Men Giving Up on Women and Checking Out of Society

[imanangel]

I am still trying to figure out the comparison as well gooddecisions.  

I also would not have any sympathy if the author was a woman writing that stuff about men.  To me, it is just being whiney and not taking responsibility for their own lives.  

[mmhmm]

For certain issues such as transgenderism or "penetrative sex equals rape", the term "dismissive" (even "incredulous") very accurately characterizes my view.

Perhaps you can help me out here, Virgil Showlion. I don't recall anyone claiming the bolded above - ever. Could you show me where that was posted, please? Thanks.

[mmhmm]

Dec 7, 2014 15:10:10 GMT -5 imanangel said:

I am still trying to figure out the comparison as well gooddecisions.  

I also would not have any sympathy if the author was a woman writing that stuff about men.  To me, it is just being whiney and not taking responsibility for their own lives.  

I stated my take on it early on. I'm not condemning anyone, male or female. I do believe the young gentleman complaining about women he can't have is condemning himself, however, if he's the one shown sitting with his back to the camera. He refers to himself as a "boy". What I see pictured is not a boy, but a man. I can't help but believe he could better reach his purported goal if he'd stop thinking of himself as a boy and realize he's a man. That just might turn things around for him.

[tallguy]

Perhaps you can help me out here, Virgil Seafaring. I don't recall anyone claiming the bolded above - ever. Could you show me where that was posted, please? Thanks.

As I recall, it was Paul months ago quoting some radical feminist (probably out of context) in another anti-liberal rant.

[imanangel]

Dec 7, 2014 15:19:13 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Dec 7, 2014 15:10:10 GMT -5 imanangel said:

I am still trying to figure out the comparison as well gooddecisions.  

I also would not have any sympathy if the author was a woman writing that stuff about men.  To me, it is just being whiney and not taking responsibility for their own lives.  

I stated my take on it early on. I'm not condemning anyone, male or female. I do believe the young gentleman complaining about women he can't have is condemning himself, however, if he's the one shown sitting with his back to the camera. He refers to himself as a "boy". What I see pictured is not a boy, but a man. I can't help but believe he could better reach his purported goal if he'd stop thinking of himself as a boy and realize he's a man. That just might turn things around for him.

I am not condemning them...but I am not giving any sympathy either for the author (or the contributors) of THIS particular article.

[billisonboard]

Dec 7, 2014 15:01:57 GMT -5 gooddecisions said:

I didn't read the article, but just based on the comments here, ...

I agree. However, I read the article so my thoughts on the situation is based on the ideas in that article and not the bias of those posting here. I recommend reading the whole article.

[Virgil Showlion]

Dec 7, 2014 15:16:14 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

For certain issues such as transgenderism or "penetrative sex equals rape", the term "dismissive" (even "incredulous") very accurately characterizes my view.

Perhaps you can help me out here, Virgil Showlion. I don't recall anyone claiming the bolded above - ever. Could you show me where that was posted, please? Thanks.

We discussed it back in July, with the bolded claim referring to several links posted here. My initial thoughts on the articles were posted here, and some of the profanity-riddled excerpts of the main article were excerpted here.

[Virgil Showlion]

Dec 7, 2014 15:10:10 GMT -5 imanangel said:

I am still trying to figure out the comparison as well gooddecisions.  

I also would not have any sympathy if the author was a woman writing that stuff about men.  To me, it is just being whiney and not taking responsibility for their own lives.  

This is about i) drawing false parallels between lack of empathy and sexism, and ii) the appropriateness of the attitude "this is the way the world works; conduct yourself in a manner that acknowledges the reality" being erroneously labeled "blaming the victim" and/or sexism elsewhere on the board.

I was hoping Shooby would point out that easily 80% of the article has nothing to do with the individual profiled at the start, yet none of this 80% has thus far been addressed in this thread.

In particular, the article outlines some of society's more hostile feminist doctrines, it argues that reactions to prevailing feminist doctrines drive men towards casual and non-committal attitudes towards women, and it even has a paragraph about the increasing hypocrisy of women (or as it frames it, the broadening gap between what women say and what women do). It talks about nascent misandric laws, a rising tide of drugged young men, declining performance of male students, and the labeling of male behaviours as pathological.

If you contest the above assertions, so be it. I dismiss assertions I consider illogical all the time, and I highly recommend the practice. If you're arguing that none of the issues being raised are fundamentally as serious as issues such as catcalling and campus rape, there I disagree with you. I was rather surprised, in fact, to see how quickly and totally the article was rejected (by some quarters), which is what prompted my initial comment. I get the impression that most posters didn't read into it more than a paragraph or two.

[billisonboard]

Dec 7, 2014 16:48:51 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

...

In particular, the article outlines some of society's more hostile feminist doctrines, it argues that reactions to prevailing feminist doctrines drive men towards casual and non-committal attitudes towards women, and it even has a paragraph about the increasing hypocrisy of women (or as it frames it, the broadening gap between what women say and what women do). It talks about nascent misandric laws, a rising tide of drugged young men, declining performance of male students, and the labeling of male behaviours as pathological.

...

Thank you for taking the time to write this.

[Deleted]

How can you be on the internet and afraid to click a link? If you don't click links you don't do much online.

Virgil Showlion I have been in conversations when you will show up and your first post will be one of your "jokes" ridiculing the opinion opposite of yours. Doing it differently makes it no less dismissive. Ya know, in my circles we have a saying. If one person says you have a tale your safe to ignore them. When 5 people say you have a tale it's time to take a look.

[Virgil Showlion]

Dec 7, 2014 17:37:14 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

How can you be on the internet and afraid to click a link? If you don't click links you don't do much online.

Virgil Showlion I have been in conversations when you will show up and your first post will be one of your "jokes" ridiculing the opinion opposite of yours. Doing it differently makes it no less dismissive. Ya know, in my circles we have a saying. If one person says you have a tale your safe to ignore them. When 5 people say you have a tale it's time to take a look.

It depends on how tightly correlated the five opinions are and other factors such as history, grudges, and the number of people simultaneously telling you you don't have a tale (tail?) For example, I could easily find five posters to endorse the statement "Laterbloomer is a pot-stirrer and a troll.", and that still wouldn't make it so.

I don't recall joking about sensitive subject matter (notwithstanding the mod report thread, where the attempt of the two jokes I made was to lighten the mood and where I've already agreed not to joke again). If you're referring to satire (e.g. this), yes my judgment could be better, and yes, I will make more of an effort to avoid it in future in sensitive threads. If that's not what you're referring to, you'll have to point me to something more specific.

[resolution]

 As an gaming enthusiast, I can assure you that this group is a tiny subset of gamers.  It is a mistake to portray this as a big gamer issue. This is not some large demographic shift to gaming. In fact the largest group of gamers is now adult women, and 46% of gamers are married.


www.dailydot.com/geek/adult-women-largest-gaming-demographic/

www.esrb.org/about/video-game-industry-statistics.jsp

www.bigfishgames.com/blog/2013-gamers-survey-results-demographics-platforms-and-smartphone-use/

Although they are a small subset of gamers, I have run across a number of them during a decade of gaming. In general the ones I have met are very transient and have a lot more problems than just women. Most gaming groups will tolerate them when they make bitter comments about women, but they tend to escalate to attacking other racial groups and then get kicked out of the guild or clan. Or they just rage quit and move from guild to guild. It doesn't really matter how skilled they are at gaming because eventually their social problems will result in them being kicked and having to start over with a new group.

[billisonboard]

Dec 7, 2014 18:10:15 GMT -5 resolution said:

 As an gaming enthusiast, I can assure you that this group is a tiny subset of gamers. ...
Although they are a small subset of gamers, ...

And gamers are a small subset of the people who are being discussed in the article.

[resolution]

There have been a number of comments on the thread correlating these men with gaming, so I thought a small clarification would be in order.

From my experience of the few that I have met, I have to admit that I didn't have much patience with the article. The ones I have met gaming are messed up in many areas and not just in how they relate to women; women are just an easy target for them.

I agree that the schools have created an environment that is more suitable for female traits and have excluded a lot of the physical activity that would help boys to learn. They are also medicating way too many children in an effort to fit them into the system instead of redesigning the system to be appropriate to more learning styles.

[mmhmm]

Dec 7, 2014 16:15:14 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Dec 7, 2014 15:16:14 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Perhaps you can help me out here, Virgil Showlion. I don't recall anyone claiming the bolded above - ever. Could you show me where that was posted, please? Thanks.

We discussed it back in July, with the bolded claim referring to several links posted here. My initial thoughts on the articles were posted here, and some of the profanity-riddled excerpts of the main article were excerpted here.

If you were referring to the ridiculous blogs/articles written by idiots who don't have a clue and either linked, or copy/pasted here, mea culpa. I took, from your post, you were referring to posters here referring to sexual penetration as being equal to rape. I don't believe anyone here has ever said that, or would ever say that. Rape occurs when no permission is given. There is, however, a fool born every minute and, unfortunately, most of them will learn to type somewhere along the way.

[steff]

I don't recall joking about sensitive subject matter (notwithstanding the mod report thread, where the attempt of the two jokes I made was to lighten the mood and where I've already agreed not to joke again)

Then clearly you have a very selective memory.  I can name a specific topic you have ridiculed & belittled my opinion on.  To the point you even created a comic of me being killed by a mob because of my views. 

You have condescending tone down pat & you whip it out against women often. 

[billisonboard]

Dec 7, 2014 19:15:41 GMT -5 steff said:

...

You have condescending tone down pat & you whip it out against women often. 

Not just women.

[Virgil Showlion]

Dec 7, 2014 18:34:58 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Dec 7, 2014 16:15:14 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

We discussed it back in July, with the bolded claim referring to several links posted here. My initial thoughts on the articles were posted here, and some of the profanity-riddled excerpts of the main article were excerpted here.

If you were referring to the ridiculous blogs/articles written by idiots who don't have a clue and either linked, or copy/pasted here, mea culpa. I took, from your post, you were referring to posters here referring to sexual penetration as being equal to rape. I don't believe anyone here has ever said that, or would ever say that. Rape occurs when no permission is given. There is, however, a fool born every minute and, unfortunately, most of them will learn to type somewhere along the way.

Take it up with Opti. She objected to my characterization of the article as "unintelligent", which led to a three-page debate about it.

[steff]

Dec 7, 2014 19:26:20 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Dec 7, 2014 19:15:41 GMT -5 steff said:

...

You have condescending tone down pat & you whip it out against women often. 

Not just women.

True. 

[mmhmm]

Dec 7, 2014 19:35:46 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Dec 7, 2014 18:34:58 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

If you were referring to the ridiculous blogs/articles written by idiots who don't have a clue and either linked, or copy/pasted here, mea culpa. I took, from your post, you were referring to posters here referring to sexual penetration as being equal to rape. I don't believe anyone here has ever said that, or would ever say that. Rape occurs when no permission is given. There is, however, a fool born every minute and, unfortunately, most of them will learn to type somewhere along the way.

Take it up with Opti. She objected to my characterization of the article as "unintelligent", which led to a three-page debate about it.

I have no reason to "take it up with" Opti. Opti is as entitled to her opinion as I am to mine, or you are to yours. My post was simply to let you know I'd misunderstood your post to say someone(s) here had said sexual penetration was rape. Such was not the case, so I owed you an apology; hence, the mea culpa. Opti had/has nothing to do with it as far as I'm concerned.

[Virgil Showlion]

Dec 7, 2014 19:26:20 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Dec 7, 2014 19:15:41 GMT -5 steff said:

...

You have condescending tone down pat & you whip it out against women often. 

Not just women.

Thank you.

If I didn't take the ideological gloves off with women as well as men, what would that say about my opinion of women?

steff: You've thrown that comic back at me so many times I've lost count. In the spirit of being candid: It happened three (four?) years ago, I sent you a sincere apology by PM explaining my intent, and you quite literally told me to "____ off". You "like" every post that's even moderately critical of anything I say, you've made at least a dozen statements 'Virgil says...' and 'Virgil thinks...' followed by twisted or outright mendacious interpretations of my stated views, and I get it that you wouldn't throw a cup of water on me if I was on fire.

These are my grievances with you. Not with women. Not with people who disagree with me. Not with the board. You.

You resent me, I can't do anything to change that, and it's certainly your prerogative to do so. If you want to extrapolate my reaction to that as condescension towards women generally, I can't stop you there either.

I respect your intellect and candor despite the fact that we strongly disagree on most issues. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings with the comic. I would appreciate it if you'd forgive me for it.

[steff]

Dec 7, 2014 20:13:54 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Dec 7, 2014 19:26:20 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Not just women.

Thank you.

If I didn't take the ideological gloves off with women as well as men, what would that say about my opinion of women?

steff: You've thrown that comic back at me so many times I've lost count. In the spirit of being candid: It happened three (four?) years ago, I sent you a sincere apology by PM explaining my intent, and you quite literally told me to "____ off". You "like" every post that's even moderately critical of anything I say, you've made at least a dozen statements 'Virgil says...' and 'Virgil thinks...' followed by twisted or outright mendacious interpretations of my stated views, and I get it that you wouldn't throw a cup of water on me if I was on fire.

These are my grievances with you. Not with women. Not with people who disagree with me. Not with the board. You.

You resent me, I can't do anything to change that, and it's certainly your prerogative to do so. If you want to extrapolate my reaction to that as condescension towards women generally, I can't stop you there either.

I respect your intellect and candor despite the fact that we strongly disagree on most issues. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings with the comic. I would appreciate it if you'd forgive me for it.

I find the idea that you have any kind of respect for me or my views laughable.  You've made it crystal clear that you really don't.  

As far as the comic, it was cruel, uncalled for, vicious and one of the most horrifying things I've ever had thrown at me because of my opinion.   No, I will never forgive or forget it.  it was a blatant attack & attempt to intimidate me.  It proved that you have absolutely no respect for my views or opinion.  The fact that you even went there with it was the most offensive thing I've ever seen a MOD be allowed to do. 

It also was the fastest example (without searching) of how you DO make fun of/joke about women & their views.

[Virgil Showlion]

Life goes on, then.

(For those not aware of "the comic", it was about steff being slain vampire-style for P&M apostasy after claiming she'd lost her "P&M spirit". A version I made for an old poster, krickitt [who found it hilarious, BTW], is viewable here. I provide this for reference purposes.)

[steff]

  Krickett as a glowing reference.   Now THAT is some funny ass shit.  

[Shooby]

I have always found Virgil to be a true gentleman.

[Jaguar]

Dec 7, 2014 21:23:41 GMT -5 Shooby said:

I have always found Virgil to be a true gentleman.

Some of the times.

[Virgil Showlion]

Dec 7, 2014 20:53:18 GMT -5 steff said:

  Krickett as a glowing reference.   Now THAT is some funny ass shit.  

She was a P&M regular. I made the comic about her, posted it, and she got the joke. So did virtually everyone else.

I posted it a few months later when you complained that you hated P&M and planned to quit posting. You took exception and I took the comic down as soon as I found out. I apologized via PM and you told me off, hence I dropped the matter.

You've brought it up at least once a year since then, at one point claiming that it depicted you being "gang raped", and on another occasion claiming that it depicted "members being killed by a gang over their abortion beliefs", both of which are total lies.

So I wash my hands of this now. Believe what you want and lie away. Note that I will petition the other moderators to delete any future posts in which you lie about the content of the comic. I've had to set the record straight far too many times now.

[zibazinski]

Is it your turn now? Usually it's WWBG that catches the heat.

[steff]

and there's the high and mighty condescending Virgil that I know so well. 

[Opti]

For certain issues such as transgenderism or "penetrative sex equals rape", the term "dismissive" (even "incredulous") very accurately characterizes my view.

What in the heck does the above have to do with this thread?

Certain threads really should remain dead. Just because I can understand an

author's point of view I disagree with during a discussion does not mean I have much

memory of it in the present or care to.