New abortion tactic- require consent from the father

[EVT1]

www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/12/republican-wants-women-get-permission-father-having-abortion?google_editors_picks=true

Wow- I guess it isn't a woman's body after all once a man deposits a property interest in it.

Wonder which state will be the first to pass a train wreck like this?

[Deleted]

Even though I can KIND-OF see this as more reasonable than some other requirements that are actually already law in some places... I'm still against it.

Abortion should be the pregnant woman's choice. Period. End-of-story.

[marvholly]

Dec 18, 2014 5:11:20 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Even though I can KIND-OF see this as more reasonable than some other requirements that are actually already law in some places... I'm still against it.

Abortion should be the pregnant woman's choice. Period. End-of-story.

SOOO agree. However, if the father does not/will not the woman should make him a permanent 'present' of the child.  Let HIM deal w/daycare, night feedings, diapers, sick child.................... 

[busymom]

Sooo, they DON'T enforce payment of child support, but they're trying to enforce this?!? Lotsa luck!

[Ombud]

So the potential father-2-be has no interest in the outcome? Why don't they just say if he wants the kid, he has to take sole custody if she doesn't want it?

[ArchietheDragon]

I don't think this will go through anywhere. 

[973beachbum]

Dec 18, 2014 7:32:41 GMT -5 busymom said:

Sooo, they DON'T enforce payment of child support, but they're trying to enforce this?!? Lotsa luck!

This is actually a lot easier to enforce though.  The facilities wouldn't be allowed to preform the proceedure if this law passes.  They could lose their lisense if they did.  It is just another stick to use to close planned parenthood IMO. 

[Tennesseer]

Women are just property.  No different than a pet owner signing a permission form to have their pet neutered.  

[Wisconsin Beth]

Dec 18, 2014 9:24:13 GMT -5 973beachbum said:

Dec 18, 2014 7:32:41 GMT -5 busymom said:

Sooo, they DON'T enforce payment of child support, but they're trying to enforce this?!? Lotsa luck!

This is actually a lot easier to enforce though.  The facilities wouldn't be allowed to preform the proceedure if this law passes.  They could lose their lisense if they did.  It is just another stick to use to close planned parenthood IMO. 

Hmmm, what would happen if you say you don't know who the father is?  It would definitely skew any statistics collected on how well one knows the father.  Which could lead to the false assumption that women are having unprotected sex with men they know extremely casually...

[NoNamePerson]

Dec 18, 2014 9:54:59 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Dec 18, 2014 9:24:13 GMT -5 973beachbum said:

This is actually a lot easier to enforce though.  The facilities wouldn't be allowed to preform the proceedure if this law passes.  They could lose their lisense if they did.  It is just another stick to use to close planned parenthood IMO. 

Hmmm, what would happen if you say you don't know who the father is?  It would definitely skew any statistics collected on how well one knows the father.  Which could lead to the false assumption that women are having unprotected sex with men they know extremely casually...

Better a false assumption than denying women who want an abortion the right to have that abortion. Oh and that men are having unprotected sex with women they know extremely casually   

[Wisconsin Beth]

Good point NNP.  But I think the politicians involved would be more inclined to leap on the same assumption I did. <Bad Beth  >

[workpublic]

So if the father wants to abort and the woman says no, he doesn't have to pay child support?

[Wisconsin Beth]

Dec 18, 2014 11:09:39 GMT -5 workpublic said:

So if the father wants to abort and the woman says no, he doesn't have to pay child support?

Part of me wants to say "I'm ok with that" 
Part of me wants to say "Isn't that what happens in a lot of cases anyway?"
And part of me is concerned about that baby's future and poverty if there is no child support. 

I'm in an odd mood today and probably should get off the boards before I get myself into trouble (or an argument)

[EVT1]

Good points- what happens when nobody wants to sign off or admit paternity, or someone other than the father does? Is there going to be a DNA test? Paid for by whom?  Of course none of that matters since paternal rights have nothing to do with this....It won't surprise me at all if some state does pass a form of this considering who is in charge these days- looking at you TN

[Tennesseer]

Dec 18, 2014 11:36:49 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Good points- what happens when nobody wants to sign off or admit paternity, or someone other than the father does? Is there going to be a DNA test? Paid for by whom?  Of course none of that matters since paternal rights have nothing to do with this....It won't surprise me at all if some state does pass a form of this considering who is in charge these days- looking at you TN

TN who...?

[Wisconsin Beth]

I'm assuming he means the entire state of Tennessee.

Edited to fix post spacing.

[ArchietheDragon]

Dec 18, 2014 11:45:55 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Dec 18, 2014 11:36:49 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Good points- what happens when nobody wants to sign off or admit paternity, or someone other than the father does? Is there going to be a DNA test? Paid for by whom?  Of course none of that matters since paternal rights have nothing to do with this....It won't surprise me at all if some state does pass a form of this considering who is in charge these days- looking at you TN

TN who...?

probably Richard in

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 18, 2014 11:50:57 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Dec 18, 2014 11:45:55 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

TN who...?

probably Richard in

Maybe they can talk to Maury about this.  I think he has a bulk rate on paternity tests.

This will be interesting if the potential father can be any one of a dozen guys.  

[Tennesseer]

Dec 18, 2014 12:08:15 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Dec 18, 2014 11:50:57 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

probably Richard in

Maybe they can talk to Maury about this.  I think he has a bulk rate on paternity tests.

This will be interesting if the potential father can be any one of a dozen guys.  

Or if she was an 'escort' for the entire U.S. Naval Forces Fifth Fleet.

[EVT1]

Dec 18, 2014 11:49:51 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

I'm assuming he means the entire state of Tennessee.

Edited to fix post spacing.

Yep- well at least the legislature. The entire state isn't effed in the head.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Dec 18, 2014 12:08:15 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Dec 18, 2014 11:50:57 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

probably Richard in

Maybe they can talk to Maury about this.  I think he has a bulk rate on paternity tests.

This will be interesting if the potential father can be any one of a dozen guys.  

How exactly does one test the paternity while in the uterus anyway?  'cause someone is trying to get an abortion, not child support.  And how long does it take to get the results?  Maybe the real goal is to delay abortion past the 20 week stage. 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Dec 18, 2014 1:14:12 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/12/republican-wants-women-get-permission-father-having-abortion?google_editors_picks=true

Wow- I guess it isn't a woman's body after all once a man deposits a property interest in it.

Wonder which state will be the first to pass a train wreck like this?

It's a step in  the right direction. I'd like to see a requirement to get the consent of the child.    If two people agree to murder me, it's still murder.

[ArchietheDragon]

Dec 18, 2014 12:57:46 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Dec 18, 2014 12:08:15 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Maybe they can talk to Maury about this.  I think he has a bulk rate on paternity tests.

This will be interesting if the potential father can be any one of a dozen guys.  

How exactly does one test the paternity while in the uterus anyway?  'cause someone is trying to get an abortion, not child support.  And how long does it take to get the results?  Maybe the real goal is to delay abortion past the 20 week stage. 

Paternity could be tested using the mother's blood.   Test can be done 11/12 weeks into pregnancy and comes back in 10 days or so. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 18, 2014 12:57:46 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Dec 18, 2014 12:08:15 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Maybe they can talk to Maury about this.  I think he has a bulk rate on paternity tests.

This will be interesting if the potential father can be any one of a dozen guys.  

How exactly does one test the paternity while in the uterus anyway?  'cause someone is trying to get an abortion, not child support.  And how long does it take to get the results?  Maybe the real goal is to delay abortion past the 20 week stage. 

Supposedly, there is a way of doing this via the mother's blood, done as early as 8 weeks.


www.nytimes.com/2012/06/20/health/paternity-blood-tests-that-work-early-in-a-pregnancy.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[Opti]

From the OP URL:

"I'm just saying if there was a legitimate rape, you're going to make a police report, just as if you were robbed," Brattin says. "That's just common sense." Under his bill, he adds, "you have to take steps to show that you were raped…And I'd think you'd be able to prove that." The bill contains no provision establishing standards for claiming the rape or incest exceptions. It also doesn't state any specific penalties for violating the law nor say whether a penalty would be imposed on the woman seeking the abortion or the abortion provider.

This is scary. Its probably hard enough to come out and tell people about incest,

but this law could add another level of problem. The only I can easily conclude is

that he wasn't raped as a child.

[973beachbum]

Dec 18, 2014 13:24:58 GMT -5 Opti said:

From the OP URL:

"I'm just saying if there was a legitimate rape, you're going to make a police report, just as if you were robbed," Brattin says. "That's just common sense." Under his bill, he adds, "you have to take steps to show that you were raped…And I'd think you'd be able to prove that." The bill contains no provision establishing standards for claiming the rape or incest exceptions. It also doesn't state any specific penalties for violating the law nor say whether a penalty would be imposed on the woman seeking the abortion or the abortion provider.

This is scary. Its probably hard enough to come out and tell people about incest,

but this law could add another level of problem. The only I can easily conclude is

that he wasn't raped as a child.

He also wasn't blessed with common sense.

[Wisconsin Beth]

This is from the article Mich linked to in post #23

Ravgen, a small company in Columbia, Md., has been offering its test on a limited basis and charges $950 to $1,650, depending on the circumstances, said Dr. Ravinder Dhallan, the chief executive.

Another test was developed by a company in Silicon Valley called Natera, and is marketed by DNA Diagnostics Center, a leading provider of conventional paternity tests. Thousands of the prenatal tests have been ordered since going on sale last August, executives say. The price is $1,775, compared with around $500 for a conventional postbirth paternity test.

Neither test has received a certification for accuracy that is necessary for use in child custody cases, though Natera has applied. The certifying organization, the AABB, is seriously considering whether it should certify prenatal tests, said Eduardo Nunes, senior director for policy, standards and global development at the organization, formerly known as the American Association of Blood Banks.

Still, some experts urge caution. Natera has not yet published any data about its test in peer-reviewed journals. Ravgen’s paper in The New England Journal of Medicine discussed just 30 samples. (The test correctly distinguished the father from a randomly chosen man in all 30 cases.)

The tests could generate controversy if they led to more abortions. However, Matthew Rabinowitz, chief executive of Natera, said that if a woman were intent on terminating a pregnancy based on paternity, she could still get an invasive test. And Dr. Dhallan of Ravgen said the test could persuade women who learned they were pregnant after a rape to keep the baby if they learned the rapist was not the father.

 I did not see an estimated time for results in the link.   Or if any lab can run the tests or if samples need to be returned to the vendor for processing.

[zibazinski]

Oh Lordy. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 18, 2014 13:37:40 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

This is from the article Mich linked to in post #23

Ravgen, a small company in Columbia, Md., has been offering its test on a limited basis and charges $950 to $1,650, depending on the circumstances, said Dr. Ravinder Dhallan, the chief executive.

Another test was developed by a company in Silicon Valley called Natera, and is marketed by DNA Diagnostics Center, a leading provider of conventional paternity tests. Thousands of the prenatal tests have been ordered since going on sale last August, executives say. The price is $1,775, compared with around $500 for a conventional postbirth paternity test.

Neither test has received a certification for accuracy that is necessary for use in child custody cases, though Natera has applied. The certifying organization, the AABB, is seriously considering whether it should certify prenatal tests, said Eduardo Nunes, senior director for policy, standards and global development at the organization, formerly known as the American Association of Blood Banks.

Still, some experts urge caution. Natera has not yet published any data about its test in peer-reviewed journals. Ravgen’s paper in The New England Journal of Medicine discussed just 30 samples. (The test correctly distinguished the father from a randomly chosen man in all 30 cases.)

The tests could generate controversy if they led to more abortions. However, Matthew Rabinowitz, chief executive of Natera, said that if a woman were intent on terminating a pregnancy based on paternity, she could still get an invasive test. And Dr. Dhallan of Ravgen said the test could persuade women who learned they were pregnant after a rape to keep the baby if they learned the rapist was not the father.

 I did not see an estimated time for results in the link.   Or if any lab can run the tests or if samples need to be returned to the vendor for processing.

The article is over 2 years old too.  Chances are, it's in use.  There are other companies that do do early testing.  It's more expensive, but still available/

[ArchietheDragon]

Dec 18, 2014 13:37:40 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

This is from the article Mich linked to in post #23

Ravgen, a small company in Columbia, Md., has been offering its test on a limited basis and charges $950 to $1,650, depending on the circumstances, said Dr. Ravinder Dhallan, the chief executive.

Another test was developed by a company in Silicon Valley called Natera, and is marketed by DNA Diagnostics Center, a leading provider of conventional paternity tests. Thousands of the prenatal tests have been ordered since going on sale last August, executives say. The price is $1,775, compared with around $500 for a conventional postbirth paternity test.

Neither test has received a certification for accuracy that is necessary for use in child custody cases, though Natera has applied. The certifying organization, the AABB, is seriously considering whether it should certify prenatal tests, said Eduardo Nunes, senior director for policy, standards and global development at the organization, formerly known as the American Association of Blood Banks.

Still, some experts urge caution. Natera has not yet published any data about its test in peer-reviewed journals. Ravgen’s paper in The New England Journal of Medicine discussed just 30 samples. (The test correctly distinguished the father from a randomly chosen man in all 30 cases.)

The tests could generate controversy if they led to more abortions. However, Matthew Rabinowitz, chief executive of Natera, said that if a woman were intent on terminating a pregnancy based on paternity, she could still get an invasive test. And Dr. Dhallan of Ravgen said the test could persuade women who learned they were pregnant after a rape to keep the baby if they learned the rapist was not the father.

 I did not see an estimated time for results in the link.   Or if any lab can run the tests or if samples need to be returned to the vendor for processing.

My wife had this test done for her most recent two pregnancies, not specifically for paternity, but that is just one of the things you can do with the test.