DD & MIL's Issues

[Malarky]

Hugs, Pat.   

Nothing helpful to add, just want you to know there's someone in your corner.  

[busymom]

Pat, regarding your MIL, I would call the county, & speak with someone in the social services department to advise you. I know you don't have a POA, but I'm thinking her behavior might make it easy for the county to "step in" & get her moved somewhere where she'll be safer than living at her place.

I seriously want to spank your DH for "dumping & running" on you. Yes, I know it's his job to work overseas, etc., but, I joined a Mom's group back when DS was in preschool (all of us had kids with different disabilities), & you'd be annoyed & amazed at how many dads would just bury themselves in their jobs, even working lots of overtime, so they wouldn't have to deal with their kids, leaving the moms to make a lot of the tough decisions. It's easier for a man to occupy himself with his work, rather than roll up his sleeves & help.

Regarding the financial situation with your DD, in our state the county pays for housing for a permanently disabled adult child, & if you are legal guardian you do have some say in where they end up living. (Unless your DD has a bunch of personal assets.) If all the assets in the family are owned by you & your DH, that doesn't count towards your DD, and the kids are allowed up to $2000 in assets before the state hits you up for expenses. That's just how it works here. Maybe that's another question for your own social services department.

[kittensaver]

Feb 11, 2015 13:38:57 GMT -5 Ombud said:

We have a process called 5150 in California. Basically, if someone is 1 of 3 things (danger to yourself, danger to others, or unable to care for self), they can be hospitalized by the PD

But good luck with this one. BTDT, have a dozen t-shirts to prove it.

My relative is severely mentally ill and chronically homeless (he does the revolving door of streets/jail/hospital/streets/jail/hospital) and I STILL can't get him conserved or committed. He gets picked up by LAPD, put in the local jail (for acts/public acting out related to his paranoia and homelessness) and after about 18 hours they figure out he's not a mere bad boy, he's VERY ill. So off he goes (under a 5150 order) to the County hospital - where they immediately downgrade him from an involuntary, 14 day hold to a voluntary, 3 day hold mostly because he's learned that verbally agreeing to take medication is his easy pass out of the system. They drug him heavily and then release him - sometimes in the middle of the night (because they won't get paid by Medicaid for another day's stay if it's past 2 am), and the cycle starts again.

The State does not have the resources for long term care - a few dozen beds in the State hospitals and that's about it. Because resources are so scarce and the threshold for personal liberty is so high (that's normally not a bad thing) it is almost *impossible* to try and prove his is unable to take care of himself - literally. One County social worker told me that eating out of garbage cans was not a sign of being unable to care for himself - rustling around garbage cans was *proof* he had the wits to take care of himself. NO JOKE  I've watched him "pull himself together" and be lucid in front of a judge - and talk his way out of being conserved. There are many factors that conspire/work in confluence to make this law a joke.

[zibazinski]

I'm so sorry for your pain. You've both sacrificed your lives and done the best you could given your circumstances. It's time to take care of you. She's not in her right mind about hating you. Of course you know that but it still hurts to hear it.

[Value Buy]

I am confused.

Are you in Texas or Indiana right now?

It sounds like you are back home in Indiana.

I thought you were wintering in Texas

[busymom]

Pat, I'm so thankful you're finding some professionals who are stepping forward to help you. I can't even imagine the stress you're dealing with right now. But, do what you need to, both for your own sanity, & your personal safety.

Just a thought, but was your DD upset about leaving Texas?  I'm wondering if this is a delayed reaction to not being happy about the move.  Not that it should keep you from moving, but I know big changes can really mess with kids, for example, on the autism spectrum.

[Wisconsin Beth]

All I can do is sympathize and offer hugs Pat. 

[WholeLottaNothin]

So sorry to hear of your troubles, Pat.

I had an Uncle who had Prader-Willi Syndrome. He lived at home until he was in his early 40's. At that point the state opened up a group home for people with Prader-Willi and he moved in there. It did him a world of good. He was around people like himself, and he was just generally a happier person. He died in 2011 at the age of 59 from complications unrelated to the Prader-Willi. But at the time he died he was engaged to someone else at one the state houses. It isn't unheard of for there to be weddings and marriages. If she gave it a chance, I think your DD would be surprised. She would probably enjoy it much more than she thinks. The social aspect could open up a whole new world for her.

[taz157]

Feb 13, 2015 14:51:41 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

All I can do is sympathize and offer hugs Pat. 

[zibazinski]

I realize she's having issues but as far as dressing wrong for the weather, let her do it. When she gets cold, she will fix it. My kids always wanted to dress like it was 80 even when it got cold in Florida. It DOES get cold in Florida. I stopped arguing about it and wonders, they came back in and changed clothes. I'm too tired to try to control every little thing.

[zibazinski]

True. But that's unlikely. Constitution like horses. It's us that have illnesses.

[zibazinski]

Hangry is an actual thing. Both DD and I suffer from it. 

[seriousthistime]

Pat, let me just add to what everyone else has said.  I, too, am sorry for your troubles. 

I agree that maybe your DH needs to see that his wanting to earn money for your future is going to backfire if there isn't a future for the two of you to share.  He can't work until he drops because then he is denying you a future with him, and if you are gone, he won't want to be left to deal with this.  He might want to reconsider how long he plans to work.  You need him now.  

I know a family that had a lot of kids.  A few of them have developmental delays and/or mental illness. The kids with the problems lived at home because the parents could not bear to make other arrangements for them.  The others got married, had their own families, and could never convince the parents to look into group homes for the others. The family was very close-knit.  The parents died early on, and the other kids in the family had to figure it out.  It took a long time, but each of the disabled kids is in a different living situation now, and it appears to me that they are happier in their respective situations than they ever were at home with their parents.  

I know it is very difficult and you might feel guilty having to consider making decisions now about placing DD in a different situation, but at some point you will come to realize that making decisions now is way better than making decisions later on or leaving them for someone else to make. 

[zibazinski]

Pat, there's an article today on Yahoo Parenting I think you should take a look at. 

[Opti]

Pat, I am sorry for what is happening. If both sisters are really losing it, reason

will not work. I'm not sure what the best approach would be. Perhaps doing your

best to be patient and saying something like 'I know you think it was stolen, but lets

see if it was brought back and is somewhere inside the house'. You telling them nothing

was stolen is not going to change their mind. Unfortunately. But perhaps you finding

items they thought were stolen my ratchet down their anxiety a bit.

 

Also, make sure they are hydrated and poop enough. Apparently being dehydrated

and constipated can make elderly folk act demented.

[kjto1]

I wonder what would have happened to MIL and Aunt by now if you had not moved back?  If they are taken by ambulance to the hospital, and you don't come and get her - you are not legally responsible for her - would they do a mental evaluation and a social worker work with them to put them in assisted living?

[Opti]

If they don't eat and drink enough eventually dehydration or something similar

will strike. Then it will get ugly but I suppose on the plus side they will get

hospitalized.

I think, but do not know, that stealing on the brain as you put it might be

somewhat common in those with dementia or dementia type issues.

Dementia is not normal memory loss. Normal memory loss is forgetting

where your purse is more and more often as you get older. Dementia is

believing someone must have stolen it instead of you mis-placed it. Connections

get scrambled or go missing so logic does not always work.

In other words,

normal person: I can't find my purse -> where the heck did I put my purse?

In someone with the dementia that latter step might be missing or substituted,

so I can't find my purse -> that bad boy must have stolen my purse.

I'm a logical person and I totally understand how hard it is to listen to someone say

something illogical and want to correct them. I have learned though from my years

in healthcare with confused, anxious, and patients with dementia its a really bad and

unhelpful approach. If logic fails, its best to agree and redirect. Kind of like Improv

only with someone who can't help the fact their reality is different than usual. Yes its

tough knowing this is how it can be. Just try to be thankful its not early onset Alzheimers

and do the best you can.

[busymom]

<HUGS> for Pat.

And, you are correct. Assisted-living (at least around here) would not handle behavior like that. They'd be sent to the nursing home.

The authorities are going to have to step in, but every state does this differently. If your relatives are not eating properly, or getting enough fluids, sadly they will probably end up in the hospital, or worse. It does sound like dementia to me: fixating on a perceived problem (blaming the neighbor for stealing), and even when you prove they've still got their purses/wallets, they still think the neighbor is stealing from them. Can you call Social Services before you leave town, & tell them "it's time" (and warn them no one will be around to supervise their erratic behavior)? 

[Blonde Granny]

Pat, I think it's too bad that you have allowed yourself to dragged into your husbands family drama.  If anyone is supposed to be fixing all this it's your DH and the son of the aunt.

As hard as it might be for you to butt out, that's exactly what you need to do. It's time to understand your roll in HIS family is not yours...it's your DHs. If it was me, I'd wash my hands of it with a "don't call me I'll call you" then pack up your MH and leave. Take care of your DD, she is YOUR responsibility, not some people who you aren't even related to.

Then, I'd tell DH to pack his bags, quit his job and get his ass home where it belongs. Then maybe I'd also add that you and DD are not coming back until he's back for good.

[Ombud]

No WONDER your DH works out of country! You may say it's where the job is, perhaps it's where the family drama isn't?

[Wisconsin Beth]

Hugs Pat.

I would make sure that all of the neighbors have the numbers for APS before you leave.  And encourage them to call when anything starts, along with the sheriff.  My take, for what it's worth, is that unless everyone is making a lot of noise about MIL and her sister's conditions, no one will do anything useful. 

I hope you have a WONDERFUL time with the MH.  Do your best to relax and enjoy yourself.  And stay as long as you want because the longer you are gone, the more your DH and his cousin will have to deal with their moms and the further along resolution (whatever it will be) will be. 

[Ombud]

What would happen if:
♤ you just left
♡ no forwarding number
♢ no forwarning the cops
♧ told the neighbor's to call 911 when they act out (which they will)


IMHO:
☆ you get a well deserved reprieve
☆ DH & BIL get harassed
☆ Auntie & MIL get placed
#1 Problem solved

[Opti]

told the neighbor's to call 911 when they act out (which they will)

Would you personally call 911 because the elderly neighbor accuses you of stealing?

I probably wouldn't. Not sure if the police would search my place find nothing and possibly

search their place and not find it either. Probably would not be a plus.

I think if they do something 911 worthy like breaking into someone else's home thinking

its theirs or something more serious they would have called 911 first and Pat second.

They are calling Pat because they are concerned, but they haven't called 911 because

they correctly see it is not 911 worthy. JMO.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Mar 10, 2015 9:58:04 GMT -5 Opti said:

told the neighbor's to call 911 when they act out (which they will)

Would you personally call 911 because the elderly neighbor accuses you of stealing?

I probably wouldn't. Not sure if the police would search my place find nothing and possibly

search their place and not find it either. Probably would not be a plus.

I think if they do something 911 worthy like breaking into someone else's home thinking

its theirs or something more serious they would have called 911 first and Pat second.

They are calling Pat because they are concerned, but they haven't called 911 because

they correctly see it is not 911 worthy. JMO.

Which is why giving them the Adult Protective Services number is better and encouraging them to call is important. 

If a bunch of people are calling about 2 people, repeatedly, APS will have to respond.  If they don't, report them to the news and whatever agency oversees them.  Yeah, budgets are not good but that doesn't eliminate their responsibility to look into adults at risk. 

[Wisconsin Beth]

DD who knows all this says we need to go. I asked her how could she, she said because its the right thing to do. Sometimes she amazes me.

 sometimes my kids amaze me too.  It's awesome, humbling and just odd in a weird package - at least for me. 

[Ombud]

Mar 10, 2015 9:58:04 GMT -5 Opti said:

told the neighbor's to call 911 when they act out (which they will)

Would you personally call 911 because the elderly neighbor accuses you stealing?

No but I would if they were a danger to themselves. Thought Pat lived in an area that got cold .... but then I live in a town of 10k people & 20 cops. They're expected to do more than traffic

[Wisconsin Beth]

Go Pat.  Go and relax as best you can. 

[seriousthistime]

Pat, I really feel for you.  You are dealing with so much on so many levels.

My parents are gone now, so I am the older generation (early 60s).  I still work and hope to do that for a few more years, but your thread is making me think two things:  (1) when it's time, go willingly to assisted living so my kids don't have to worry, and (2) I hope I don't become so obstinate in my old age that don't forget or change my mind about (1).

[busymom]

Hang in there, Pat.

And, if someone is declared mentally incompetent, they may not be able to initiate, or revoke any legal paperwork. They have to be "of sound mind".

[seriousthistime]

Mar 12, 2015 9:21:11 GMT -5 @patstab said:

Give them a POA while you still can, don't wait then you will likely not do it if you need to.

Got 'em.  Have had them for years.  Still, when there are multiple kids, some might be reluctant to buck the power if they others don't agree.  This is why some doctors are reluctant to "pull the plug" even with a POA and living will.  I have a different kid with medical POA than for financial POA.  Both kick in when I am no longer competent to make my own decisions.  Until that time, I can revoke them.

I might mention that if I move out of state I might need to redo them in my new state.  Something to consider as those of us move around to warmer states, closer to grandchildren, or whatever.