zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 17, 2014 9:50:46 GMT -5
I know. It'll happen again, I'm sure.
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 17, 2014 10:02:39 GMT -5
This morning MSNBC showed a poll on Hillary and Jeb Hillary like 51% dislike 48%
Jeb , I forget, but close to these numbers.... Like 32% Dislike 67%
Looks like Jeb has some work to do.
On the other side of the coin, CNBC talked about the NBC poll showed Americans favored continuing the interrogation procedures with terrorist detainees.
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 17, 2014 10:48:34 GMT -5
This morning MSNBC showed a poll on Hillary and Jeb Hillary like 51% dislike 48%
Jeb , I forget, but close to these numbers.... Like 32% Dislike 67%
Looks like Jeb has some work to do.
On the other side of the coin, CNBC talked about the NBC poll showed Americans favored continuing the interrogation procedures with terrorist detainees. Then we probably should not be horrified and outraged when groups like ISIS kill Americans.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 17, 2014 11:08:54 GMT -5
that's right. same way that Bush won in 2004. very disappointing, but it is how things go. Really? Are you playing the "Why?" game that two year old's play? Yes... He had more registered voters vote for him. I don't think anyone disputes that... but how did he GET those voters to vote for him? calm down. i actually didn't understand what you were asking. he got those voters by convincing them he was a better candidate.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Dec 17, 2014 11:09:04 GMT -5
If republicans can't come up with someone better than Jeb, then I'm voting for her. I hope they can come up with someone good this year.You WANT to vote Republican? I want to vote for someone who is socially liberal & fiscally conservative. I do not think I will find a fiscally conservative democrat. I think the closest I am going to get is a fiscally conservative republican who takes a totally hands off approach to social policy.
This is one of the reasons I do like Rand Paul, although he is socially conservative it seems he isn't interested in creating legislature towards that goal, at least that is my impression so far. Which is why republicans need to look beyond the nomination & pick someone that people like me will vote for in the election. If they pick someone who is strongly socially conservative & appears interested in changing laws to that effect, they will lose my vote every time.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 17, 2014 11:11:00 GMT -5
This morning MSNBC showed a poll on Hillary and Jeb Hillary like 51% dislike 48%
Jeb , I forget, but close to these numbers.... Like 32% Dislike 67%
Looks like Jeb has some work to do.
On the other side of the coin, CNBC talked about the NBC poll showed Americans favored continuing the interrogation procedures with terrorist detainees. people don't understand two things about that. ONE: that torture produced little or no actionable intelligence and TWO: that we actually killed over 100 people, many of whom were totally innocent. anyone who doesn't understand those two things will not be a good judge of whether we should torture or not. but furthermore, who cares whether people condone an immoral action? if the US public said it was OK to have sex with 12 year olds, would it be OK? no. it would not.
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Post by Angel! on Dec 17, 2014 11:13:31 GMT -5
This morning MSNBC showed a poll on Hillary and Jeb Hillary like 51% dislike 48%
Jeb , I forget, but close to these numbers.... Like 32% Dislike 67%
Looks like Jeb has some work to do.
On the other side of the coin, CNBC talked about the NBC poll showed Americans favored continuing the interrogation procedures with terrorist detainees. people don't understand two things about that. ONE: that torture produced little or no actionable intelligence and TWO: that we actually killed over 100 people, many of whom were totally innocent. anyone who doesn't understand those two things will not be a good judge of whether we should torture or not. but furthermore, who cares whether people condone an immoral action? if the US public said it was OK to have sex with 12 year olds, would it be OK? no. it would not. I didn't know the second point. But I thought the first point was common knowledge. Which is why I don't understand why they continue to torture. It has been proven that torture is totally ineffective in getting data, so why?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 11:15:09 GMT -5
Jeb is the front runner. the two closest contenders are Christie and Ryan. either of them appeal to you? Out of that group I would pick Christie right now. Although that may just be because I don't know enough about him . He impressed me with the way he handled Sandy, but I never heard if he was involved in that whole traffic debacle.
I would seriously look at Ryan though. That guy impresses me. I like that he came out with his own budget and takes a stand on issues. The only problem is I usually disagree with the stand he takes, which makes it hard for me to vote for him.
Why can't there be a socially liberal, fiscally conservative candidate. I would vote for that person in a heartbeat.
I think Christie was absolved of the traffic thing. I hate the thought of another Bush or another Clinton. I love Ryan . Many things I don't agree with him on but agree with enough I could vote for him. I really doubt he will run though from what I have been hearing.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 17, 2014 11:18:05 GMT -5
people don't understand two things about that. ONE: that torture produced little or no actionable intelligence and TWO: that we actually killed over 100 people, many of whom were totally innocent. anyone who doesn't understand those two things will not be a good judge of whether we should torture or not. but furthermore, who cares whether people condone an immoral action? if the US public said it was OK to have sex with 12 year olds, would it be OK? no. it would not. I didn't know the second point. But I thought the first point was common knowledge. Which is why I don't understand why they continue to torture. It has been proven that torture is totally ineffective in getting data, so why? 2/3 of the people surveyed thought that we got some actionable intelligence. approximately the same number said that the CIA should keep doing it. the public has been desensitized to this immoral action. it is quite difficult to change that. but it can be done, with time and effort. as to why they tortured, Cheney said it pretty well: 911 was torture, waterboarding is not. that is a statement of revenge, in my book. but there are a LOT of other reasons. you seem like a nice, intelligent person, so i would be happy to discuss that with you, but i have to leave for work soon. maybe later.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 17, 2014 11:19:24 GMT -5
Out of that group I would pick Christie right now. Although that may just be because I don't know enough about him . He impressed me with the way he handled Sandy, but I never heard if he was involved in that whole traffic debacle.
I would seriously look at Ryan though. That guy impresses me. I like that he came out with his own budget and takes a stand on issues. The only problem is I usually disagree with the stand he takes, which makes it hard for me to vote for him.
Why can't there be a socially liberal, fiscally conservative candidate. I would vote for that person in a heartbeat.
I think Christie was absolved of the traffic thing. I hate the thought of another Bush or another Clinton. I love Ryan . Many things I don't agree with him on but agree with enough I could vote for him. I really doubt he will run though from what I have been hearing.
Christie is not completely out of the woods on bridgegate, nor is he likely to be by 2016. furthermore, his polling numbers are terrible right now, about HALF of what Bush is getting.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 11:23:11 GMT -5
I think Christie was absolved of the traffic thing. I hate the thought of another Bush or another Clinton. I love Ryan . Many things I don't agree with him on but agree with enough I could vote for him. I really doubt he will run though from what I have been hearing.
Christie is not completely out of the woods on bridgegate, nor is he likely to be by 2016. Well yes, once a suspect always a suspect. Do you have anything concrete to show he was involved? If yes please post the link because I have not yet seen that. Thanks.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Dec 17, 2014 11:23:46 GMT -5
Jeb has officially tweeted he is thinking of running for the Presidency. All we have to do is wait for Mitt to tweet back, and we have a potential unbeatable Republican ticket in 2016. You heard it here first. Mitt/Jeb in 2016
Tweet tweet! two things. one: Mitt already lost. he would be wise to not run again. two: yes, Jeb is the presumed front runner, but he is also not an especially strong candidate against CLINTON, should she decide to run. Words fail me, to adequately express how much terror that sentence has instilled in me...
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Dec 17, 2014 11:30:19 GMT -5
two things. one: Mitt already lost. he would be wise to not run again. two: yes, Jeb is the presumed front runner, but he is also not an especially strong candidate against CLINTON, should she decide to run. Words fail me, to adequately express how much terror that sentence has instilled in me... Then I suggest republicans work to find better candidates & not have a field of nominees that were horrible like last time.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 17, 2014 11:35:17 GMT -5
two things. one: Mitt already lost. he would be wise to not run again. two: yes, Jeb is the presumed front runner, but he is also not an especially strong candidate against CLINTON, should she decide to run. Words fail me, to adequately express how much terror that sentence has instilled in me... i am not particularly happy with it either. imo, either of these candidates are a step BACK IN THE DIRECTION OF BUSH. nobody could possibly doubt how i feel about that.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 17, 2014 11:36:20 GMT -5
Christie is not completely out of the woods on bridgegate, nor is he likely to be by 2016. Well yes, once a suspect always a suspect. Do you have anything concrete to show he was involved? If yes please post the link because I have not yet seen that. Thanks.
no, that is not what i meant. there are likely to be continuing investigations. Bridgegate is to NJ what Benghazi is to the House of Representatives: a source of endless inquiry. edit: do you have anything to show Obama was involved with Benghazi?
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Post by The Captain on Dec 17, 2014 11:36:51 GMT -5
Words fail me, to adequately express how much terror that sentence has instilled in me... Then I suggest republicans work to find better candidates & not have a field of nominees that were horrible like last time. I actually believe that sentiment goes both ways (as I intended it). I'm less than thrilled with both candidates mentioned above. Spoken from a point of view that has always voted for the person, not the party.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 17, 2014 11:38:03 GMT -5
Then I suggest republicans work to find better candidates & not have a field of nominees that were horrible like last time. I actually believe that sentiment goes both ways (as I intended it). I'm less than thrilled with both candidates mentioned above. Spoken from a point of view that has always voted for the person, not the party. Angel is inclined to vote Republican. so am i. so she could not care less who Democrats field.
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Post by The Captain on Dec 17, 2014 11:43:28 GMT -5
I actually believe that sentiment goes both ways (as I intended it). I'm less than thrilled with both candidates mentioned above. Spoken from a point of view that has always voted for the person, not the party. Angel is inclined to vote Republican. so am i. so she could not care less who Democrats field. Ahh, I actually never picked up on that nuance from Angel!. Not trying to start anything but I would guess that must cause some grief for her given that parties' position on such things as women's reproductive rights etc. As someone who has always been an independent, if I did have a party affiliation - I would care very much for whom the opposition would field. Course, living where I live, I don't really have much say in the matter.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 17, 2014 11:53:02 GMT -5
Angel is inclined to vote Republican. so am i. so she could not care less who Democrats field. Ahh, I actually never picked up on that nuance from Angel!. Not trying to start anything but I would guess that must cause some grief for her given that parties' position on such things as women's reproductive rights etc. As someone who has always been an independent, if I did have a party affiliation - I would care very much for whom the opposition would field. Course, living where I live, I don't really have much say in the matter. Angel! just got through saying that there is no such thing as a fiscally conservative Democrat, so she is inclined to vote Republican, if she can find one that is HANDS OFF on social issues. i quite agree with her.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Dec 17, 2014 12:02:54 GMT -5
Angel is inclined to vote Republican. so am i. so she could not care less who Democrats field. Ahh, I actually never picked up on that nuance from Angel!. Not trying to start anything but I would guess that must cause some grief for her given that parties' position on such things as women's reproductive rights etc.
As someone who has always been an independent, if I did have a party affiliation - I would care very much for whom the opposition would field. Course, living where I live, I don't really have much say in the matter. Which is why I pretty much always end up voting democrat for the big elections (senate, president, etc.). I would totally prefer to vote republican & often do on the more local level. I find that while I would prefer to vote for someone based on their fiscal policy, I absolutely can't if I have a big problem with their social policy.
I truly wish social policy could become a non-issue.
ETA - Basically what DJ just said
So get a Republican Candidate that is hands off when it comes to social issues & I would vote for them - republicans find the right guy this time!
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 17, 2014 12:11:57 GMT -5
Hillary won't even win the Dem nomination. Mark this thread. She'll run, and she'll win. The Democrats won't take back either the House or the Senate, however. As for this thread, it appears not everyone got their dose of "Hope and Change" from 2008. "Rand Paul is the man!"; he has a budget that works and he'll zero out that deficit. "Run Liz Run!"; she'll upend those Washington lobbyists and Wall Street fat cats. "Go Hillary!"; she'll bring back the boom times of the Clinton administration and right the ship. "We love Jeb!"; his investments in American innovation and technology will put Uncle Sam back on top. You're not illogical people. I suspect you've simply lived in the 20th century for too long. To you, the trend of the past 14 years is an exception that can be overcome rather than the harbinger of the New American Century. Or perhaps you've just chosen groundless optimism because the alternative provides no hope. I suppose one more go round might beat the "Hope and Change" out of you, so have at it. FWIW, my prediction is (and has been since the time Ms. Clinton claimed she wouldn't run) that Ms. Clinton would run for--and win--the Democratic nomination, and go on to win the 2016 presidency in a race against (my prediction since the 2013 hurricanes) Gov. Christie. Does any of this matter? No. Will that fact stop you from endlessly discussing, panning, plugging, and dissecting the candidates? No. I know you have fun doing it. I won't begrudge you that. It's just sad, is all.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 12:13:00 GMT -5
Well yes, once a suspect always a suspect. Do you have anything concrete to show he was involved? If yes please post the link because I have not yet seen that. Thanks.
no, that is not what i meant. there are likely to be continuing investigations. Bridgegate is to NJ what Benghazi is to the House of Representatives: a source of endless inquiry. edit: do you have anything to show Obama was involved with Benghazi? Well then we are in agreement about endless investigation though I don't think much effect on elections if investigations show no involvement. Could be wrong about that but I doubt that will be the big issue for Christie.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 17, 2014 12:14:51 GMT -5
no, that is not what i meant. there are likely to be continuing investigations. Bridgegate is to NJ what Benghazi is to the House of Representatives: a source of endless inquiry. edit: do you have anything to show Obama was involved with Benghazi? Well then we are in agreement about endless investigation though I don't think much effect on elections if investigations show no involvement. Could be wrong about that but I doubt that will be the big issue for Christie.
not sure whether i said it would be a big issue for him. i merely stated that it will still be there. but let me state something else: until the issue has passed, there will be a cloud hanging over him, innocent or not.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 17, 2014 12:16:10 GMT -5
for the record, i will take the 20th century over this one, any day.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 17, 2014 12:18:50 GMT -5
Hillary won't even win the Dem nomination. Mark this thread. She'll run, and she'll win. The Democrats won't take back either the House or the Senate, however. As for this thread, it appears not everyone got their dose of "Hope and Change" from 2008. "Rand Paul is the man!"; he has a budget that works and he'll zero out that deficit. "Run Liz Run!"; she'll upend those Washington lobbyists and Wall Street fat cats. "Go Hillary!"; she'll bring back the boom times of the Clinton administration and right the ship. "We love Jeb!"; his investments in American innovation and technology will put Uncle Sam back on top. You're not illogical people. I suspect you've simply lived in the 20th century for too long. To you, the trend of the past 14 years is an exception that can be overcome rather than the harbinger of the New American Century. Or perhaps you've just chosen groundless optimism because the alternative provides no hope. I suppose one more go round might beat the "Hope and Change" out of you, so have at it. FWIW, my prediction is (and has been since the time Ms. Clinton claimed she wouldn't run) that Ms. Clinton would run for--and win--the Democratic nomination, and go on to win the 2016 presidency in a race against (my prediction since the 2013 hurricanes) Gov. Christie. Does any of this matter? No. Will that fact stop you from endlessly discussing, panning, plugging, and dissecting the candidates? No. I know you have fun doing it. I won't begrudge you that. It's just sad, is all. Democrats will almost definitely take back the Senate in 2016. i would put the odds well north of 90%. the House is a tougher slog, but they have a good shot. maybe 60%? too early to tell. of course, if you get your wish, and the economy is in a death spiral, all bets are off. ok, gotta go. happy holidays!
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 17, 2014 12:18:58 GMT -5
for the record, i will take the 20th century over this one, any day. Don't I know it. You're still living in it, apparently, if you believe the outcome of the 2016 election has any relevance.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 17, 2014 12:20:10 GMT -5
for the record, i will take the 20th century over this one, any day. Don't I know it. You're still living in it, apparently, if you believe the outcome of the 2016 election has any relevance. oh, i think it does. the future of ObamaCare and the SCOTUS ride on that election. ok, good day.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 12:20:18 GMT -5
Well then we are in agreement about endless investigation though I don't think much effect on elections if investigations show no involvement. Could be wrong about that but I doubt that will be the big issue for Christie.
not sure whether i said it would be a big issue for him. i merely stated that it will still be there. but let me state something else: until the issue has passed, there will be a cloud hanging over him, innocent or not. I think the cloud has already passed. Just a little white fluff in the sky at this point subject to change in the next couple years of course.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 17, 2014 12:21:18 GMT -5
not sure whether i said it would be a big issue for him. i merely stated that it will still be there. but let me state something else: until the issue has passed, there will be a cloud hanging over him, innocent or not. I think the cloud has already passed. Just a little white fluff in the sky at this point subject to change in the next couple years of course. i think you are wrong, and i also think that i have followed this story closer than you. but that is all the time i have for it today.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 12:22:44 GMT -5
I think the cloud has already passed. Just a little white fluff in the sky at this point subject to change in the next couple years of course. i think you are wrong, and i also think that i have followed this story closer than you. but that is all the time i have for it today. Then post some links rather than insinuate you know something I don't. As time allows of course.
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