TheHaitian]

Feb 27, 2015 23:27:31 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I can see both sides but I told DH I'd support him telling if that's what he chose to do. Just wanted to hear what others thought about the whole thing.

You might see it as "unethical" and they might not... Because really I don't.

There is nothing wrong with someone accepting a job offer and still keeping their options open and seeing what company B might offer.

No different than company A offering you a job and rescinding it for some reason: finances, hiring freeze, etc.

In my book I don't see it as unethical, it is not like he signed a contract, took a signing bonus + relo than quit. That would be unethical...

So what might be unethical to you is not unethical to someone else and people talk. Making an enemy out of someone you do not know while it might feel righteous and honest is still foolish in my book.

People within the same business / organization tend to know each other. Don't burn bridges if you don't have too and your husband has nothing to gain from this.

[Miss Tequila]

I'm with Carl on this one. Actually, my boss took another job and then his recruiter sent him this job right after he accepted. It was a much better fit for him and the recruiter knew it.

[cronewitch]

Companies know you have several pending jobs when you accept and might get a better offer soon after accepting and decline after you accepted. Since you didn't start yet it is better to leave quickly than wait a few weeks.  He could tell company A that he has another interview already scheduled so needs a few days to decide but since job B may not happen why not just stay quiet and accept knowing you might decline before starting, it is better to have two offers.

I had a recruiter tell me not to tell a company I couldn't type when they needed someone who typed 40WPM and I typed 17 with ten mistakes. I told them in the interview and they were angry with the recruiter but I couldn't take the job if typing was really important.

[joemilitary]

Don't say anything to company B HR.  It will cause nothing but trouble. 

On paper what you say may seem like "the right thing to do".......but reality is different.

We don't live in an ideal world.....and even though you say your husband wouldn't want to ever work at company B if they knowingly did this.....never say never

[ArchietheDragon]

I don't see the issue.

[Deleted]

First of all, I agree with The Haitian. You gotta look out for yourself.  I've seen people actually start the job and then leave when a better offer came through from a recent interview. It didn't look good but I wouldn't say it caused lasting resentment.   The only guy who caused lasting resentment was a VP level who came in, decided our company was on shaky financial grounds (it wasn't, really) and persuaded his old company to take him back and treat his absence as vacation!

First:  how likely is Company B to come up with something better than Company A?  If DH just accepts Company A's offer and doesn't interview with B, will he be happy or will he wonder what Company B might have offered?  If Company A looks really good, he could accept the offer and be done with it.

If he really wants to pursue B, the honest thing to do is to tell A that he needs X more days (X should be something less than a week).  That shouldn't upset anyone at Company A if they're a class act.  If possible, he should get Company B to promise that they'll have a decision by then.

I wouldn't make waves about the suggestion from Company B's recruiter.  (One does wonder how Company B would react if THEY had a candidate un-accept an offer.)  Although accepting an offer and continuing to interview is frowned upon, it's not fatal.  At my last job we hired a young man who had accepted an offer with the company where he worked 2 summer internships; they'd made him commit very early on (like February).  When he realized our company was local and was hiring, we interviewed him in May and he went with us.  He turned out to be a great employee.  He truly felt bad about rescinding his acceptance with the other company but it was the right decision for him and I don't think he created any resentment at the other company.

 

[geenamercile]

I'm with Carl and Tina, I do not see what they are asking as unethical unless he is signing a contract with them, then I would read the contract and see if there is a probationary time frame in the contract.  I look at probationary periods as a time for both the company and employee to see that they are the best fit for each other.    

[Bonny]

Feb 27, 2015 23:43:12 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Feb 27, 2015 23:27:31 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I can see both sides but I told DH I'd support him telling if that's what he chose to do. Just wanted to hear what others thought about the whole thing.

You might see it as "unethical" and they might not... Because really I don't.

There is nothing wrong with someone accepting a job offer and still keeping their options open and seeing what company B might offer.

No different than company A offering you a job and rescinding it for some reason: finances, hiring freeze, etc.

In my book I don't see it as unethical, it is not like he signed a contract, took a signing bonus + relo than quit. That would be unethical...

So what might be unethical to you is not unethical to someone else and people talk. Making an enemy out of someone you do not know while it might feel righteous and honest is still foolish in my book.

People within the same business / organization tend to know each other. Don't burn bridges if you don't have too and your husband has nothing to gain from this.

From time to time Carl blows me away at how wise he is. I don't think I had this perspective until I was close to 40.

I think you guys are rushing to judgment without knowing the full story. Your DH will come across as a tattle-tail or stirring up stuff. Not good in the long run.

[Ava]

I wouldn't say anything. It can only backfire, and there's no need for that. Yes, what the recruiter did sounds unethical but it's not that big. He doesn't need to make enemies.

No matter what they say, nobody likes a whistle blower. Your husband has nothing to gain from this.

[Firebird]

Glad I advised DH to hold off sending the email for awhile. After sleeping on it, he decided not to say anything.

He's planning to negotiate with Company A a little, but ultimately accept their offer for various reasons.

[finnime]

Feb 27, 2015 23:43:12 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Feb 27, 2015 23:27:31 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I can see both sides but I told DH I'd support him telling if that's what he chose to do. Just wanted to hear what others thought about the whole thing.

You might see it as "unethical" and they might not... Because really I don't.

There is nothing wrong with someone accepting a job offer and still keeping their options open and seeing what company B might offer.

No different than company A offering you a job and rescinding it for some reason: finances, hiring freeze, etc.

In my book I don't see it as unethical, it is not like he signed a contract, took a signing bonus + relo than quit. That would be unethical...

So what might be unethical to you is not unethical to someone else and people talk. Making an enemy out of someone you do not know while it might feel righteous and honest is still foolish in my book.

People within the same business / organization tend to know each other. Don't burn bridges if you don't have too and your husband has nothing to gain from this.

Like The Man said.

I actually had indicated (not committed) that I was happy with an offer from a company, but not yet established a starting date, when another, better offer came along. I was then unsure about the ethics, so called my straight-arrow father. He noted this was not uncommon, and advised me to go with the better offer, and let the first company know I appreciated very much their interest, but. He was right. This was 24 years ago, so you know the way of the world has not changed.

[Firebird]

I guess I'm in the minority, but I do consider accepting an offer, agreeing on a start date, doing all the paperwork, and then continuing the interview process with another company in the hopes of receiving a competing offer before the start date rolls around to be very unethical. And judging by how angry my colleagues were when someone did this to us, people definitely consider it to be unethical when it's being done TO them. Yes, companies look out for number one and so should you (I left a job after two weeks because it was a horrible fit culture wise, so I get it) but there's no need to be blatantly dishonest.

Still, if it's such a gray area then I agree there's nothing to be gained by DH telling. If it doesn't work out with Company A for some reason, he'll now be on solid footing to go back to Company B and ask if the position is still open.

[Phoenix84]

Feb 27, 2015 22:47:32 GMT -5 Jaguar said:

He should go with Company A and keep quiet about Company B cause he's not going to be working there.

Pretty much this.

It's not his job to "tell on" someone else.

[Tennesseer]

I would have put Company B on the hook by telling them to send an offer letter to husband (husband sight unseen or interviewed) and the offer letter to arrive early monday morning before husband was to meet or speak with Company A about his decision.

Company B recruiter would have slithered away.

[Firebird]

As a funny aside, Company A initially told DH that they wouldn't be calling him for a second interview for at least a week- had they stuck to that, he could have easily done a second interview with Company B this week with no conflicts.

However, A ended up liking DH so much that they asked him back the very next day and called him as he was pulling out of the parking lot after that meeting to make him an offer.

Gotta love the irony.

[travelnut11]

I actually had a similar situation happen to me.  I had accepted an offer from Company A when Company B contacted me.  I told B up front that I had already accepted an offer and did not feel right backing out but thanks for your interest (even though Company B would've paid about $10K more).  The recruiter at the time understood, appreciated my honesty and said to keep in touch because you never know what might happen.  I remember thinking at the time "yeah right, Company A will be perfect for me."  Ugh, wrong.  That job ended up being a glorified secretarial position (I'm a computer programmer) and after about a month of misery I finally realized I'd made a mistake and contacted Company B to see if they still had a position open and I've been there ever since (13 years). 

So, you never know what might happen.  Don't burn bridges and keep your options open.  And for the record I don't think the recruiter was being especially shady.  Company A has spent few resources on your husband so far...just interview time.  Like Carl said, it's not like they'd paid for extensive training or a relocation package.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Well, sounds like FBDH has made his decision, so Ill just throw out my CONGRATULATIONS that he got a job!

[Firebird]

Thanks, Chloe We're pretty excited. Now I need one! I've got some good prospects but nothing definite yet. Babybird starts school on Monday, though, which will make searching easier.

[Formerly SK]

I'm so happy for you guys!!  Everything is really falling into place. 

[geenamercile]

Feb 28, 2015 11:13:12 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I guess I'm in the minority, but I do consider accepting an offer, agreeing on a start date, doing all the paperwork, and then continuing the interview process with another company in the hopes of receiving a competing offer before the start date rolls around to be very unethical. And judging by how angry my colleagues were when someone did this to us, people definitely consider it to be unethical when it's being done TO them. Yes, companies look out for number one and so should you (I left a job after two weeks because it was a horrible fit culture wise, so I get it) but there's no need to be blatantly dishonest.

Still, if it's such a gray area then I agree there's nothing to be gained by DH telling. If it doesn't work out with Company A for some reason, he'll now be on solid footing to go back to Company B and ask if the position is still open.

I just had someone do this, the company I'm working for has a 90 day probationary time.  She was actually in the second week of 4 week training.  I didn't think anything of it.  If anything I would say that if your DH wanted to go with company B, then at the most give them the 2 weeks, but really if you are just starting a job most likely they are going to say okay bye.  

Now I do see a difference if you sign a contract, but that normally locks the company/job in just as much as it locks you in.