OK GOP tryting to defund AP history courses over content

[Deleted]

Yes, some states have a state curriculum. So books aren't purchased for one district, but the entire state. Therefore textbook manufacturers cater to those states... Texas and Florida... Not remembering the others right now? California?

[b2r]

 


   $20 million divided by 1400 students = $14,285.71   Still, apparently half what the district spends...

 The public schools in Washington, D.C., spent $29,349 per pupil in the 2010-2011 school year, according to the latest data from National Center for Education Statistics, but in 2013 fully 83 percent of the eighth graders in these schools were not "proficient" in reading and 81 percent were not "proficient" in math.

www.cnsnews.com/commentary/terence-p-jeffrey/dc-schools-29349-pupil-83-not-proficient-reading

 Washington D.C.

One of the more well-known voucher programs, Washington D.C.’s Opportunity Scholarship Programis aimed at low-income families. Unlike other voucher programs across the country, the federal government funds D.C.'s voucher program, which runs separately from its public school system.

To participate, parents first must choose a school that they want to send their child to. (Go here for a list of participating private schools.) Once a child is accepted, parents apply online and must meet income requirements in order to get a scholarship to pay for tuition. Vouchers are good for only one year, so parents must re-apply each year. Voucher amounts range from $8,000 for elementary school to $12,000 for high school.

Congress has heavily debated continuing this program. Initially authorized to last five years, it was renewed in 2011 as part of a larger package signed by President Barack Obama to avoid a government shutdown. Though reauthorization meant another five years, in 2012 Obama proposed cutting the program’s funding. After outcry from many in congress, the U.S. Department of Education agreed to restore funding for another year.


www.greatschools.org/school-choice/7200-school-vouchers.gs


www.dcscholarships.org/

[djAdvocate]

Feb 23, 2015 13:01:58 GMT -5 b2r said:

 


   $20 million divided by 1400 students = $14,285.71   Still, apparently half what the district spends...

i thought it said 285.  1400/285*14k = $70k.

so, what was the 285 number?

$14k seems like a fair amount, but it is still below average for a private school, i believe.

PS- cns is not a news source.  it is a propaganda tool for Brent Bozell The Clown and his Merry Band Of Press Haters.    so, i call bullshit on the $30k figure.  the nationwide average is less than 1/4 of that.

[mroped]

So, acording to a 2012 or 2013 stat, in Pa we educate a student for about $14,500 a year.
That is the stat for public schools ofcourse.

Now, why is it in DC$29000 or more?
It seems to me that their students are failling at a very high rate while spending more money than everyone else.
Who is the bad: students or teachers. One of them has to be since the results are so deplorable.
Is throwing money at the problem gonna solve the problem?
Why does the fed budget give vouchers to DC and not for the rest of the country?

Are DC kids more special than others?

[973beachbum]

Feb 23, 2015 14:43:07 GMT -5 mroped said:

So, acording to a 2012 or 2013 stat, in Pa we educate a student for about $14,500 a year.
That is the stat for public schools ofcourse.

Now, why is it in DC$29000 or more?
It seems to me that their students are failling at a very high rate while spending more money than everyone else.
Who is the bad: students or teachers. One of them has to be since the results are so deplorable.
Is throwing money at the problem gonna solve the problem?
Why does the fed budget give vouchers to DC and not for the rest of the country?

Are DC kids more special than others?

MrOped it is a very simple average.  They literally take every single kid and add up their expenses and divide by the number of every kid in the district/state.  In our district I think the avg ends up at $19K a kid.  What makes it so high a number are the students who have special placements paid for by the district or special services. 

In this district we have a few students whose out of district placement costs over $200,000 a year.   For others who have one on one aides that alone can cost an additional $40K a year.  Just special transportation can cost as much as 20% of the cost of educating students sometimes. 

I have no idea what the issues are in DC but just from my own poking around in my district I know that those numbers hold a lot of stuff in them that wasn't imediately obvious to me. 

[djAdvocate]

data like this can be severely cherry-picked.  for that reason, cns is almost certain to be, basically, lying.

[Deleted]

Public schooling is on the way out, because it is failing.  A person could construct a solid 12 year or more education from youtube and the occasional tutor. 

[billisonboard]

Feb 22, 2015 21:13:30 GMT -5 @hickle said:

.... Public schools are failing. ...

Feb 23, 2015 19:09:30 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Public schooling is on the way out, because it is failing. ...

Since you have stated this twice, I thought I would ask you to explain by what criteria you are declaring this as true.

[Deleted]

Feb 23, 2015 19:31:08 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 22, 2015 21:13:30 GMT -5 @hickle said:

.... Public schools are failing. ...

Feb 23, 2015 19:09:30 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Public schooling is on the way out, because it is failing. ...

Since you have stated this twice, I thought I would ask you to explain by what criteria you are declaring this as true.

Almost half of all black males do not graduate. Kids are drugged to stop fidgeting. It costs tens of thousands of dollars per student in some states to educate. Many teachers suspected of bad teaching are paid to just sit and not have anything to do with students. Every week I read about some kid that was suspended from school for doing something that was  perfectly ordinary 20 years ago.  The biting a pop tart into the shape of a gun, comes to mind.  That kid was expelled. Kids are expelled for having aspirin.  It is just idiotic and it impacts real people. It teaches against common sense.

When students should not have respect for the school they go to, that school is failing, in my opinion, and any school that does some of the things mentioned above does not deserve respect, again imo.

[billisonboard]

Feb 23, 2015 19:48:42 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Feb 23, 2015 19:31:08 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Since you have stated this twice, I thought I would ask you to explain by what criteria you are declaring this as true.

Almost half of all black males do not graduate. Kids are drugged to stop fidgeting. It costs tens of thousands of dollars per student in some states to educate. Many teachers suspected of bad teaching are paid to just sit and not have anything to do with students. Every week I read about some kid that was suspended from school for doing something that was  perfectly ordinary 20 years ago.  The biting a pop tart into the shape of a gun, comes to mind.  That kid was expelled. Kids are expelled for having aspirin.  It is just idiotic and it impacts real people. It teaches against common sense.

Graduation rates across the board at or near historic highs. Those kids who are drugged used to be kicked out. We have kids in school with problems that would have excluded them from public education years ago that are very expensive. There have always been bad teachers. There are kids who are not suspended who used to be also - yes the rules have changed as to why kids are expelled but kids have always been expelled for not meeting expectations.

[Deleted]

Feb 23, 2015 19:57:20 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 23, 2015 19:48:42 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Almost half of all black males do not graduate. Kids are drugged to stop fidgeting. It costs tens of thousands of dollars per student in some states to educate. Many teachers suspected of bad teaching are paid to just sit and not have anything to do with students. Every week I read about some kid that was suspended from school for doing something that was  perfectly ordinary 20 years ago.  The biting a pop tart into the shape of a gun, comes to mind.  That kid was expelled. Kids are expelled for having aspirin.  It is just idiotic and it impacts real people. It teaches against common sense.

Graduation rates across the board at or near historic highs. Those kids who are drugged used to be kicked out. We have kids in school with problems that would have excluded them from public education years ago that are very expensive. There have always been bad teachers. There are kids who are not suspended who used to be also - yes the rules have changed as to why kids are expelled but kids have always been expelled for not meeting expectations.

So you think public schools are doing a good job?  If graduation rates are at an all time high and half of black males don't graduate, then doesn't that suggest to you that things have been bad long enough?  Does it give you comfort thinking "there has always been bad teachers" if it is a family member missing out on a good education?  They can always hope for better next year, I guess.  Kids have always been expelled for some reason, but not for such ridiculous reasons, and not good students who worked hard and made a mistake that had no bad consequence other then the punishment meted out.

eta: Expelled not only for no bad consequence except for the punishment, but no chance of a bad consequence, the pop tart example mentioned above.  Or the person with a forgotten knife that  realizes he has and tries to give to a teacher, only to be expelled.

[billisonboard]

Feb 23, 2015 20:03:30 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Feb 23, 2015 19:57:20 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Graduation rates across the board at or near historic highs. Those kids who are drugged used to be kicked out. We have kids in school with problems that would have excluded them from public education years ago that are very expensive. There have always been bad teachers. There are kids who are not suspended who used to be also - yes the rules have changed as to why kids are expelled but kids have always been expelled for not meeting expectations.

So you think public schools are doing a good job?  If graduation rates are at an all time high and half of black males don't graduate, then doesn't that suggest to you that things have been bad long enough?  Does it give you comfort thinking "there has always been bad teachers" if it is a family member missing out on a good education?  They can always hope for better next year, I guess.  Kids have always been expelled for some reason, but not for such ridiculous reasons, and not good students who worked hard and made a mistake that had no bad consequence other then the punishment meted out.

I think that expectations of what schools can accomplish are absurd. But I think they are better than:

[Tennesseer]

Black male graduation rates



Scott Foundation for Public Education

[Deleted]

Ouch. That still isn't good Tenn.

[Tennesseer]

Feb 23, 2015 20:25:03 GMT -5 oped said:

Ouch. That still isn't good Tenn.

Not great. But 59% is much closer to 60% than 50%.

[Deleted]

60 isn't good... You also need to consider population concentrations. 

[EVT1]

Feb 23, 2015 19:09:30 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Public schooling is on the way out, because it is failing.  A person could construct a solid 12 year or more education from youtube and the occasional tutor. 

      "See, the sad thing about a guy like you is, in 50 years you're gonna start doin' some thinkin' on your own and you're going to come up with the fact that there are two certainties in life: one, don't do that, and two, you dropped 150 grand on a fuckin' education you could have got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library! "

I have watched some of the free lectures Harvard and MIT have online- it is awesome they are making them available. A little drive and curiosity and one could skip college- of course you will be locked out of certain jobs and lack connections- but someone with an entrepreneurial streak could get a huge head start not spending the tuition.  It's all out there- need to learn a new programming language- no problem.  Hell need to learn a new language- no problem.  Once a person learns how to learn the sky is the limit.

 

[EVT1]

And the GOP can try to whitewash history all it wants- the smart people will find the truth- but it isn't the smart people they are interested in here- it is the people that will never make it through college, the average dipshits that they want to turn into voters. 

[djAdvocate]

Feb 23, 2015 22:09:34 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

And the GOP can try to whitewash history all it wants- the smart people will find the truth- but it isn't the smart people they are interested in here- it is the people that will never make it through college, the average dipshits that they want to turn into voters. 

unfortunately, the political class drink an awful lot of kool-aid, EVT.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 23, 2015 19:09:30 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Public schooling is on the way out, because it is failing.  A person could construct a solid 12 year or more education from youtube and the occasional tutor. 

then prepare for the third-worldification of the US.

me? i am not going to let that happen if i have any fight left in me.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 23, 2015 19:57:20 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 23, 2015 19:48:42 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Almost half of all black males do not graduate. Kids are drugged to stop fidgeting. It costs tens of thousands of dollars per student in some states to educate. Many teachers suspected of bad teaching are paid to just sit and not have anything to do with students. Every week I read about some kid that was suspended from school for doing something that was  perfectly ordinary 20 years ago.  The biting a pop tart into the shape of a gun, comes to mind.  That kid was expelled. Kids are expelled for having aspirin.  It is just idiotic and it impacts real people. It teaches against common sense.

Graduation rates across the board at or near historic highs. Those kids who are drugged used to be kicked out. We have kids in school with problems that would have excluded them from public education years ago that are very expensive. There have always been bad teachers. There are kids who are not suspended who used to be also - yes the rules have changed as to why kids are expelled but kids have always been expelled for not meeting expectations.

you'd better watch it, bills, or you will be declared rosy. 

[djAdvocate]

Feb 23, 2015 20:03:30 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Feb 23, 2015 19:57:20 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Graduation rates across the board at or near historic highs. Those kids who are drugged used to be kicked out. We have kids in school with problems that would have excluded them from public education years ago that are very expensive. There have always been bad teachers. There are kids who are not suspended who used to be also - yes the rules have changed as to why kids are expelled but kids have always been expelled for not meeting expectations.

So you think public schools are doing a good job?  If graduation rates are at an all time high and half of black males don't graduate, then doesn't that suggest to you that things have been bad long enough? 

actually, what it suggests is one of three things:

1) that black graduation rates used to be worse than they are now or
2) that white graduation rates used to be worse than they are now or
3) both.

i am betting it is mostly #1, which makes the constant harping about how bad blacks are doing....interesting?

[djAdvocate]

behold!

[Deleted]

Wow Hispanic. ... Just to say, 4+ years of high school doesn't automatically = graduated.

[djAdvocate]

either that chart is totally wrong, or it makes me wonder why i am reading so much about black graduation rates.

[Deleted]

Feb 23, 2015 22:52:36 GMT -5 oped said:

Wow Hispanic. ... Just to say, 4+ years of high school doesn't automatically = graduated.

Good point. A student (of any race) could fail 9th grade 4 times and still honestly say he/she had "4 years of high school".

[Deleted]

Also, but a separate issue (so I made it a separate post), in too many cases "graduating" just means "was there for 4 years"... but didn't learn a damn thing.

According to a study conducted in late April by the U.S. Department of Education and the National Institute of Literacy, 32 million adults in the U.S. can't read. That's 14 percent of the population. 21 percent of adults in the U.S. read below a 5th grade level, and 19 percent of high school graduates can't read.

Source - Huffington Post

(bolding mine)

[djAdvocate]

that (literacy) number has been flat for basically 20 years.  i am not saying that is great.  in fact, it sucks.  because clearly, some groups (ie black women) are doing a LOT better than 20 years ago.  which means that some OTHER groups are doing much worse.

incidentally, the CIA must account for literacy differently, because they rate our literacy at 99%.  i am not actually criticizing the statistic you just posted.  it seems about right to me.  of my 9 employees that i directly supervise, none can spell as well as i can, and i am not a very good speller.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 23, 2015 22:52:36 GMT -5 oped said:

Wow Hispanic. ... Just to say, 4+ years of high school doesn't automatically = graduated.

it is surprisingly difficult to find that information over long periods of time like the chart i posted.

[mmhmm]

In my lifetime I've met very, very few people who couldn't read. I've met many who didn't spell well and many who didn't read for pleasure; however, the few I've met who didn't read or write were older, very rural folk here in South Carolina.