happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 20,901
|
Post by happyhoix on Dec 18, 2014 16:34:14 GMT -5
So if the father wants to abort and the woman says no, he doesn't have to pay child support? This has always been an interesting question for me. There have been a couple court cases where the man told the woman he didn't want to have kids, asked her if she was on BC, and the woman either stated she was on BC or couldn't have children. Then the woman gets pregnant anyway, decides to keep the baby and sues dad for child support. On the one hand, I think a man shouldn't be forced to be a dad, not if he clearly told the woman he didn't want to be, and if she promised she was on BC or infertile. On the other hand, the one certain way not to be a dad is to refrain from sex, or bag it. I told DS when he went off to college to never rely on what his GF said - always bag it, even if she claimed to be on BC. Two forms of BC at the same time are better than one. Not a good solution either way, I don't think. Poor baby.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 5, 2024 7:21:46 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 18:34:57 GMT -5
It's a step in the right direction. I'd like to see a requirement to get the consent of the child. If two people agree to murder me, it's still murder. Since murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a person (we can argue whether a fetus is a "person" later), anti-choice activists lose all credibility with me when they don't understand that abortion is a PERFECTLY LEGAL procedure which makes it NOT "murder". You (general) may not like the procedure, you may disagree with the procedure, it may even go against your religion... but it's NOT "murder". *Yes... unnecessary inflammatory statements that are 100% wrong are a pet peeve of mine.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 5, 2024 7:21:46 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 18:40:29 GMT -5
So if the father wants to abort and the woman says no, he doesn't have to pay child support? This has always been an interesting question for me. There have been a couple court cases where the man told the woman he didn't want to have kids, asked her if she was on BC, and the woman either stated she was on BC or couldn't have children. Then the woman gets pregnant anyway, decides to keep the baby and sues dad for child support. On the one hand, I think a man shouldn't be forced to be a dad, not if he clearly told the woman he didn't want to be, and if she promised she was on BC or infertile. On the other hand, the one certain way not to be a dad is to refrain from sex, or bag it. I told DS when he went off to college to never rely on what his GF said - always bag it, even if she claimed to be on BC. Two forms of BC at the same time are better than one. Not a good solution either way, I don't think. Poor baby. Even "bagging it" is no guarantee.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 18, 2014 18:42:16 GMT -5
It's a step in the right direction. I'd like to see a requirement to get the consent of the child. If two people agree to murder me, it's still murder. Since murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a person (we can argue whether a fetus is a "person" later), anti-choice activists lose all credibility with me when they don't understand that abortion is a PERFECTLY LEGAL procedure which makes it NOT "murder". You (general) may not like the procedure, you may disagree with the procedure, it may even go against your religion... but it's NOT "murder". *Yes... unnecessary inflammatory statements that are 100% wrong are a pet peeve of mine. You've fallen into the trap that making something legal makes it OK, or alternatively that making something illegal makes it wrong. Murder is murder, no matter if someone in a black robe approves of it, or the legislature makes it legal or not. A pregnancy, if not interfered with, results in a human being. An abortion eliminates a person, and that is murder.
|
|
NoNamePerson
Distinguished Associate
Is There Anybody OUT There?
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 17:03:17 GMT -5
Posts: 25,722
Location: WITNESS PROTECTION
|
Post by NoNamePerson on Dec 18, 2014 18:45:37 GMT -5
So if the father wants to abort and the woman says no, he doesn't have to pay child support? This has always been an interesting question for me. There have been a couple court cases where the man told the woman he didn't want to have kids, asked her if she was on BC, and the woman either stated she was on BC or couldn't have children. Then the woman gets pregnant anyway, decides to keep the baby and sues dad for child support. On the one hand, I think a man shouldn't be forced to be a dad, not if he clearly told the woman he didn't want to be, and if she promised she was on BC or infertile. On the other hand, the one certain way not to be a dad is to refrain from sex, or bag it. I told DS when he went off to college to never rely on what his GF said - always bag it, even if she claimed to be on BC. Two forms of BC at the same time are better than one. Not a good solution either way, I don't think. Poor baby. I preached this to my son too. I told him if he couldn't afford condoms I would buy them for him and if he didn't use them I would sneak into his room one night and surgically sew one on him
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 5, 2024 7:21:46 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 18:51:35 GMT -5
Since murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a person (we can argue whether a fetus is a "person" later), anti-choice activists lose all credibility with me when they don't understand that abortion is a PERFECTLY LEGAL procedure which makes it NOT "murder". You (general) may not like the procedure, you may disagree with the procedure, it may even go against your religion... but it's NOT "murder". *Yes... unnecessary inflammatory statements that are 100% wrong are a pet peeve of mine. You've fallen into the trap that making something legal makes it OK, or alternatively that making something illegal makes it wrong. Murder is murder, no matter if someone in a black robe approves of it, or the legislature makes it legal or not. A pregnancy, if not interfered with, results in a human being. An abortion eliminates a person, and that is murder. I haven't fallen into any trap. I'm not the one intentionally mis-labeling things. I understand the differences between illegal and immoral and unethical much better than you do apparently. Abortion is not murder. As long as it's been legal, it never has been, and as long as it still is legal it never will be. You can try to sensationalize it all you like, but your opinion is pointless in the discussion if you can't even express it properly.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 5, 2024 7:21:46 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 18:53:36 GMT -5
That being said... if we cannot keep this discussion about the OP, and ONLY the OP, I will have no choice but to lock this thread... because abortion arguments (is it right or wrong) are not allowed. (Please note, that my rebuttal did not address whether it was right or wrong... just that it's not ILLEGAL)
- RichardInTN, CE Mod
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 18, 2014 18:55:39 GMT -5
That being said... if we cannot keep this discussion about the OP, and ONLY the OP, I will have no choice but to lock this thread... b ecause abortion arguments (is it right or wrong) are not allowed. (Please note, that my rebuttal did not address whether it was right or wrong... just that it's not ILLEGAL) - RichardInTN, CE Mod Is this somewhere in the CoC?
|
|
chiver78
Administrator
Current Events Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:04:45 GMT -5
Posts: 38,565
|
Post by chiver78 on Dec 18, 2014 19:07:37 GMT -5
So if the father wants to abort and the woman says no, he doesn't have to pay child support? This has always been an interesting question for me. There have been a couple court cases where the man told the woman he didn't want to have kids, asked her if she was on BC, and the woman either stated she was on BC or couldn't have children. Then the woman gets pregnant anyway, decides to keep the baby and sues dad for child support. On the one hand, I think a man shouldn't be forced to be a dad, not if he clearly told the woman he didn't want to be, and if she promised she was on BC or infertile. On the other hand, the one certain way not to be a dad is to refrain from sex, or bag it. I told DS when he went off to college to never rely on what his GF said - always bag it, even if she claimed to be on BC. Two forms of BC at the same time are better than one. Not a good solution either way, I don't think. Poor baby. if he's so adamant, he could always wrap it up just for added caution. just saying...
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 18, 2014 20:24:06 GMT -5
Thread locked pending review.
- Virgil (Mod)
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 19, 2014 10:39:45 GMT -5
The consensus is to keep the thread open so long as the morality of abortion or laws relating to abortion don't feature in the discussion. Additional posts in the style of e.g. Reply #7, Reply #19, Reply #21, Reply #33 will be deleted.
Unlocking thread.
- Virgil (Mod)
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 5, 2024 7:21:46 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 10:43:11 GMT -5
This has always been an interesting question for me. There have been a couple court cases where the man told the woman he didn't want to have kids, asked her if she was on BC, and the woman either stated she was on BC or couldn't have children. Then the woman gets pregnant anyway, decides to keep the baby and sues dad for child support. On the one hand, I think a man shouldn't be forced to be a dad, not if he clearly told the woman he didn't want to be, and if she promised she was on BC or infertile. On the other hand, the one certain way not to be a dad is to refrain from sex, or bag it. I told DS when he went off to college to never rely on what his GF said - always bag it, even if she claimed to be on BC. Two forms of BC at the same time are better than one. Not a good solution either way, I don't think. Poor baby. if he's so adamant, he could always wrap it up just for added caution. just saying... Or he could just not have sex. Women get told all the time "don't want to get pregnant, don't have sex".
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Dec 19, 2014 10:45:06 GMT -5
if he's so adamant, he could always wrap it up just for added caution. just saying... Or he could just not have sex. Women get told all the time "don't want to get pregnant, don't have sex". That works too.
|
|
chiver78
Administrator
Current Events Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:04:45 GMT -5
Posts: 38,565
|
Post by chiver78 on Dec 19, 2014 10:52:20 GMT -5
if he's so adamant, he could always wrap it up just for added caution. just saying... Or he could just not have sex. Women get told all the time "don't want to get pregnant, don't have sex". well, there's that, too. but you can't surely expect a man not to have sex if the opportunity presents itself...could you?
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
|
Post by zibazinski on Dec 19, 2014 10:55:20 GMT -5
Um, yes I can. We aren't dogs in heat.
|
|
ArchietheDragon
Junior Associate
Joined: Jul 7, 2014 14:29:23 GMT -5
Posts: 6,353
|
Post by ArchietheDragon on Dec 19, 2014 10:56:26 GMT -5
Or he could just not have sex. Women get told all the time "don't want to get pregnant, don't have sex". well, there's that, too. but you can't surely expect a man not to have sex if the opportunity presents itself...could you? I did once in college. A buddy of mine wanted me to have a three way with him and some chick. I couldn't do it.
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Dec 19, 2014 10:57:58 GMT -5
Or he could just not have sex. Women get told all the time "don't want to get pregnant, don't have sex". well, there's that, too. but you can't surely expect a man not to have sex if the opportunity presents itself...could you? I was thinking something along those lines too Chive. But wasn't sure how to phrase it and definitely don't have the time today for a lengthy discussion.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 19, 2014 10:59:11 GMT -5
Or he could just not have sex. Women get told all the time "don't want to get pregnant, don't have sex". That works too. It's nice to see people at least acknowledging none of these problems would exist if people avoided extramarital sex.
|
|
ArchietheDragon
Junior Associate
Joined: Jul 7, 2014 14:29:23 GMT -5
Posts: 6,353
|
Post by ArchietheDragon on Dec 19, 2014 10:59:52 GMT -5
It's nice to see people at least acknowledging none of these problems would exist if people avoided extramarital sex. If everyone were perfect we would live in a utopia.
|
|
chiver78
Administrator
Current Events Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:04:45 GMT -5
Posts: 38,565
|
Post by chiver78 on Dec 19, 2014 11:00:34 GMT -5
well, there's that, too. but you can't surely expect a man not to have sex if the opportunity presents itself...could you? I was thinking something along those lines too Chive. But wasn't sure how to phrase it and definitely don't have the time today for a lengthy discussion. lol.... I figured the would cover me.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 19, 2014 11:05:40 GMT -5
It's nice to see people at least acknowledging none of these problems would exist if people avoided extramarital sex. If everyone were perfect we would live in a utopia. Since the very definition of utopia is a perfect society, I'd have to agree. For my part, I'd prefer to live in a society that resembles rather than dissembles a utopia as much as possible.
|
|
ArchietheDragon
Junior Associate
Joined: Jul 7, 2014 14:29:23 GMT -5
Posts: 6,353
|
Post by ArchietheDragon on Dec 19, 2014 11:07:15 GMT -5
If everyone were perfect we would live in a utopia. Since the very definition of utopia is a perfect society, I'd have to agree. For my part, I'd prefer to live in a society that resembles rather than dissembles a utopia as much as possible. I agree. people are the worst, though.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 5, 2024 7:21:46 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 11:07:15 GMT -5
It's nice to see people at least acknowledging none of these problems would exist if people avoided extramarital sex. What does marriage have to do with it? 15% of women seeking abortions are married.
|
|
ArchietheDragon
Junior Associate
Joined: Jul 7, 2014 14:29:23 GMT -5
Posts: 6,353
|
Post by ArchietheDragon on Dec 19, 2014 11:08:51 GMT -5
It's nice to see people at least acknowledging none of these problems would exist if people avoided extramarital sex. What does marriage have to do with it? 15% of women seeking abortions are married. That is true, too. My wife had her abortion when she was married to me. I guess I consented in way. I am not sure it would have mattered if I didn't, though.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 19, 2014 11:47:20 GMT -5
It's nice to see people at least acknowledging none of these problems would exist if people avoided extramarital sex. What does marriage have to do with it? 15% of women seeking abortions are married. And what percentage of those have a wife married to a husband staunchly opposed to abortion? Perhaps I'll add "selection of a life mate who shares one's fundamental values" to the list of rules for success in life.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Dec 19, 2014 11:56:28 GMT -5
What does marriage have to do with it? 15% of women seeking abortions are married. And what percentage of those have a wife married to a husband staunchly opposed to abortion? Perhaps I'll add "selection of a life mate who shares one's fundamental values" to the list of rules for success in life. I'm pretty sure that's part of every thinking person's rules for success in life, Virgil. Thing is, a lot of people don't share your views.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,142
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Dec 19, 2014 12:01:23 GMT -5
The consensus is to keep the thread open so long as the morality of abortion or laws relating to abortion don't feature in the discussion. Additional posts in the style of e.g. Reply #7, Reply #19, Reply #21, Reply #33 will be deleted. Unlocking thread. - Virgil (Mod)interesting decision.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 19, 2014 12:20:10 GMT -5
The consensus is to keep the thread open so long as the morality of abortion or laws relating to abortion don't feature in the discussion. Additional posts in the style of e.g. Reply #7, Reply #19, Reply #21, Reply #33 will be deleted. Unlocking thread. - Virgil (Mod)interesting decision. Please direct your attention away from the 800 lb gorilla in the center of the room, and may we call your attention to the comely arrangement of ferns situated in the southeast corner...
|
|
chiver78
Administrator
Current Events Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:04:45 GMT -5
Posts: 38,565
|
Post by chiver78 on Dec 19, 2014 12:25:08 GMT -5
comments like that aren't very helpful either, Virgil.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,142
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Dec 19, 2014 12:37:56 GMT -5
Please direct your attention away from the 800 lb gorilla in the center of the room, and may we call your attention to the comely arrangement of ferns situated in the southeast corner... heheh. you said "comely".
|
|