Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 28, 2015 11:18:17 GMT -5
It's not as if freshly butchered and cleaned rabbit could not be bought locally. I cannot speak for the students at this particular school and district, but I do know in this day and age, at least in our country, most of us don't need to slaughter our own food. Sorry, the yeah that was for that post. I knew that and thanks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2015 11:19:31 GMT -5
I'm a little confused by this, as well. I'm not sure why the mother kept her daughter home from school that day. I get it that some kids are more 'sensitive' than others and that confronting the hard cold fact that animals die (especially cute furry ones) so people can eat them is disturbing... but, the kid is a sophomore in HS - that's got to be, what, 15 or 16 years old? Maybe it's time for the kid to face and deal with the Big Existential questions. I'm not sure letting the kid stay home was the right thing to do. I'm NOT saying the kid should have attended that particular class that day - but missing the entire day? You can't keep your kid 'innocent' for their entire life. Yeah, that was kind of my thought. Butchering in a culinary class doesn't sound like a routine thing from what I understand, but I am supportive of things that do drive home the sacrifice of lives. We're omnivores, a bit of meat keeps us glossy, but I eat only tiny bits (we use 1/4 pound in giant pot recipes if required, or more often I sub in other things) because I am aware of that sacrifice. I get really sad when people throw away meat and other foods like it's no big deal. Store it for later or take less, it's not rocket science. Another thing related to what you said that stood out to me: It's only about 2 more years before they can vote and die for the country. They're driving 2,000 pound metal cages (cars) that can paste pedestrians or other drivers if they're not careful. According to the mom at that age they're not ready to choose to see or not see optional instruction on where food comes from? They were making cordon bleu the week before according the article. The meat came from a sacrifice, just one out of sight, out of mind, Marie Antoinette style. I feel like the willful ignorance is part of the reason many people vote with their dollars for animals to live pain filled lives in their own filth for cheaper prices, the better to eat multiple pounds of meat a day. The sacrifice isn't real to them, it's a nebulous concept like "it comes from chickens." Heck, DH, who grew up in the city, thought that brown eggs were painted brown. If you eat something often, I support the optional decision to know what goes into the process.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 28, 2015 11:21:37 GMT -5
I'm a little confused by this, as well. I'm not sure why the mother kept her daughter home from school that day. I get it that some kids are more 'sensitive' than others and that confronting the hard cold fact that animals die (especially cute furry ones) so people can eat them is disturbing... but, the kid is a sophomore in HS - that's got to be, what, 15 or 16 years old? Maybe it's time for the kid to face and deal with the Big Existential questions. I'm not sure letting the kid stay home was the right thing to do. I'm NOT saying the kid should have attended that particular class that day - but missing the entire day? You can't keep your kid 'innocent' for their entire life. Yeah, that was kind of my thought. Butchering in a culinary class doesn't sound like a routine thing from what I understand, but I am supportive of things that do drive home the sacrifice of lives. We're omnivores, a bit of meat keeps us glossy, but I eat only tiny bits (we use 1/4 pound in giant pot recipes if required, or more often I sub in other things) because I am aware of that sacrifice. I get really sad when people throw away meat and other foods like it's no big deal. Store it for later or take less, it's not rocket science. Another thing related to what you said that stood out to me: It's only about 2 more years before they can vote and die for the country. They're driving 2,000 pound metal cages (cars) that can paste pedestrians or other drivers if they're not careful. According to the mom at that age they're not ready to choose to see or not see optional instruction on where food comes from? They were making cordon bleu the week before according the article. The meat came from a sacrifice, just one out of sight, out of mind, Marie Antoinette style. I feel like the willful ignorance is part of the reason many people vote with their dollars for animals to live pain filled lives in their own filth for cheaper prices, the better to eat multiple pounds of meat a day. The sacrifice isn't real to them, it's a nebulous concept like "it comes from chickens." Heck, DH, who grew up in the city, thought that brown eggs were painted brown. If you eat something often, I support the optional decision to know what goes into the process. I understand your reasoning and it makes sense but this almost feels like a PETA thing.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 28, 2015 11:28:45 GMT -5
Frozen turkey bowling is a waste of food and disrespectful to the turkey.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 28, 2015 11:31:55 GMT -5
I know where foix grah or however it's spelled comes from. I know what they do to the animal involved. It upsets me greatly. I can't even bear to read it on a menu. I'd probably never eat meat myself but more fish. But DH is a meat eater and I'm not making two meals.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Feb 28, 2015 11:39:38 GMT -5
I think everybody knows that meat comes from animals. We raise cattle and I have a freezer full of beef but I don't want my kid killing an animal in class. I question that this is a "learning" experience. Restaurants do not get deliveries of live animals and kill them on site. So I'm not sure how this action of killing the rabbit in class relates to culinary learning. IDK, there's the new Urban farming trend - which is starting to include raising chickens and possibly goats in your back yard (I imagine at some point it will include rabbits and ducks and small pigs). Unfortunately animals don't live as long as humans - so eventually your egg laying hen or milk giving goat is going to stop producing. What do you do then? Keep it as a pet? And NOT have eggs/goat milk? Or maybe you are thinking you want to raise your own 'free range, organic' chickens (or goats). I think it's pretty much illegal to butcher animals in most Urban areas. There ARE places you can take your critter to be butchered and returned to you.
But, that's an URBAN area... miles upon miles upon miles of concrete, asphalt and steel and brick. I would think in a more rural area - people might want to raise chickens, rabbits, goats, pigs, etc for food and do their own butchering at home. I don't know where exactly the HS in the article is but if it's someplace vaguely rural maybe it's legal to slaughter your own 'livestock' and the class was intending to teach the proper way to do it. You gotta learn from someone.
I remember my mom attempting to teach me how to cut up a whole chicken - back in the day it was cheaper to buy a whole chicken at the grocery and cut it up yourself than to buy an already cut up chicken. Now a days you just buy packages of cut up chicken. - My mom had no patience and while I wasn't squeamish about doing it - we had a lot of 'buttons' between the two of us that got pushed so it didn't go well. About 5 years ago I watch a bunch of videos and then ate alot of chicken one winter while I 'practiced' cutting up the whole chickens I purchased. Maybe I'm just not the brightest most dexterous bulb in the lamp - it took me a bit of practice to get it right.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 28, 2015 11:43:22 GMT -5
My aunt and uncle do this and DH always asks them, if my aunt serves chicken, if this was a "friend" of his.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 28, 2015 11:45:08 GMT -5
... I don't know where exactly the HS in the article is but if it's someplace vaguely rural maybe it's legal to slaughter your own 'livestock' and the class was intending to teach the proper way to do it. ... Reply #15 has a link to a story about the district's student livestock sell.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 28, 2015 11:57:56 GMT -5
We bought an employees sons 4H pig. Even took a family photo with it. But it went off to the nice butcher shop and came back in packages. I didn't have to watch someone kill it. Does raise an interesting question though. Next time I see employee, I'll ask if they slaughter their own.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Feb 28, 2015 11:59:50 GMT -5
Does she object to throwing a live lobster or crab into boiling water? Not the worst thing to learn, you may one day end up is a survival situation (not likely but still) and that one lesson could come in handy. If you object that strongly, skip class that day is it the job of the School to teach 'survival skills"? If so, fine. Then why aren't they teaching canning, starting a fire, purifying water and on and on? There is NO reason to do a live kill of an animal in school. If it is that important to you, then as a parent, you may demonstrate that to YOUR child.
Isn't that what school is supposed to do as far as preparing kids for the real world? How someone defines survival skills can vary greatly but in theory the purpose of publicly funded k-12 is to prepare a kid for the real world to be a functioning member of society. If you found yourself in a situation where you had to kill an animal to survive you can't just bash it over the head with a rock and throw it over the fire. If you don't clean it you're going to wish you had never eaten in the first place. They didn't force the kids to watch and gave them the option to leave the classroom which seems like a good way to treat them like young adults who have to make their own decisions. I live in a state and area that would never do anything like this but I can see why it's something that would be relevant in certain areas. As far as I'm concerned there was no reason for me to have to sit through some of the classes that I did but that taught me a valuable life lesson - sometimes you do things you don't want to because it's required or expected of you.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Feb 28, 2015 12:05:48 GMT -5
I'm sorry but no way this isn't a stunt. Killing and butchering an animal for consumption is a very specific skill and 99% of people don't have it! There is a reason so many people get sick from food born illnesses. Doing this in a classroom won't be a good way to do anything other than see if he could horrify some kids before they give them ecoli.
Unless he finds it fun to kill things and wants to make a few converts. Either way nothing good is planned from this.
And before someone says I am anti something DH and his family were farmers and had cattle and hunted. They always ate what they killed but in no way did they ever find it fun.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 28, 2015 12:06:05 GMT -5
is it the job of the School to teach 'survival skills"? If so, fine. Then why aren't they teaching canning, starting a fire, purifying water and on and on? There is NO reason to do a live kill of an animal in school. If it is that important to you, then as a parent, you may demonstrate that to YOUR child.
Isn't that what school is supposed to do as far as preparing kids for the real world? How someone defines survival skills can vary greatly but in theory the purpose of publicly funded k-12 is to prepare a kid for the real world to be a functioning member of society. If you found yourself in a situation where you had to kill an animal to survive you can't just bash it over the head with a rock and throw it over the fire. If you don't clean it you're going to wish you had never eaten in the first place. They didn't force the kids to watch and gave them the option to leave the classroom which seems like a good way to treat them like young adults who have to make their own decisions. I live in a state and area that would never do anything like this but I can see why it's something that would be relevant in certain areas. As far as I'm concerned there was no reason for me to have to sit through some of the classes that I did but that taught me a valuable life lesson - sometimes you do things you don't want to because it's required or expected of you. Thats a good thought, too. I'd be reduced to eating our cats! One is REALLY fat.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Feb 28, 2015 12:09:20 GMT -5
Well, I am on the School Board and I would not be in support of this type of demonstration. I don't think it is necessary to a child's school education. What does being on the school board have to do with this?
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Feb 28, 2015 12:12:13 GMT -5
I guess I'm not sure what we are debating. Are we debating the demonstration happening at all? Are we debating that the parents should have been specifically informed about this specific demonstration? Something else?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 28, 2015 12:12:41 GMT -5
Because they make a lot of the calls they go on in the classroom.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Feb 28, 2015 12:13:33 GMT -5
Because they make a lot of the calls they go on in the classroom. I disagree with that perception. And, my struggle with shooby's comment has more to do with the pomposity with which she delivered it and the implication that someone on a school board has a more worthy opinion than anyone else in this board regarding this topic.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Feb 28, 2015 12:16:20 GMT -5
Well, I am on the School Board and I would not be in support of this type of demonstration. I don't think it is necessary to a child's school education. What does being on the school board have to do with this? It allows one to exert their influence so they can try to push what they believe should happen or in cases like this what shouldn't happen in schools. That's the irony of a discussion like this because it's an issue of something someone is or isn't comfortable with that they think the rest of society should agree with or abide by. The entire discussion it really a moot point when no one was actually required to stay and watch so it shouldn't be an issue unless it's illegal or against school guidelines (maybe it is haven't looked that much into it).
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 28, 2015 12:19:15 GMT -5
Then you elect school board members just like politicians who reflect your views.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Feb 28, 2015 12:19:56 GMT -5
What does being on the school board have to do with this? It allows one to exert their influence so they can try to push what they believe should happen or in cases like this what shouldn't happen in schools. That's the irony of a discussion like this because it's an issue of something someone is or isn't comfortable with that they think the rest of society should agree with or abide by. The entire discussion it really a moot point when no one was actually required to stay and watch so it shouldn't be an issue unless it's illegal or against school guidelines (maybe it is haven't looked that much into it). Anyone can exert their influence in a public school. Being on the school board means representing the people in your school district. It does not mean that a school board member's opinion is more valuable than anyone else's. And while something like this certainly could be voted on by a school board, my problem was shooby's arrogance embedded in her statement. I don't believe that arrogance is a sign of being a good school board member.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 28, 2015 12:20:06 GMT -5
Of course the politicians we elect don't listen to us, either.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Feb 28, 2015 12:21:35 GMT -5
Of course the politicians we elect don't listen to us, either. True dat.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 28, 2015 12:25:47 GMT -5
I've only been exposed to one school board. Everyone on it thought they were God. No offense to God or Shooby.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 28, 2015 12:28:46 GMT -5
I wonder if the teacher just get a wild hare up his/her ass and decide to kill and cook it or is this a normal thing done in the class each year? LOL!
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Feb 28, 2015 12:30:04 GMT -5
It allows one to exert their influence so they can try to push what they believe should happen or in cases like this what shouldn't happen in schools. That's the irony of a discussion like this because it's an issue of something someone is or isn't comfortable with that they think the rest of society should agree with or abide by. The entire discussion it really a moot point when no one was actually required to stay and watch so it shouldn't be an issue unless it's illegal or against school guidelines (maybe it is haven't looked that much into it). Anyone can exert their influence in a public school. Being on the school board means representing the people in your school district. It does not mean that a school board member's opinion is more valuable than anyone else's. And while something like this certainly could be voted on by a school board, my problem was shooby's arrogance embedded in her statement. I don't believe that arrogance is a sign of being a good school board member. In theory yes but it's still a position of power more so than John or Jane Doe who show up to voice their concerns. I think shooby's arrogance which you pointed out is exactly how some people view those positions whether it's the person on the board or the parent showing up to voice their opinion at a meeting. It's herd mentality because if people don't speak up when board members are voicing opinions it can be an uphill battle and there's always politics involved.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Feb 28, 2015 12:32:52 GMT -5
I've only been exposed to one school board. Everyone on it thought they were God. No offense to God or Shooby. I've seen a few instances of this when I was growing up. Even if it wasn't everyone on the board there was always that loudest member who was the most argumentative or confrontational that threw his or her weight around like they were in charge and worst of all they were condescending.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 28, 2015 12:35:07 GMT -5
I guess I'm not sure what we are debating. Are we debating the demonstration happening at all? Are we debating that the parents should have been specifically informed about this specific demonstration? Something else? Well....I guess now we are discussing whether Shooby's post was arrogant or not.
I'm not sure why.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 28, 2015 12:40:57 GMT -5
I don't think it was. I'm not on the school board but I'd be at the meeting wanting an explanation of this barbarity.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 28, 2015 12:41:38 GMT -5
So I'm arrogant and opinionated too because I think this is horrible.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 28, 2015 12:44:56 GMT -5
I don't think it was. I'm not on the school board but I'd be at the meeting wanting an explanation of this barbarity. I, too, would love to hear an explanation of why the teacher felt that this was an appropriate lesson for this class at the point in time it was done. I would, however, wait to hear explanation before labeling it anything.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 28, 2015 12:51:44 GMT -5
Makes sense.
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