djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 22, 2015 13:36:40 GMT -5
Barack knows...Is he a Republican plant? i have always felt he is a moderate republican. a real liberal would not even SAY some of the shit he says.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 22, 2015 13:38:51 GMT -5
Why do I think those responsible have misplaced the rock in their example? It is supposed to be what one sits on while the head is filled with great things. It is not supposed to take the place of the head.
educating on a rock is just fine, so long as you are not getting sand, wind, rain, or snow blowing sideways into your face while you are doing it. for those occasions, i think classrooms are much preferable. but if Brat wants to use a rock under all circumstances, including night time and cold, hard, dry windless winters, he can be our guest.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 22, 2015 13:43:34 GMT -5
To be fair, many republicans also want school choice which would allow students to go to schools that better fit their wants. What many want is for my tax dollars to be sent to schools the governence of which I have no representation. bills- i have no idea why this argument is lost on the people who basically say "privatize everything". if you want to employ private enterprise, it should be done privately. why is that so confusing?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 22, 2015 13:51:43 GMT -5
... If you mean something else, I do not understand your post. I pay tax dollars to my local school district. I vote for members of the board that runs those schools. There is a local school that is privately run. None of my tax dollars go to it. I have no say on who runs that school. Some people want my tax dollars to be taken from the school that I do have a say in how it is run and given to a school I have no say in how it is run.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 13:55:02 GMT -5
What many want is for my tax dollars to be sent to schools the governence of which I have no representation. bills- i have no idea why this argument is lost on the people who basically say "privatize everything". if you want to employ private enterprise, it should be done privately. why is that so confusing? If you are talking about school choice, many people want that to avoid the problem being discussed in this very thread. Why would you want to be limited to a bad school that teaches false history? Choice could eliminate that. If you are talking about getting rid of government involved schooling, many who want choice would be happy with that.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 22, 2015 13:57:08 GMT -5
bills- i have no idea why this argument is lost on the people who basically say "privatize everything". if you want to employ private enterprise, it should be done privately. why is that so confusing? If you are talking about school choice, many people want that to avoid the problem being discussed in this very thread. Why would you want to be limited to a bad school that teaches false history? Choice could eliminate that. If you are talking about getting rid of government involved schooling, many who want choice would be happy with that. Then stop taxing for schools.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 14:00:59 GMT -5
... If you mean something else, I do not understand your post. I pay tax dollars to my local school district. I vote for members of the board that runs those schools. There is a local school that is privately run. None of my tax dollars go to it. I have no say on who runs that school. Some people want my tax dollars to be taken from the school that I do have a say in how it is run and given to a school I have no say in how it is run. That is a problem. How do you feel about people in Texas having to pay taxes to the local school district that will be teaching false history? If they have children and can not afford private schooling then they pay taxes to something they find wrong, and have their children indoctrinated with the false knowlege. Some people are going to be on the losing side of an argument. So saying 'get involved in your school board' what some people might reply, is not always a winning possibility.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 14:02:45 GMT -5
eta: could not figure out how to format it so quotes were right,
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 22, 2015 14:24:34 GMT -5
I pay tax dollars to my local school district. I vote for members of the board that runs those schools. There is a local school that is privately run. None of my tax dollars go to it. I have no say on who runs that school. Some people want my tax dollars to be taken from the school that I do have a say in how it is run and given to a school I have no say in how it is run. That is a problem. How do you feel about people in Texas having to pay taxes to the local school district that will be teaching false history? If they have children and can not afford private schooling then they pay taxes to something they find wrong, and have their children indoctrinated with the false knowlege. Some people are going to be on the losing side of an argument. So saying 'get involved in your school board' what some people might reply, is not always a winning possibility. The first thing is to understand that you do not pay school district taxes to educate your kids. You are paying for public schooling for all your fellow youthful citizens to be educated. In this country, parents are allowed to opt out of that system for their children. I support them being able to do that. However, that choice should not impact either their or my tax money that pays for public schools. Yes, we don't always get our way in elections.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 14:31:27 GMT -5
That is a problem. How do you feel about people in Texas having to pay taxes to the local school district that will be teaching false history? If they have children and can not afford private schooling then they pay taxes to something they find wrong, and have their children indoctrinated with the false knowlege. Some people are going to be on the losing side of an argument. So saying 'get involved in your school board' what some people might reply, is not always a winning possibility. The first thing is to understand that you do not pay school district taxes to educate your kids. You are paying for public schooling for all your fellow youthful citizens to be educated. In this country, parents are allowed to opt out of that system for their children. I support them being able to do that. However, that choice should not impact either their or my tax money that pays for public schools. Yes, we don't always get our way in elections. We don't always get much choice in how our children are educated either, if we do not have money for private schooling. Though we may pay a lot in property taxes over a lifetime that goes to local schools.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 22, 2015 15:01:46 GMT -5
bills- i have no idea why this argument is lost on the people who basically say "privatize everything". if you want to employ private enterprise, it should be done privately. why is that so confusing? If you are talking about school choice, many people want that to avoid the problem being discussed in this very thread. Why would you want to be limited to a bad school that teaches false history? Choice could eliminate that. If you are talking about getting rid of government involved schooling, many who want choice would be happy with that. if you want to play this game, let's be honest: the rich already have school choice. it is really the poor that do not. so, skewing the system more in favor of the rich does not actually improve choice in the general sense- it merely deprives those WITHOUT the opportunity presented by wealth of the resources they need to get a quality education. so, what you actually mean by "choice" is pretty much precisely the opposite of choice.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 22, 2015 15:03:53 GMT -5
I pay tax dollars to my local school district. I vote for members of the board that runs those schools. There is a local school that is privately run. None of my tax dollars go to it. I have no say on who runs that school. Some people want my tax dollars to be taken from the school that I do have a say in how it is run and given to a school I have no say in how it is run. That is a problem. How do you feel about people in Texas having to pay taxes to the local school district that will be teaching false history? If they have children and can not afford private schooling then they pay taxes to something they find wrong, and have their children indoctrinated with the false knowlege. Some people are going to be on the losing side of an argument. So saying 'get involved in your school board' what some people might reply, is not always a winning possibility. your system in Texas sucks. that doesn't mean that it is awful everywhere. nor do we wish it to be.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 15:17:31 GMT -5
I do not like the rich. I think most of the truly rich are probably thieves. They manipulate the laws to lessen competition, they push for subsidies to fund things that profit themselves and their friends, they are selfish, greedy thieves. Why would I want to skew the system in favor of them? How does giving a voucher for choice to someone making tens of thousands of dollars a year do the opposite of what I want, i.e. provide choices for students to get a better education?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 22, 2015 15:36:23 GMT -5
... We don't always get much choice in how our children are educated either, if we do not have money for private schooling. Though we may pay a lot in property taxes over a lifetime that goes to local schools. Your tax dollars, no matter a lot or a little, have absolutely nothing to do with educating your children.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 15:45:41 GMT -5
... We don't always get much choice in how our children are educated either, if we do not have money for private schooling. Though we may pay a lot in property taxes over a lifetime that goes to local schools. Your tax dollars, no matter a lot or a little, have absolutely nothing to do with educating your children. Where do public schools get their funding? I am unclear on what your argument is.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 22, 2015 16:02:06 GMT -5
Your tax dollars, no matter a lot or a little, have absolutely nothing to do with educating your children. Where do public schools get their funding? I am unclear on what your argument is. If you have zero children in school, your tax is "X". If you have one child in school, your tax is the exact same "X". If you have six children in school, your tax is the exact same "X". As your children age out of school, your tax remains the exact same "X". Why? Why doesn't it change? Because your tax is in no way connected to your children. Therefore any argument that includes a connection began "my kids" and "my taxes" is invalid.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 22, 2015 16:31:09 GMT -5
@hickle, and BTW welcome to the board. It is unfortunate that our first interaction involves a pet peeve of mine. Glad you are here.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 18:38:53 GMT -5
Of course you don't need an ejukashun. Or schools, for that matter. You just need a rock.
During a House Education and Workforce Committee proceeding on Wednesday to reauthorize the nation’s elementary and secondary education law, Rep. Dave Brat (R-VA) said, “Socrates trained Plato in on a rock and then Plato trained in Aristotle roughly speaking on a rock. So, huge funding is not necessary to achieve the greatest minds and the greatest intellects in history.”
thinkprogress.org/education/2015/02/13/3623158/brat-education-plato/
I perched my heinie upon what was purported to be that very rock. Not one scintilla of genius seeped through. That was your problem... To get wisdom from the rock, you are supposed to sit like Mork...
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 22, 2015 18:52:30 GMT -5
Dayum, @richardintn! Why didn't anybody tell me? Of course, I don't think I could have buried my head in that rock. It was a pretty hard rock.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 19:07:08 GMT -5
The harder you smash your head into the rock of wisdom... the more wisdom that seeps into your head.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 22, 2015 19:17:26 GMT -5
The harder you smash your head into the rock of wisdom... the more wisdom that seeps into your head. Why do I hear the voice of my wise old grandmother telling me: "Don't listen to that hogwash!" ?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 22, 2015 20:46:14 GMT -5
I do not like the rich. I think most of the truly rich are probably thieves. They manipulate the laws to lessen competition, they push for subsidies to fund things that profit themselves and their friends, they are selfish, greedy thieves. Why would I want to skew the system in favor of them? How does giving a voucher for choice to someone making tens of thousands of dollars a year do the opposite of what I want, i.e. provide choices for students to get a better education? really? you don't know the answer to that? edit: i actually thought i explained it pretty well in post #43. if you are wealthy, you are not going to use public schools. you are going to send your kid to private schools, whether you have a voucher system or NOT. wouldn't want them rubbing elbows with the "little people" after all. if you get a voucher, you can pay your slip rent, but it won't change your kid's educational outcomes. however, it might bankrupt your local public school. if, on the other hand, you are poor, and you get a $500 voucher, it will not get your kid into a private school, any more than a $500 voucher will get you a 2 week vacation in Prague. vouchers will not cover even HALF the cost, which you can't afford to pay ANYTHING for- or you would not be sending you kids to public. does that make sense?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 21:13:30 GMT -5
I do not like the rich. I think most of the truly rich are probably thieves. They manipulate the laws to lessen competition, they push for subsidies to fund things that profit themselves and their friends, they are selfish, greedy thieves. Why would I want to skew the system in favor of them? How does giving a voucher for choice to someone making tens of thousands of dollars a year do the opposite of what I want, i.e. provide choices for students to get a better education? really? you don't know the answer to that? edit: i actually thought i explained it pretty well in post #43. if you are wealthy, you are not going to use public schools. you are going to send your kid to private schools, whether you have a voucher system or NOT. wouldn't want them rubbing elbows with the "little people" after all. if you get a voucher, you can pay your slip rent, but it won't change your kid's educational outcomes. however, it might bankrupt your local public school. if, on the other hand, you are poor, and you get a $500 voucher, it will not get your kid into a private school, any more than a $500 voucher will get you a 2 week vacation in Prague. vouchers will not cover even HALF the cost, which you can't afford to pay ANYTHING for- or you would not be sending you kids to public. does that make sense? Really. I don't know the answer to that. That is why I asked the question. Who thinks a $500 voucher is sufficient to cover the cost of schooling? Schools spend thousands of dollars on each student. There are free Harvard, MIT, Yale, etc classes free online. What is needed is structure. Public schools are failing. We are in a new age. Governments can embrace change or not. I think you are confusing quality education with hanging around with rich kids. eta: No, your answer does not make sense. it seems to be based on false assumptions and cynicism and a desire for more of the same.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 22, 2015 21:36:24 GMT -5
really? you don't know the answer to that? edit: i actually thought i explained it pretty well in post #43. if you are wealthy, you are not going to use public schools. you are going to send your kid to private schools, whether you have a voucher system or NOT. wouldn't want them rubbing elbows with the "little people" after all. if you get a voucher, you can pay your slip rent, but it won't change your kid's educational outcomes. however, it might bankrupt your local public school. if, on the other hand, you are poor, and you get a $500 voucher, it will not get your kid into a private school, any more than a $500 voucher will get you a 2 week vacation in Prague. vouchers will not cover even HALF the cost, which you can't afford to pay ANYTHING for- or you would not be sending you kids to public. does that make sense? Really. I don't know the answer to that. That is why I asked the question. Who thinks a $500 voucher is sufficient to cover the cost of schooling? Schools spend thousands of dollars on each student. There are free Harvard, MIT, Yale, etc classes free online. What is needed is structure. Public schools are failing. We are in a new age. Governments can embrace change or not. this is a meaningless statement, imo. we were in a new age in 1450, in 1950, and today. we will be in one tomorrow. that fact provides us no guidance. if you are suggesting that we should change our basic ideas about education, i will probably disagree with that. if you are suggesting that we change how we do that, i might agree, so long as it does not involve vouchers. eta: No, your answer does not make sense. it seems to be based on false assumptions and cynicism and a desire for more of the same. we seem to be talking about two different things. there is no free public equivalent to Harvard. but just to be clear- i was talking K-12. period. adults can devise their own solutions to this problem. and since you are new here, i will tell you that i am probably the least cynical poster on this board. i am the every rosy optimist. seriously. ask anyone here. i think people are good. i think the GOP will become enlightened and put up good candidates someday. i think we will balance the budget. i think that people are naturally altruistic. i think that there is something to be learned from everyone, including Sarah Palin. that sort of thing. so, yeah. we must be talking about two different things, or you could never have concluded what you did about me, and i could never have concluded what i did about you. edit: voucher systems pay an average of 18% of costs for K-12 private schooling.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 22, 2015 21:42:16 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 22, 2015 21:45:05 GMT -5
actually not a good idea
BTW coming from me means don't take this too seriously
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 22, 2015 21:51:44 GMT -5
with 35k posts, i am thinking that everyone here knows me well enough, bills. in fact, with that many posts, i think most people here know me WAY better than they would wish.
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Post by b2r on Feb 22, 2015 23:16:46 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 23, 2015 10:48:23 GMT -5
was the amount of the scholarship ever mentioned in the article?
surely it can't be $70k, which is what the article imples.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Feb 23, 2015 10:49:49 GMT -5
I pay tax dollars to my local school district. I vote for members of the board that runs those schools. There is a local school that is privately run. None of my tax dollars go to it. I have no say on who runs that school. Some people want my tax dollars to be taken from the school that I do have a say in how it is run and given to a school I have no say in how it is run. That is a problem. How do you feel about people in Texas having to pay taxes to the local school district that will be teaching false history? If they have children and can not afford private schooling then they pay taxes to something they find wrong, and have their children indoctrinated with the false knowlege. Some people are going to be on the losing side of an argument. So saying 'get involved in your school board' what some people might reply, is not always a winning possibility. I thought the problem was more along the lines of "Texas buys so many text books that the publishers will rewrite the text books for them. HOWEVER, that is the same text book being used in Wisconsin*. And Oregon*. And Florida*." So if Texas insists on certain things in textbooks for K-12, the rest of the nation doesn't really have much of a choice but to follow suit. * states pulled out of thin air, not based on facts. And welcome hickle.
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