DD & MIL's Issues

[marvholly]

Pat

You have enough on your plate W/DD. If APS does not work out it is WAAAY more than time to tell DH to get his........bottom home & deal with it. For sure by his next leave make it HIS problem. For your health & sanity this needs to get resolved where you ar OUT of it.

[seriousthistime]

Pat, I think it's a good thing you're leaving.  They will have to sink or swim while you're gone, and if they sink, then, oh well.  I know that sounds harsh, but no one including your DH is taking this as seriously as you are.  You are a good hearted person and people are taking advantage (and I don't just mean MIL and her sister).  DH's cousin needs to step up and he is not doing so.  What happens next is on him. Then if MIL improves without her sister around, good.  If she does not, or if she's taken away at the same time, then everything you have predicted will come true and you can't stop it.  DH will have to deal with it.

I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone in the "sandwich" generation (parents and kids needing you) who had it quite as challenging as you do.  

[Opti]

I'll probably delete this because its contrarian and seems on the surface unsupportive.

DH and his brother are going to continue to ignore this until something bad happens.

Pat isn't wiling to force the issue and be really disliked to make it stop so the buck is

now falling to the neighbors ... if they are willing to buck the trend and take it.

I've seen dementia up close and personal for my personal life and also over 3 years

in various patients where I work. Its a pipe dream to expect things to get better more

than momentarily.

Even if APS says they can't live on their own, what is the plan? Where will they live?

How will it be paid for?

[Ombud]

Mar 14, 2015 11:04:22 GMT -5 @patstab said:

(1) We talked yesterday, he said well if I quit and come home then what, we rotate going over there and living with her? .... (2) The son is NOT busy. .... (3) I'm just exhausted.  This is emotionally draining.

(1) Can you see how he's right?? Quitting his job & being drained emotionally as well will only delay the inevitable for a short time (2) WHY should he short circuit his life when you are delaying the inevitable (3) But on some level it gives you purpose otherwise you would have let go.

And I still say if they call the cops enough the choice will be made for them!

What would I do? Get in the motor home today and leave. Take a well deserved rest with full knowledge that you've done all you can for as long as you can & let the chips fall where they may. We know you love her but you cannot 'save' her from dementia. You CANNOT fix it / her and in a way you're compounding the issue by insisting on having them age in place. Think of what would happen if there was a cold night! Don't people die from hypothermia?

[Opti]

Pat I think you are shooting yourself in the foot when you lie to MIL about

things like her sister. Lying to people with dementia should be something you

do because you are validating their reality and not stressing them unnecessarily

but *NOT* for your convenience. When you lie to them and they know you are lying it just

builds up distrust. In this case she knows you are lying about your involvement

which makes it less likely she will trust your word on moving her to assisted living

or anything similar.

You don't have to tell her everything, but acknowledging you did talk to the brother

and you don't think she is doing well enough to live on her own or with MIL would

be truthful and be bridge building instead of destroying.

Try to imagine what it might be like to be her. You are losing your short term memory.

You know you aren't fully yourself. Things are happening and you know people aren't

telling the truth. You go to confront a DIL who is helping you because you are pretty

sure she is lying to you, but you want to give her the opportunity to fess up. She doesn't

and doubles down. How likely are you to trust what DIL says in the future?

[Ombud]

Yes I read your posts. All of them. Thankfully there's somewhere to blow off steam (I would've locked my house so she couldn't stand at my bedroom door)

If you really want it to end today, drive that motor home away with your 2 4 - legged kids (cat & dog). They'll adapt to the motor home

[Ombud]

I love auto pay. I could be out of commission forever and still have all bills paid on time (ex: property tax)

[Opti]

Its your life Pat, so just be happy with your choices.

If it were me, I would check on them because one day it might be

something more serious than someone just not choosing to answer the phone.

These are elderly people, not healthy young adults so seeing someone moving

around is at best only evidence at least one of them is currently not dead.

(Sorry if I am a little extreme, another not quite expected death at work.

And discussing how patients die and how sometimes how quickly and unexpected

it happens. FWIW.)

I so would not leave the dog with MIL. Dementia and brain changes are not a choice.

Her ability or not to take care of the dog will not fully be up to her. For someone who

is regularly forgetting where her purse and keys are, losing weight(questionable eating habits)

is not someone I would entrust with the care of a living being except perhaps a plant if I

was OK if it died.

Its unfortunate its gone down the way it has, but you can't control it, just do the best

you can or are willing to do. Some day, perhaps soon, they will be unable to operate the

phone. You say they are losing the ability to use the TV. Your MIL's path might be different

from my Mom's, however I still remember her losing the ability to use the TV and not

break it, and then the phone. Blessedly, this happened AFTER she went into assisted living.

[Opti]

I get not wanting to take care of the sister. Not sure how easy it that is

given they are currently living together and sis is not self sufficient.

I'm sure it is wickedly stressful.

Found a nice slideshow that might help you show DH the physical nature of dementia.

I think at this time, nothing has been found to reverse these changes only slow them.

www.medicinenet.com/dementia_pictures_slideshow/article.htm

[busymom]

I can feel your pain from here, Pat. You've got enough on your plate, with your DH working so far away, dealing with DD on your own. You don't need any other responsibilities at this point.

I've got DS to worry about, but it's a bit different. But, DH works long days, so everything is still on me. Add in that I'm overseeing Mom's care, & another relative (who aren't living with me), & trying to get Mom's house ready to sell, & it's simply exhausting. It's hard to describe to someone who's never dealt with any of this just how draining it can be.

I wouldn't blame you one bit if you found a place in Florida. In fact, if you find a good community there, clue me in on where it is, o.k.?

[Opti]

MIL is unlikely to agree she needs to move to assisted living, but we all can

hope. Have you considered hiring someone to come in to assist with light housekeeping,

at least one meal and at least a few hours of supervision? You could get DH to convince

his cousin to pay half the cost. It would be cheaper than assisted living and it might

also give you an outsider to help document what state MIL is in.

It would get you out of the business of MIL care. Just a thought.

[swamp]

My mom has dementia.   It does you no good to expect people with dementia to remember things, or get frustrated when they don't. It's part of the disease.   They can't help it.

Pat, you are a very rational person. She isn't rational, and isn't capable of it.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Pat.  Go.  Leave.  Take the cat and DD and go.  With you out of the picture, other people will have to step in, like your #$% R^&YTG #$^& &*)( husband's cousin (or whatever he is)  Until he gets the daily calls about her, he's not going to pull his head out of his ass. 

As for the new couple - the other neighbors will probably give them a heads up on "avoid them at all costs and never be alone with them"  But you can't save everyone.  At this point, you need to save yourself.  So get into that motor home and go. 

[Opti]

I was worried sick over MIL, she was not home when I went by about 7:30. She NEVER goes anywhere toward dark, never, never, never.

Changes in the brain will result in more unexpected changes

in behavior. It can be shocking. Been there. Remembering some of the

odd stuff my Mom did.

[Opti]

I think you might try to use MIL's belief that this kid is coming into their

place as one of the many reasons she can not live on her own. Forget logic.

You have to convince them using their own reality not the one you are living.

So instead of telling them to lock their doors, etc. use it as reasons they aren't

safe or capable on their own. 'Well, if you keep losing your keys and someone

keeps coming in here, don't you think its time you live somewhere safer where

he isn't nearby?'

If you change your focus from trying to show them how they are wrong to using

what they believe to get them from living in the mobile, you are going to be happier.

They also might be more tractable if you stop trying to tell them they are wrong.

Try to realize they aren't able to control what parts of their brain work or don't, so

they might come up with some very interesting stuff. Dementia rules are much like Improv

rules. No shouldn't exist, only yes. So instead of 'No he couldn't possibly have come in here.'

you use what they believe to get somewhere safer. 'Well if you can't seem to keep him out

it does seem you really should move into assisted living. They'll have the keys and they

don't let just anyone in...'

I'm still learning all the tricks. Its hard if you prefer to use logic, but I do understand finally

how cruel it is to use logic on someone who is left with a much different brain than the one

they started with. Knowing they have no control over what disappears and how, makes me

exercise patience and compassion. I'm glad your DH might be seeing the light!

[CCL]

I don't think vitamins are gonna cure anyone. At some point there's not a whole lot you can do. At least the dog and cat are in good hands. Maybe you can sue the former rental owner. They have to disclose known problems with a house before selling. Didn't you get a disclosure form from them?

[midjd]

I think the easiest way to take care of it would be to call him and say "Hey dipshit, your mom is calling the cops again. I'm in Florida so you can deal with both of them (just like I have all winter). See ya!"

[Wisconsin Beth]

Mar 18, 2015 6:03:53 GMT -5 midjd said:

I think the easiest way to take care of it would be to call him and say "Hey dipshit, your mom is calling the cops again. I'm in Florida so you can deal with both of them (just like I have all winter). See ya!"

1,000 this. 

As long as you are there, being the responsible person, no one else is going to do squat.  Go Pat.  Go and force someone else to handle this. 

[kjto1]

Mar 18, 2015 6:47:00 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Mar 18, 2015 6:03:53 GMT -5 midjd said:

I think the easiest way to take care of it would be to call him and say "Hey dipshit, your mom is calling the cops again. I'm in Florida so you can deal with both of them (just like I have all winter). See ya!"

1,000 this. 

As long as you are there, being the responsible person, no one else is going to do squat.  Go Pat.  Go and force someone else to handle this. 

  Go and have fun on your trip!  Only answer calls from your DH and the vet - since you have the cat and dog there.

[Opti]

Mar 18, 2015 6:47:00 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Mar 18, 2015 6:03:53 GMT -5 midjd said:

I think the easiest way to take care of it would be to call him and say "Hey dipshit, your mom is calling the cops again. I'm in Florida so you can deal with both of them (just like I have all winter). See ya!"

1,000 this. 

As long as you are there, being the responsible person, no one else is going to do squat.  Go Pat.  Go and force someone else to handle this. 

This son and her DH likely were born in the 50s or 40s. Its impossible to force someone

to do something, especially those who have already demonstrated do nothing is their

preferred mode of dealing with the situation. They grew up in eras where issues like these are

handled by the women in the family. My Dad is a little older, but I am perfectly aware if Mom

did not do it, he was not going to. (Remember your history, a women's right to vote was not

granted until 1920 by the nineteenth amendment. Home and family being a men's concern

is far more recent.)

I will be pleasantly surprised if I am wrong. Odds are it will be some talk and perhaps manly

fixing of TVs, doors, or whatever.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Mar 18, 2015 9:15:39 GMT -5 Opti said:

Mar 18, 2015 6:47:00 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

1,000 this. 

As long as you are there, being the responsible person, no one else is going to do squat.  Go Pat.  Go and force someone else to handle this. 

This son and her DH likely were born in the 50s or 40s. Its impossible to force someone

to do something, especially those who have already demonstrated do nothing is their

preferred mode of dealing with the situation. They grew up in eras where issues like these are

handled by the women in the family. My Dad is a little older, but I am perfectly aware if Mom

did not do it, he was not going to. (Remember your history, a women's right to vote was not

granted until 1920 by the nineteenth amendment. Home and family being a men's concern

is far more recent.)

I will be pleasantly surprised if I am wrong. Odds are it will be some talk and perhaps manly

fixing of TVs, doors, or whatever.

I know.  But if the woman (Pat) isn't there to handle it, the cops, APS and the neighbors will be calling the men.  Who will have to step in while she's gone.  The sooner she leaves and the longer she's gone, the faster that transition will happen. 

[Opti]

They will be called. And as we have already seen, they might not even be reachable.

Only an unfortunate medical event or at fault car crash is IMO likely to get them to

act and place their Moms in a facility.

I think neither son has medical POA on either Mom and neither Mom wants to acknowledge

how bad off they are. Very common. So it appears everyone is waiting. Waiting for the

Moms to see reason or something bad enough to happen that official authorities can force

something to happen. Then they might act to pick a facility, hospital, or funeral director

but I'd be extremely surprised if it simply got resolved because Pat left for a week or two.

I do admire the optimism. POAs handled by men and by women usually are handled

differently in general by each gender. Getting a hold of some men with POA can take

weeks. The women tend to be more involved and easier to contact. Some men and families

have a hard time seeing their loved one slip away so they don't visit or rarely and make it

hard to contact them. (Reminder: I've been working in a facility for several years in which

generally half or more of the population has dementia or some sort of confusion.)

[midjd]

Does it matter if it's resolved or not? If I were Pat, all that would matter to me was that I no longer had to deal with it. (I'm guessing that's what matters to the cousin too, based on his behavior).

There's very little that can be done to solve the problem absent some more extreme behavior from one of the sisters. It's unfortunate that there isn't more in place to assist families who find themselves battling an elderly relative with dementia. But that doesn't mean Pat has to make this HER problem. Her responsibility is to her children and future grandchild, not to her husband's mother or aunt. And after 5 decades of taking care of other people, I think it's more than past time for her to focus on herself.

It might sound heartless, but if it were me, MIL and aunt would be on their own. Let their sons deal with them.

JMO.

[Opti]

Does it matter if it's resolved or not? If I were Pat, all that would matter to me was that I no longer had to deal with it.

If that is all she really cares about she can stop doing things now.

I think because it is her MIL, she's not on board with doing nothing at all and everyone

doing nothing at all.

[Opti]

There's very little that can be done to solve the problem absent some more extreme behavior from one of the sisters. It's unfortunate that there isn't more in place to assist families who find themselves battling an elderly relative with dementia. But that doesn't mean Pat has to make this HER problem. Her responsibility is to her children and future grandchild, not to her husband's mother or aunt. And after 5 decades of taking care of other people, I think it's more than past time for her to focus on herself.

It might sound heartless, but if it were me, MIL and aunt would be on their own. Let their sons deal with them.

JMO.

Mid, you are married to a younger and much more modern man. Traditionally yes it was

part of the wife's responsibility to care for her husband's Mom if it came to that. There

are many things in place to help with dementia and they do cost $$. Homecare is an option

if they can not convince them to leave.

Pat and her husband chose to move to Indiana because of his Mom. Her responsibilities are

in circles. Immediate family first, i.e herself, DH, DD and DS. After that circles outward

are somewhat a matter of opinion. Would her own Mother be more or less important than

a grandbaby? The grandchild has parents to take care of it, MIL has Pat's DH and her.

Should it really be treat the elderly with diseases they have no control over like crap because

they aren't as fun as healthy grandkids? Pat got the MIL by marrying DH. The grandkids exist

or not dependent on your kids marrying and reproducing. She actively agreed to MIL.

Grandkids are a choice someone else makes. JMO.

(I don't have the heart to let people crash and burn especially if they have little control

over how it happens.)

[Chocolate Lover]

Mar 18, 2015 10:39:34 GMT -5 Opti said:

There's very little that can be done to solve the problem absent some more extreme behavior from one of the sisters. It's unfortunate that there isn't more in place to assist families who find themselves battling an elderly relative with dementia. But that doesn't mean Pat has to make this HER problem. Her responsibility is to her children and future grandchild, not to her husband's mother or aunt. And after 5 decades of taking care of other people, I think it's more than past time for her to focus on herself.

It might sound heartless, but if it were me, MIL and aunt would be on their own. Let their sons deal with them.

JMO.

Mid, you are married to a younger and much more modern man. Traditionally yes it was

part of the wife's responsibility to care for her husband's Mom if it came to that. There

are many things in place to help with dementia and they do cost $$. Homecare is an option

if they can not convince them to leave.

Pat and her husband chose to move to Indiana because of his Mom. Her responsibilities are

in circles. Immediate family first, i.e herself, DH, DD and DS. After that circles outward

are somewhat a matter of opinion. Would her own Mother be more or less important than

a grandbaby? The grandchild has parents to take care of it, MIL has Pat's DH and her.

Should it really be treat the elderly with diseases they have no control over like crap because

they aren't as fun as healthy grandkids? Pat got the MIL by marrying DH. The grandkids exist

or not dependent on your kids marrying and reproducing. She actively agreed to MIL.

Grandkids are a choice someone else makes. JMO.

(I don't have the heart to let people crash and burn especially if they have little control

over how it happens.)

So, basically, Pat should suck it up and kill herself with all the stress over this because her husband and his cousin were raised to expect her to? No, just no.

[Opti]

So, basically, Pat should suck it up and kill herself with all the stress over this because her husband and his cousin were raised to expect her to? No, just no.

I never said that anywhere. You said it and believe that's what I believe. I don't.

They have $$. Google homecare for seniors. There are tons of organizations and options.

[swamp]

Mar 18, 2015 11:21:13 GMT -5 Opti said:

So, basically, Pat should suck it up and kill herself with all the stress over this because her husband and his cousin were raised to expect her to? No, just no.

I never said that anywhere. You said it and believe that's what I believe. I don't.

They have $$. Google homecare for seniors. There are tons of organizations and options.

There are no options if the senior doesn't want to go. And while there may be tons of options where you live, rural Indiana probably isn't brimming with them. I know NNY isn't.

And it's Pat's money. Why does she need to spend it on her MIL? she has a daughter that needs lifetime care.

[Chocolate Lover]

Mar 18, 2015 11:21:13 GMT -5 Opti said:

So, basically, Pat should suck it up and kill herself with all the stress over this because her husband and his cousin were raised to expect her to? No, just no.

I never said that anywhere. You said it and believe that's what I believe. I don't.

They have $$. Google homecare for seniors. There are tons of organizations and options.

You not believing that's what you said doesn't mean that isn't exactly what came out of all your posts. You choose not to see it that way. You've defended the men repeatedly, when are you going to defend Pat for being sick of it all? It's not like she ever got a break from caring for someone like most people in her generation have. There's a lull between kids and parental care where you get to have a life usually. Not for her.

IMO, her DD's need for lifetime care trumps MIL's disinterest in going to assisted living. MIL has had time to figure this crap out before she got to this point. Pat's DD only has her parents to figure it out for her. And fund it. 

[Opti]

Mar 18, 2015 11:25:36 GMT -5 swamp said:

Mar 18, 2015 11:21:13 GMT -5 Opti said:

I never said that anywhere. You said it and believe that's what I believe. I don't.

They have $$. Google homecare for seniors. There are tons of organizations and options.

There are no options if the senior doesn't want to go. And while there may be tons of options where you live, rural Indiana probably isn't brimming with them. I know NNY isn't.

And it's Pat's money. Why does she need to spend it on her MIL? she has a daughter that needs lifetime care.

Home Care. Care at home. Options people use when seniors won't leave the home or

they decide to care for them at home.

Why should Pat spend some of that money on MIL? Maybe in part because it is her son

earning it? Listen, she and her DH are going to do what they are going to do. Maybe they

will be influenced by what is posted here, maybe they won't.

Yes there are fewer options in rural areas. Still, if you can't get trained help you can do what's

been done for years which is just hire someone to do what you don't want to do. If unemployment

is as high as Pat says in her area, she will be able to find someone. Might only cost about $8/hr.

(CNAs get paid as low as $9-$10/hr in NJ, minimum wage is $7.50?)