billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 6, 2015 19:42:11 GMT -5
... I'd say you are doing your best to control what is said, while I am just trying to participate in a thoughtful discussion of the topic. BTW I really don't appreciate your histrionics on this topic. ... And I am not going to be diverted from the injustices perpetrated on thousands, if not millions of women for the problems of tens or hundreds of men. ...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2015 19:52:10 GMT -5
LOL the first quote is me being a bit sarcastic, with a point. The second one is out of context to the discussion of the moment.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Feb 6, 2015 20:04:21 GMT -5
I never said nor implied that. I personally choose to ignore things I find irrelevant to a point I'm trying to make. Feel free to handle it as you like but I believe in free speech regardless of how I feel about the content - especially on a message board. I was making a thoughtful point regarding this topic.
The only person here I ever try to control is me. What is said by each individual is on them.
I've shown none and was talking about women in general but thank you for making my point for me. Your message is now lost to me in your "thoughtful discussion of the topic". I appreciate the consideration you've shown as another woman. LMAO!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2015 20:20:30 GMT -5
Another thread gone mad. C'monnnn spring!
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 6, 2015 20:23:25 GMT -5
It's probably worthy to point out that Virgil's attempt at humor which, he tells us many people like, has 1 "like". Laterbloomer's post questioning said post has 8 "likes". Sroo's post, following Later's and defending Virgil's post has 1 "like". That should give us a hint. There are times when levity is fitting and will, indeed, serve to lighten a subject or deflect growing discord. There are other times (this seems like one of them) when levity will do the opposite. That's why it's important to consider well the content and mood of a thread before posting. Jokes just don't always come across as jokes. So much depends on what's being discussed. MOO
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Feb 6, 2015 20:31:41 GMT -5
Back to the topic, I think it's one thing to be a feminist and promote equality for BOTH genders - not just women - men are subjected to lack of equality too, in many cases.
What I don't find productive, helpful or bringing acceptance to equality (whether it be based on gender, race, or nationality), are people who present their message with anger, rage, or constant "chest-thumping" to make their point.
You can be a Feminist, while still remaining feminine. I don't think that those who keep pushing their agenda with hostility do their cause any service.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2015 20:36:14 GMT -5
Peace Of Mind if I misread the intent of your post, I actually do agree that seeing everything as an attack is not helpful. However I find it more harmful when people treat every complaint as if it is unreasonable.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Feb 6, 2015 20:42:50 GMT -5
Oh, ok. Telling women who already agree and know all of this already was really a movement in the right direction to spreading the word on the meaning of feminism. And yelling at men will encourage them to hear the message trying to be conveyed because those that agreed liked it even though they think all the men get the good jobs, etc. Gotcha. What a great way to educate people on feminism. I know it taught me a lot. ETA: This was in response to mmhmm and I didn't even see Later's post as we were typing at the same time. laterbloomer - Exactly!
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Post by Opti on Feb 6, 2015 20:45:29 GMT -5
Sigh. I didn't see any histrionics anywhere just differences of opinion. We all weigh things differently and this can be a divisive topic for many reasons including we all probably have different definitions of feminism.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Feb 6, 2015 20:48:41 GMT -5
Sigh. I didn't see any histrionics anywhere just differences of opinion. We all weigh things differently and this can be a divisive topic for many reasons including we all probably have different definitions of feminism. I didn't say it was here. I was talking in general and clearly wasn't wording it properly. How else could I have made this any clearer? "The histrionics ( real - not the silly joking kind we can portray here for a laugh)" I'm heading out. Good night!
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 6, 2015 20:55:03 GMT -5
I recall a rather interesting conversation about the subject of feminism that occurred among a mixed group of friends and acquaintances back in the late 70s. A male friend asked me at the time if I'd been among those who burned their bras in the 60s. I could truthfully answer I hadn't been. He wondered why since he felt I was pretty assertive and probably a feminist. I thought about it because I didn't have an immediate answer. Then, it occurred to me ...
I wasn't raised to feel inferior, or put upon, or "just a girl". I was raised in an atmosphere where equality was the norm. Female relatives were all strong, assertive women. Even as a child, my feelings and thoughts were taken seriously. It never occurred to me I had anything to prove. While I was aware of inequalities in the workplace and in some homes, it wasn't something I experienced personally. If it was aimed at me I fought back, just as I'd been raised to do. If I felt I was being treated unfairly and I couldn't change the situation I just walked out. It wasn't something I was willing to tolerate. I haven't changed one iota. That may be fortunate or unfortunate. I can be a royal pain in the backside but I've never felt like a lesser being and I'm not about to start now.
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Post by Opti on Feb 6, 2015 20:56:43 GMT -5
Sigh. I didn't see any histrionics anywhere just differences of opinion. We all weigh things differently and this can be a divisive topic for many reasons including we all probably have different definitions of feminism. I didn't say it was here. I was talking in general and clearly wasn't wording it properly. How else could I have made this any clearer? "The histrionics ( real - not the silly joking kind we can portray here for a laugh)" I'm heading out. Good night! Double sigh. Later accused you of histrionics which was what *I* was addressing. Not your post.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2015 21:08:57 GMT -5
I didn't say it was here. I was talking in general and clearly wasn't wording it properly. How else could I have made this any clearer? "The histrionics ( real - not the silly joking kind we can portray here for a laugh)" I'm heading out. Good night! Double sigh. Later accused you of histrionics which was what *I* was addressing. Not your post.
I was being sarcastic in an attempt to show how women get accused of histrionics when they are making a thought out point. Obviously my point did not come across and for that I am sorry.
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Post by busymom on Feb 6, 2015 21:14:54 GMT -5
This popped up on Facebook tonight, & I thought I'd share it. Unfortunately, it DOES appear that the media has "made" the definition of feminism, until of course you tell people what the word actually means (Webster):
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Feb 6, 2015 21:31:13 GMT -5
Double sigh. Later accused you of histrionics which was what *I* was addressing. Not your post.
I was being sarcastic in an attempt to show how women get accused of histrionics when they are making a thought out point. Obviously my point did not come across and for that I am sorry. I did miss that. I am a huge fan of emoticons like , and .
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Post by Opti on Feb 6, 2015 21:39:38 GMT -5
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 7, 2015 10:56:42 GMT -5
What's the male equivalent of a feminist?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 7, 2015 10:59:27 GMT -5
What's the male equivalent of a feminist? Feminist is not a gender specific term so the question as asked makes no sense.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2015 12:04:11 GMT -5
Conservative
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 7, 2015 12:06:56 GMT -5
Virgil, on this it fails miserably. Basically it assumes all sorts of shit is true about feminists which is like me trying to put levity in a race relations thread by posting all known biases and beliefs about blacks and welfare and then pretend its humour and trying to restore levity. BS.
If you'd prefer it to be more serious, should I point out that there's a rather large kernel of truth in every one of the listed items? Many feminist doctrines are hypocritical and hopelessly self-conflicted. Many are misandry masquerading as social justice. Many are obsessive about sex to the point of absurdity (which you well know, since you were a participant in the penetrative sex = rape thread). Many feminists clearly don't care about practical/justifiable reasons for wage disparity between the sexes. Past discussions have proven that just as many exaggerate the magnitude of the disparity, which we've quantified. Many offer conflicting edicts on how men ought to lend a hand, get out of the way, show support, not be so patronizing, build women up, show women no special treatment, etc., etc., and more than enough besides to make one's head spin. Many misconstrue any attack on their arguments to be an attack on women in general. My serious assessment is that contemporary feminism is a mess of doctrines whose only fruit has been to foster hostility and bitterness between the sexes, pitting them as rivals rather than coworkers with unique roles and abilities. I meant what I said earlier that none of the women I know who meet the YMAM-ian definition of feminism (which is nicely summarized in a post by POM) identify as feminists. This is precisely because the term has been coopted to refer to a much larger group, which unfortunately includes countless women whose passion is collecting photo evidence to document why men are unnecessary. Google and behold them for yourself. I intended the joke to be funny, but if I missed the mark and hit a nerve, so be it. This is me being serious. I'm sure everyone agrees it's much better than the joke. If you want to see people even more serious about it, you can read psychologists' diatribes about why feminism is illogical, unnecessary, and evil. As far as critics of feminism go, I'm a wafting butterfly.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 7, 2015 12:07:40 GMT -5
Feminist is not a gender specific term so the question as asked makes no sense. I read the question as what is term to describe someone who champions the cause of men. I could be misinterpreting though. Thank you.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 7, 2015 13:07:47 GMT -5
Np...unfortunately to answer your question the only term I can think of is misogynist That's the closest thing I can think of too.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 7, 2015 15:16:11 GMT -5
Feminist is not a gender specific term so the question as asked makes no sense. I read the question as what is term to describe someone who champions the cause of men. I could be misinterpreting though. Sweet. We might be getting to the thread topic. Feminists champion the cause of women. What is "the cause" of women?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 7, 2015 15:19:05 GMT -5
Np...unfortunately to answer your question the only term I can think of is misogynist That would be a misandrist.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 7, 2015 15:21:34 GMT -5
I read the question as what is term to describe someone who champions the cause of men. I could be misinterpreting though. Thank you. Men's Rights Advocate (MRA)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2015 16:16:56 GMT -5
Yes Virgil Showlion I do like that answer better as you are owning the fact that to you "all those points contained a large kernel of truth". They contained a kernel truth in the same sense that there are a lot of people that call themselves Christians that behave in a way that you don't think is supported in your understanding of Christianity. You don't stop being a christian because of them the same as I won't stop calling myself a feminist because of those women. Feminist doctrines are not hypocritical. Actually where are the doctrines written up? I have never espoused that sex equals rape. What justifies paying a man more for the same job? You acknowledge there is a disparity, what is the difference if it is 20% or 30%? Let's fix the disparity. It's not a big deal to be working out the finer points of how men ought to lend a hand etc, that is going to vary in individual relationships. And finally many of the attacks are on women in general. In the same way that your "joke" contained "a kernel of truth about how you really feel about feminists" As for this, I couldn't disagree with you more. The term has not been coopted by those women. People like yourself try to use those women to discredit anyone that identifies as feminist.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2015 16:21:17 GMT -5
And I wasn't joking that people that support men's rights are called Conservatives. Pick a men's rights issue and there is a good chance it is Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly have done a show about it.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 7, 2015 16:36:03 GMT -5
...Feminist doctrines are not hypocritical. Actually where are the doctrines written up? ... "I am not sure what 'doctrines' you are referring to here. Would you please give me a link so that I can assess them. I can then knowledgeably discuss how they are either not hypocritical or not feminist doctrines. Or I see some of the hypocrisy you see." Just a thought.
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Post by Opti on Feb 7, 2015 16:54:07 GMT -5
Virgil, on this it fails miserably. Basically it assumes all sorts of shit is true about feminists which is like me trying to put levity in a race relations thread by posting all known biases and beliefs about blacks and welfare and then pretend its humour and trying to restore levity. BS.
If you'd prefer it to be more serious, should I point out that there's a rather large kernel of truth in every one of the listed items? Many feminist doctrines are hypocritical and hopelessly self-conflicted. Many are misandry masquerading as social justice. Many are obsessive about sex to the point of absurdity (which you well know, since you were a participant in the penetrative sex = rape thread). Many feminists clearly don't care about practical/justifiable reasons for wage disparity between the sexes. Past discussions have proven that just as many exaggerate the magnitude of the disparity, which we've quantified. Many offer conflicting edicts on how men ought to lend a hand, get out of the way, show support, not be so patronizing, build women up, show women no special treatment, etc., etc., and more than enough besides to make one's head spin. Many misconstrue any attack on their arguments to be an attack on women in general. My serious assessment is that contemporary feminism is a mess of doctrines whose only fruit has been to foster hostility and bitterness between the sexes, pitting them as rivals rather than coworkers with unique roles and abilities. I meant what I said earlier that none of the women I know who meet the YMAM-ian definition of feminism (which is nicely summarized in a post by POM) identify as feminists. This is precisely because the term has been coopted to refer to a much larger group, which unfortunately includes countless women whose passion is collecting photo evidence to document why men are unnecessary. Google and behold them for yourself. I intended the joke to be funny, but if I missed the mark and hit a nerve, so be it. This is me being serious. I'm sure everyone agrees it's much better than the joke. If you want to see people even more serious about it, you can read psychologists' diatribes about why feminism is illogical, unnecessary, and evil. As far as critics of feminism go, I'm a wafting butterfly. I think the problem is you and others read about certain feminists on the internet and decide they are a big group without any information to back that up such as 50% of people who identify as feminist believe penetrative sex is rape. My guess is the percentage is much much smaller.
I think it is like one of our posters who likes to post about unfortunate gun incidents and deaths. One can start taking those posts as more important and more representative of the larger reality than it really is. I don't actually know what contemporary feminism defines itself as, but it is not a unified field of study nor has apparently the dictionary definition been changed to 'people who hate men, etc.'
There is all sorts of things out there in the world. Just because they exist does not imply everyone believes them or most do.
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Post by Opti on Feb 7, 2015 16:57:38 GMT -5
And I wasn't joking that people that support men's rights are called Conservatives. Pick a men's rights issue and there is a good chance it is Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly have done a show about it. I don't know about conservatives in general or specific, but I used to read on men's rights and I really doubt Limbaugh would support much of it. Do you really believe either support the idea of Dads with full custody, SAHDs, men wearing skirts, and other stuff?
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