justme
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Post by justme on Mar 2, 2015 10:44:35 GMT -5
Ah interesting. They can kill lobsters but not rabbits. Wonder why seafood isn't included.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 2, 2015 10:45:49 GMT -5
Rabbits are most often slaughtered and skinned on site; however, a certain percentage are transported to the same slaughterhouses where chickens and turkeys are killed. Like chickens and turkeys, they are not protected by the Humane Methods of Slaughter Act, a federal law that says animals must be rendered insensible to pain before being killed. The two most common forms of slaughter for rabbits are cervical dislocation (neck-breaking) or striking the head with a blunt object. [4]
While some states require inspection of rabbit “meat,” there are no federally mandated inspections.[2] Neither the Federal Meat Inspection Act (FMIA) nor the Poultry Products Inspection Act (PPIA) includes rabbits. [2] Consequently, federal inspection is completely voluntary.
www.foodispower.org/rabbits-raised-for-meat/
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 2, 2015 10:49:09 GMT -5
... I can't imagine the lisenses required to do that in a commercial kitchen either. Remember, we are talking Texas.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Mar 2, 2015 11:07:59 GMT -5
... I can't imagine the lisenses required to do that in a commercial kitchen either. Remember, we are talking Texas. You may have a point there. But for the record the rules and lisenses I was refering to are the ones required by the USDA. Do they still believe in the USDA in Texas?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 2, 2015 11:16:19 GMT -5
Remember, we are talking Texas. You may have a point there. But for the record the rules and lisenses I was refering to are the ones required by the USDA. Do they still believe in the USDA in Texas? We have a kitchen where I work. We are fully state regulated. No federal licenses required.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Mar 2, 2015 11:16:29 GMT -5
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Mar 2, 2015 11:17:20 GMT -5
You may have a point there. But for the record the rules and lisenses I was refering to are the ones required by the USDA. Do they still believe in the USDA in Texas? We have a kitchen where I work. We are fully state regulated. No federal licenses required. You have a commercial kitchen and don't have a health lisence
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 2, 2015 11:25:08 GMT -5
Ah interesting. They can kill lobsters but not rabbits. Wonder why seafood isn't included. Only Alex Forrest drops live rabbits into boiling water.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 2, 2015 11:25:35 GMT -5
From the link in #125: A restaurant that is located right on a rabbit farm, may slaughter their own rabbits and then process them in their own 5-A facility for serving at the restaurant or for sale in their own farm stand. A 20-C license is not acceptable for the slaughtering of any species. This references New York state law.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 2, 2015 11:28:27 GMT -5
We have a kitchen where I work. We are fully state regulated. No federal licenses required. You have a commercial kitchen and don't have a health lisence We are fully state regulated. No federal licenses required.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Mar 2, 2015 11:38:31 GMT -5
You have a commercial kitchen and don't have a health lisence We are fully state regulated. No federal licenses required.Man you are being pedantic. I know it isn't a federal lisence. It is a state lisence. It doesn't mean that it isn't still under the USDA rules and regs regardless of who actually does the leg work. And the other part you quoted "A restaurant that is located right on a rabbit farm, may slaughter their own rabbits and then process them in their own 5-A facility for serving at the restaurant or for sale in their own farm stand. A 20-C license is not acceptable for the slaughtering of any species."it is actualy saying the restaurant needs to do it in their own "5-A" facility and their 20-C license isn't acceptable. That is saying right there that restaurants need a separate facility that is "lisenced" for the slaughtering.
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Mar 2, 2015 12:44:26 GMT -5
They are learning how to cook for a public.....NOT a family. So why do they have to know how to slaughter? Made more sense if teaching for home than a restaurant where the animal are already dead (here anyway), drawn, & quartered.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 2, 2015 13:58:46 GMT -5
... "A restaurant that is located right on a rabbit farm, may slaughter their own rabbits and then process them in their own 5-A facility for serving at the restaurant or for sale in their own farm stand. A 20-C license is not acceptable for the slaughtering of any species."it is actualy saying the restaurant needs to do it in their own "5-A" facility and their 20-C license isn't acceptable. That is saying right there that restaurants need a separate facility that is "lisenced" for the slaughtering. What is an "A-5" facility?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 2, 2015 13:59:43 GMT -5
We are fully state regulated. No federal licenses required. Man you are being pedantic. I know it isn't a federal lisence. It is a state lisence. ... Shit, I thought I was just answering your stupid ass question.
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justme
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Post by justme on Mar 2, 2015 14:29:34 GMT -5
Restaurants are likely to buy meat in primal cuts or larger, so butchering would be something they'd need to know. Only the chains where all the food is shipped in practically already made are things in individual servings.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 2, 2015 14:38:38 GMT -5
Butchering is different from operating a kill floor. A dead animal carcass in the restaurant is quite different from killing a live animal on the premises.
Just to make the distinction. I feel like that is where people are getting confused. Butchering involves breaking down the animal after it has already died and been properly cleaned. A kill floor is where the actual killing occurs.
Kill floors are quite dangerous and the contamination risks are high. The regulations for them are insane and it wouldn't be cost effective for a restaurant to operate its own.
The odds of you ever having to actually kill anything you prepare in a professional kitchen are quite small. You can become a professional cook without watching the teacher kill the rabbit in front of you.
And this is said as someone who kills rodents for a living via snapping their neck with a sharpie. So I'm hardly squeamish when it comes to death.
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Mar 2, 2015 14:39:13 GMT -5
Exactly. They don't slaughter
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Mar 2, 2015 14:40:29 GMT -5
Exactly. They don't slaughter But they do.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 2, 2015 17:47:05 GMT -5
Exactly. They don't slaughter But they do. The cast of Zoolander 2?
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Mar 2, 2015 18:15:52 GMT -5
is it the job of the School to teach 'survival skills"? If so, fine. Then why aren't they teaching canning, starting a fire, purifying water and on and on? There is NO reason to do a live kill of an animal in school. If it is that important to you, then as a parent, you may demonstrate that to YOUR child.
Isn't that what school is supposed to do as far as preparing kids for the real world? How someone defines survival skills can vary greatly but in theory the purpose of publicly funded k-12 is to prepare a kid for the real world to be a functioning member of society. If you found yourself in a situation where you had to kill an animal to survive you can't just bash it over the head with a rock and throw it over the fire. If you don't clean it you're going to wish you had never eaten in the first place. They didn't force the kids to watch and gave them the option to leave the classroom which seems like a good way to treat them like young adults who have to make their own decisions. I live in a state and area that would never do anything like this but I can see why it's something that would be relevant in certain areas. As far as I'm concerned there was no reason for me to have to sit through some of the classes that I did but that taught me a valuable life lesson - sometimes you do things you don't want to because it's required or expected of you. I have never killed an animal. If I had to figure out how to kill one and gut it and eat it, I think I could easily do so.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Mar 2, 2015 18:17:44 GMT -5
Well, I am on the School Board and I would not be in support of this type of demonstration. I don't think it is necessary to a child's school education. What does being on the school board have to do with this? You don't think that irate parents come to School Board meetings? And, School Boards are involved in many aspects of the curriculum as well.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 2, 2015 18:36:18 GMT -5
2015 CFISD Livestock Show Association Show and Sale Feb. 5 - Feb. 7Note the sign at 14/15/16 seconds into the video: Is there a connection between the high school students selling animals for consumption and the high school students being taught to prepare animals for consumption? Did the teacher purchase the animal from a student? Did it lead to discuss and lesson?
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Mar 2, 2015 18:39:24 GMT -5
Too bad we cannot take a poll of how many would register a complaint with the school board if a teacher wasted (or spent -- depending on perspective) a period doing this
FYI: We don't teach raising or slaughtering animals in regular schools. Not enough time with math / science / language / music / English / history / economics / computer science / civics / comparative religion / ect. Which is why home ec (cooking / sewing / cleaning) was omitted. some things are better learned at home
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Mar 2, 2015 18:41:33 GMT -5
I think it would be more of a sensational thing and a distraction. Not sure much would be learned.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 2, 2015 18:59:18 GMT -5
"Hey Teach, I saw you bought a rabbit. What are you going to do with it?" "I am going to butcher it and cook it." "Cool. I wish I knew how to do that." "Yeah, I wish I could also." Me, too" "So do I." "Okay. How many of you are interested? That many? I will do it in class. If you don't want to see it. I will offer an alternative assignment that day you can do in the library."
I think that if a group of students were truly interested in seeing how such a thing was done, and the teacher was willing and capable of showing how to do it well, there would be value. Adults modeling something that they enjoy doing is a good thing.
I remember forty plus years later the day Mr. Erickson came into class with a stack of books, banged them down on his desk, and said, "Today you are going to learn why that Paul McCartney song is a bunch of garbage." And we learned the history of Northern Ireland.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 2, 2015 19:26:54 GMT -5
Too bad we cannot take a poll of how many would register a complaint with the school board if a teacher wasted (or spent -- depending on perspective) a period doing this FYI: We don't teach raising or slaughtering animals in regular schools. Not enough time with math / science / language / music / English / history / economics / computer science / civics / comparative religion / ect. Which is why home ec (cooking / sewing / cleaning) was omitted. some things are better learned at home Did you bother to take a look at the link of the curriculum that the school teaches? Not everyone is a scholar and goes onto college. www.cfisd.net/files/1413/9532/7228/hscourse.pdfThe course selection/curriculum starts on page 15 in this document. While all the classes that you espouse are taught, there are others that are taught for those who are very likely NOT going to go onto college. Culinary Arts is NOT cooking/sewing/cleaning. Chances are, students in this program are already probably pretty good cooks and they are looking to determine if trying to become a chef is going to be their profession. Not everyone is going to go on to take calculus and advanced chemistry, so do you really think that those who find this difficult should do this and fail, rather than try to learn something that they can parlay into a career?
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Mar 2, 2015 19:39:24 GMT -5
"Hey Teach, I saw you bought a rabbit. What are you going to do with it?" "I am going to butcher it and cook it." "Cool. I wish I knew how to do that." "Yeah, I wish I could also." Me, too" "So do I." "Okay. How many of you are interested? That many? I will do it in class. If you don't want to see it. I will offer an alternative assignment that day you can do in the library." I think that if a group of students were truly interested in seeing how such a thing was done, and the teacher was willing and capable of showing how to do it well, there would be value. Adults modeling something that they enjoy doing is a good thing. I remember forty plus years later the day Mr. Erickson came into class with a stack of books, banged them down on his desk, and said, "Today you are going to learn why that Paul McCartney song is a bunch of garbage." And we learned the history of Northern Ireland. I would think a teacher would have more SENSE than to plan to slaughter an animal in school on school property during an assigned class without first discussing it with the Principal and Admin.
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Mar 2, 2015 20:19:35 GMT -5
Too bad we cannot take a poll of how many would register a complaint with the school board if a teacher wasted (or spent -- depending on perspective) a period doing this FYI: We don't teach raising or slaughtering animals in regular schools. Not enough time with math / science / language / music / English / history / economics / computer science / civics / comparative religion / ect. Which is why home ec (cooking / sewing / cleaning) was omitted. some things are better learned at home Did you bother to take a look at the link of the curriculum that the school teaches? Not everyone is a scholar and goes onto college. www.cfisd.net/files/1413/9532/7228/hscourse.pdfThe course selection/curriculum starts on page 15 in this document. While all the classes that you espouse are taught, there are others that are taught for those who are very likely NOT going to go onto college. Culinary Arts is NOT cooking/sewing/cleaning. Chances are, students in this program are already probably pretty good cooks and they are looking to determine if trying to become a chef is going to be their profession. Not everyone is going to go on to take calculus and advanced chemistry, so do you really think that those who find this difficult should do this and fail, rather than try to learn something that they can parlay into a career? yes & I've already stated that the other subjects rightfully belong in vocational high schools (Not to be confused with continuation high school where they go when expelled from regular school). Slaughtering animals is not part of the culinary arts. Butchering might be but not necessarily. The restaurateurs that I know buy specific cuts or quarters. Not live animals
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Mar 2, 2015 20:20:52 GMT -5
"Hey Teach, I saw you bought a rabbit. What are you going to do with it?" "I am going to butcher it and cook it." "Cool. I wish I knew how to do that." "Yeah, I wish I could also." Me, too" "So do I." "Okay. How many of you are interested? That many? I will do it in class. If you don't want to see it. I will offer an alternative assignment that day you can do in the library." I think that if a group of students were truly interested in seeing how such a thing was done, and the teacher was willing and capable of showing how to do it well, there would be value. Adults modeling something that they enjoy doing is a good thing. I remember forty plus years later the day Mr. Erickson came into class with a stack of books, banged them down on his desk, and said, "Today you are going to learn why that Paul McCartney song is a bunch of garbage." And we learned the history of Northern Ireland. I would think a teacher would have more SENSE than to plan to slaughter an animal in school on school property during an assigned class without first discussing it with the Principal and Admin. or that the school board would chastise them for going that far off topic
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 10, 2015 16:20:36 GMT -5
Hey, I want to take that class! I remember in HS some of my friends refused to take Human Anatomy because of the fetal pig dissection. Um, didn't you do the frog dissection in Bio? I remember dissecting a cow's eye in 8th grade IPS, too. What is the difference? Now that I think of it, some HS are going to virtual dissection. Video gamification of education. I just don't understand "protecting" kids from reality. Has that family never eaten a recognisable piece of meat, like a chicken leg, or a roast turkey? Gone to a pig roast? Your child is the result of sexual intercourse. That doesn't mean you'd want them to watch 2 people having sex right there in the classroom I bet. If your child has gone to a funeral before does that mean you'd be ok with your child watching them kill a human being in the classroom? Cooking rabbit has as much to do with killing a rabbit as going to a funeral has to do with killing someone. Yes, they're related, but they aren't necessarily on the same level, and there's no real reason someone experiencing one would need to experience the other.
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