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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 20:40:00 GMT -5
We saw the same video. You saw a choke hold because the Media told you that's what you saw. I saw an arm lock take-down that doesn't involve choking (which is what it was) because I helped train some police officers on that exact same take-down procedure in a co-venture with the Rescue Squad that I worked on. You are the one arguing facts that don't exist. huh. i did martial arts training, and they called what is in the video a choke hold. and by the way, you are 100% wrong about the media bias part of your argument. i didn't see it in "the media". i read NO articles on it. the only discussion i have participated in about it is this one. so, if YOU are "the media", then yeah, i got it from the media. but thanks for convincing me that we can't enjoy a reasonable discussion. good night. We can enjoy a reasonable discussion... when you want to discuss reasonably. Good night to you as well. As far as "me" being the media, you couldn't have gotten it from me. You could, however, have picked it up from others here and they picked it up from the media. Either way, it's still not a choke hold. And no amount of saying it is will ever make it be one.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 20:41:54 GMT -5
Except for the bolded (which is bullcrap), I agree with everything you said. i thought that banned techniques were illegal. therefore, i was using these as synonyms. if that is NOT correct, then it would appear that this "bullcrap" amounted to a misunderstanding. hooray? Banned by policy can get you fired. Illegal by law can get you jailed or fined. Slight, but important, difference.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 6, 2014 21:01:00 GMT -5
Choking someone to death is just as illegal as shooting them to death- it should have been really simple to show that on officer using a banned hold that resulted in the death of a suspect should at a minimum be charged with negligent homicide.
This was not a 'self-defense' situation like could be argued in Ferguson- so there is no out as far as I see it. Something the hell is wrong when multiple officers cannot manage to arrest a person without killing them. Something is far worse with a system that routinely allows the bad officers to get away with it. Maybe the Feds can do better with this guy- if anything he should have been fired the second the autopsy was released. Hell- the city already settled one lawsuit against the guy and another one is still in the works- take a freaking hint he's not worth it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 21:17:00 GMT -5
forgive me for saying so, but this is nonsense. this is a fact, not an interpretation. We saw the same video. You saw a choke hold because the Media told you that's what you saw. I saw an arm lock take-down that doesn't involve choking (which is what it was) because I helped train some police officers on that exact same take-down procedure in a co-venture with the Rescue Squad that I worked on. You are the one arguing facts that don't exist. "Arm lock take down"? Seriously? When I google arm lock take down this is what comes up
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 21:19:23 GMT -5
Please note: This Looks nothing like this
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Dec 6, 2014 22:05:59 GMT -5
And if Garner had gone peacefully into custody for questioning when approached by officers, without resisting arrest to begin with, he would probably still be alive.
He also had health issues which contributed in his death. Since he'd been arrested numerous times before, it's not like this was something new to him. He was stopped on suspicion of yet another crime and officers had to use force to restrain him when he resisted. But keep blaming the cops, and victimizing the criminal, who was active in illegal activity including petty and grand larceny among other crimes.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 22:11:04 GMT -5
Please note: This Looks nothing like this Juyst as there are different versions of "choke holds" there are different versions of "arm lock"... in this one it's the subject's arm that's locked, in the police one that I trained with it's the police officer's arms that are locked in a specific manner so that choking is not a probability.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 22:25:20 GMT -5
Richard every version of arm lock involves locking the arm of the suspect, not the police officer. The hold that officer has Eric in is a choke hold, it is absolutely nothing like an arm lock.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 22:31:52 GMT -5
Richard every version of arm lock involves locking the arm of the suspect, not the police officer. The hold that officer has Eric in is a choke hold, it is absolutely nothing like an arm lock.My personal, live, with a trainer, experience says otherwise. (it was 15 years ago, though, so terminology could have changed, in fairness, I have to acknowledge that) Either way... don't call it an arm lock if you don't want to , but also, don't call it a choke hold... because it's not.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 22:39:22 GMT -5
I have shown that it most definitely is a choke hold Richard. Not just me saying so, a picture showing so. You are wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 22:47:42 GMT -5
I have shown that it most definitely is a choke hold Richard. Not just me saying so, a picture showing so. You are wrong. You have shown it goes around the neck (ETA: something that I never disputed, by the way). You have not shown that it chokes. Ergo, you have NOT shown that it was a choke hold (which would be hard to do... since it isn't one).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 23:19:44 GMT -5
I have shown that it most definitely is a choke hold Richard. Not just me saying so, a picture showing so. You are wrong. You have shown it goes around the neck (ETA: something that I never disputed, by the way). You have not shown that it chokes. Ergo, you have NOT shown that it was a choke hold (which would be hard to do... since it isn't one). Medical Examiner Rules Eric Garner's Death a Homicide, Says He Was Killed By ChokeholdNBC New yorkI no your expert on ALL THINGS except probably a MEDICAL EXAMINER is more expert than you.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 6, 2014 23:21:13 GMT -5
That's why we rely on medical examiners and not internet posters to determine whether it was a choke or not.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 23:29:28 GMT -5
You have shown it goes around the neck (ETA: something that I never disputed, by the way). You have not shown that it chokes. Ergo, you have NOT shown that it was a choke hold (which would be hard to do... since it isn't one). Medical Examiner Rules Eric Garner's Death a Homicide, Says He Was Killed By ChokeholdNBC New yorkI no your expert on ALL THINGS except probably a MEDICAL EXAMINER is more expert than you. Might want to check the veracity of your sources. Note that the Times inserted it's own opinion, "(choke hold)" into the statement. A coroner/M.E. worth his medical license would NOT have written that in his/her report, because it's pure speculation at the time of the autopsy. The Times (like all the other media outlets) wants to keep everyone stirred up by the "choke hold" buzz words.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 23:41:42 GMT -5
Medical Examiner Rules Eric Garner's Death a Homicide, Says He Was Killed By ChokeholdNBC New yorkI no your expert on ALL THINGS except probably a MEDICAL EXAMINER is more expert than you. Might want to check the veracity of your sources. Note that the Times inserted it's own opinion, "(choke hold)" into the statement. A coroner/M.E. worth his medical license would NOT have written that in his/her report, because it's pure speculation at the time of the autopsy. The Times (like all the other media outlets) wants to keep everyone stirred up by the "choke hold" buzz words. ROFL Your more expert than medical examiner If his neck got compressed he got choked the end. Your NOT the big expert sorry.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 23:47:10 GMT -5
Might want to check the veracity of your sources. Note that the Times inserted it's own opinion, "(choke hold)" into the statement. A coroner/M.E. worth his medical license would NOT have written that in his/her report, because it's pure speculation at the time of the autopsy. The Times (like all the other media outlets) wants to keep everyone stirred up by the "choke hold" buzz words. ROFL Your more expert than medical examiner If his neck got compressed he got choked the end. Your NOT the big expert sorry. Neck compression could have happened while on the ground, while he was being held down (but not necessarily while in any "hold" the went around his neck). I guess that didn't occur to you. And I never said I was "more expert", I've just dealt with them. They don't do speculation. They do facts. Period (if they are worth their license anyway).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 9:05:56 GMT -5
OMG @richardintn give it up! You are wrong...and your continued carrying on is making you look foolish.
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Post by Shooby on Dec 7, 2014 10:25:23 GMT -5
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Post by billisonboard on Dec 7, 2014 10:31:12 GMT -5
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 7, 2014 11:44:42 GMT -5
i thought that banned techniques were illegal. therefore, i was using these as synonyms. if that is NOT correct, then it would appear that this "bullcrap" amounted to a misunderstanding. hooray? Banned by policy can get you fired. Illegal by law can get you jailed or fined. Slight, but important, difference. a difference i didn't acknowledge before now. so, we good?
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Post by Opti on Dec 7, 2014 12:26:46 GMT -5
Using the same logic, all people who hate concealed carry shouldn't trust it because of the guy who shot & killed the man with the over-active cell phone in the theatre.
Stupid people and mistakes get people killed. I guess you will be pro repeal all concealed carry too now?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 19:09:40 GMT -5
Banned by policy can get you fired. Illegal by law can get you jailed or fined. Slight, but important, difference. a difference i didn't acknowledge before now. so, we good? Yup. "We good" (I'd've preferred "we're good"... but I can accept the colloquialism ).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 21:08:36 GMT -5
OMG @richardintn give it up! You are wrong...and your continued carrying on is making you look foolish. I'd happily give it up if I were, indeed, wrong. However, since that is not that case, I shan't discontinue the pursuit of truth.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 21:14:05 GMT -5
I don't know what you are doing, but you are not pursuing the truth.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 7, 2014 21:27:55 GMT -5
The autopsy is the truth- the cop compressed his neck to the point that the jugular veins were closed off- resulting in death and leaving obvious evidence to that fact. Plus they put enough weight on him that he could not expand his chest. He could not breathe. They killed him plain as day.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 7, 2014 21:36:10 GMT -5
Surely a rescue squad member knows what petechiae means when it shows up in eyeballs, no?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 21:46:33 GMT -5
I don't know what you are doing, but you are not pursuing the truth. The fact that you cannot recognize the truth doesn't detract from my pursuit of it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 21:50:38 GMT -5
Surely a rescue squad member knows what petechiae means when it shows up in eyeballs, no? Maybe not every Rescue Squad member does (some are new, you know)... but yes, I do. I also know that it's caused by ANY form of asphyxiation... not just "choke holds" (which, again, wasn't the cause of death here)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 21:52:20 GMT -5
The autopsy is the truth- the cop compressed his neck to the point that the jugular veins were closed off- resulting in death and leaving obvious evidence to that fact. Plus they put enough weight on him that he could not expand his chest. He could not breathe. They killed him plain as day. The bolded contradicts the italicized... I wonder if you realized that. I never said his death wasn't a result of police action. Let's keep that clear.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 21:59:35 GMT -5
No they don't. With the angle they had him you can see that both are probably happening at once.
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