OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Nov 18, 2014 6:46:53 GMT -5
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 18, 2014 7:23:47 GMT -5
Jumping on the money train. Good luck to her. Not.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 18, 2014 8:06:57 GMT -5
I saw something on this too. She's also like the 5th person to publicly accuse Bill Cosby of rape.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 18, 2014 8:34:05 GMT -5
Sure, one got paid off so now others try it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2014 9:11:48 GMT -5
I have never seen any reports of Bill being charged with anything. Did I miss it?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 18, 2014 9:18:21 GMT -5
I have never seen any reports of Bill being charged with anything. Did I miss it? They're all old reports, if I recall correctly. I'm not saying they're not valid (or that they got paid off, I know nothing on that) but it's not anything recent, which would be why you never heard anything. Slate did something on it a while back. I'll try to find a link. Found it. It's from Feb. 2014 and here's the first couple of paragraphs. www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/02/13/bill_cosby_sexual_assault_allegations_why_isn_t_anyone_paying_attention.html Last month, Dylan Farrow published a letter in the New York Times accusing her father, Woody Allen, of molesting her, 20 years after she first spoke out against him as a 7-year-old child. The month before, the Village Voice republished reams of documents describing allegations that R. Kelly repeatedly raped young girls, more than a decade after the initial investigation first made national news. With these two buried sexual-assault allegations newly relevant, Gawker’s Tom Scocca asked why there was no similar discussion about another buried celebrity case: “Who wants to remember Bill Cosby’s multiple sex-assault accusations?”
Cosby, Scocca recounts, has been accused of targeting, grooming, then drugging and raping multiple young women as early as the 1970s and as recently as 2004. Newsweek’s Katie J.M. Baker wanted to remember, and interviewed two women who made some of the since-forgotten allegations against Cosby. And yet the rekindled discussion about Cosby’s sexual abuse hasn’t quite incited the media firestorm that those against Kelly and Allen did. Why not?
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Nov 18, 2014 9:29:07 GMT -5
Hmmm. Probably because it's a rich guy's word versus a 17-year-old's (at the time). Of course, the rich guy ALWAYS has the advantage. (And the lawyers...)
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 18, 2014 10:01:55 GMT -5
Plus, of course, since he's rich, there's money to be gained.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Nov 18, 2014 10:07:12 GMT -5
Seriously? This guy has been accused of rape multiple times over 30 years. But of course women are only accusing him because he's rich. JFC.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Nov 18, 2014 10:18:37 GMT -5
We have no way of knowing whether these allegations are true, or false. I'd hope they aren't true as I've always admired the man. That doesn't mean, however, he's beyond reproach. We'll have to see what happens here. Usually, where there's smoke, there's fire but it's not ours to guess at. If he did these things, I wish the young woman luck with her case - even if she did wait 30 years to report it. If he didn't do these things, he needs to step forward and defend himself, IMO.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 18, 2014 10:32:35 GMT -5
Reputation counts for something. If there's no evidence, I don't believe it.
There's no such thing as "defending yourself" against 30-year-old rape accusations. What is he going to say? Honestly?
He did absolutely the right thing on NPR. No. No, I will not entertain these questions. No, I have already dealt with this issue. No, I will not give my detractors anything they might turn against me. No, people who believe I did it are going to believe that regardless of what I say; people who believe I'm innocent may not care for my explanation and change their minds.
If physical evidence does surface (I don't know how, but if) then colour me shocked and dismayed, and apologies for my skepticism go out to the victims. But in the case of Mr. Cosby, I need physical evidence.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Nov 18, 2014 10:43:35 GMT -5
If this case goes to court, Mr. Cosby will, indeed, have to defend himself. That's what I meant, Virgil. I just didn't say it well.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Nov 18, 2014 11:38:02 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 18, 2014 11:43:18 GMT -5
If this case goes to court, Mr. Cosby will, indeed, have to defend himself. That's what I meant, Virgil. I just didn't say it well. Actually, the prosecution will have to prove their case.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2014 12:08:25 GMT -5
True or not- The molested, the raped and most other's who were truthfully sexually abused, are rarely believed anyway. So why bother coming forward- Fromthe
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Nov 18, 2014 12:55:10 GMT -5
If this case goes to court, Mr. Cosby will, indeed, have to defend himself. That's what I meant, Virgil. I just didn't say it well. Actually, the prosecution will have to prove their case. And while they're doing so, Mr. Cosby and team will have to defend.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 18, 2014 13:26:20 GMT -5
True or not- The molested, the raped and most other's who were truthfully sexually abused, are rarely believed anyway. So why bother coming forward- Fromthe Thirty years after the fact, leveling allegations against a respected entertainer, bearing with them no physical evidence (insofar as I'm aware), and with the very real possibility of obtaining a lucrative settlement as a possible ulterior motive? No, I'm not going to believe them. If there turn out to be police statements filed in proximity to the alleged crimes, that would sway my opinion. Regardless, "I didn't feel anyone would take the allegations seriously" isn't a valid excuse. A man drugged you, he raped you. It is a brutal crime. It is the truth. You tell the truth regardless of whether or not people will believe you. If you do not forgive a crime, you establish a record of its commission. Otherwise, if you build up the courage to speak out 30 years later with a multi-million payout on the line, your testimony isn't believable. You concealed the truth then and we can't tell you apart from a greedy sociopath today. Forgive my skepticism, but this is Bill Cosby, and reputation does count for something in the absence of physical evidence.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 18, 2014 13:29:40 GMT -5
True or not- The molested, the raped and most other's who were truthfully sexually abused, are rarely believed anyway. So why bother coming forward- Fromthe Thirty years after the fact, leveling allegations against a respected entertainer, bearing with them no physical evidence (insofar as I'm aware), and with the very real possibility of obtaining a lucrative settlement as a possible ulterior motive? No, I'm not going to believe them. If there turn out to be police statements filed in proximity to the alleged crimes, that would sway my opinion. Regardless, "I didn't feel anyone would take the allegations seriously" isn't a valid excuse. A man drugged you, he raped you. It is a brutal crime. It is the truth. You tell the truth regardless of whether or not people will believe you. If you do not forgive a crime, you establish a record of its commission. Otherwise, if you build up the courage to speak out 30 years later with a multi-million payout on the line, your testimony isn't believable. You concealed the truth then and we can't tell you apart from a greedy sociopath today. Forgive my skepticism, but this is Bill Cosby, and reputation does count for something in the absence of physical evidence. I understand why she wouldn't come forward when it was alleged to have happened. She's 17. He's a powerful adult. Nobody would have believed her then and she would have been subject to the same questioning she's getting now.
however, I do understasnd that celebrities are a magnet for false accusations. I don't necessarily believe her just because she said it happened. But I don't necessarily disbelieve her because of the time that passed.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 18, 2014 13:51:26 GMT -5
Thirty years after the fact, leveling allegations against a respected entertainer, bearing with them no physical evidence (insofar as I'm aware), and with the very real possibility of obtaining a lucrative settlement as a possible ulterior motive? No, I'm not going to believe them. If there turn out to be police statements filed in proximity to the alleged crimes, that would sway my opinion. Regardless, "I didn't feel anyone would take the allegations seriously" isn't a valid excuse. A man drugged you, he raped you. It is a brutal crime. It is the truth. You tell the truth regardless of whether or not people will believe you. If you do not forgive a crime, you establish a record of its commission. Otherwise, if you build up the courage to speak out 30 years later with a multi-million payout on the line, your testimony isn't believable. You concealed the truth then and we can't tell you apart from a greedy sociopath today. Forgive my skepticism, but this is Bill Cosby, and reputation does count for something in the absence of physical evidence. I understand why she wouldn't come forward when it was alleged to have happened. She's 17. He's a powerful adult. Nobody would have believed her then and she would have been subject to the same questioning she's getting now.
however, I do understasnd that celebrities are a magnet for false accusations. I don't necessarily believe her just because she said it happened. But I don't necessarily disbelieve her because of the time that passed.
I don't care if a man dressed up as a pink banana beats me senseless and I have to report to the police that I was left for dead by a pink banana, I would report the crime. Even as the police are laughing me out of the police station, the claim goes into a database. Maybe two years down the line some other guy comes in claiming he was beaten senseless by a pink banana and suddenly the original claim doesn't seem so absurd anymore. A few more claims are filed and police realize that I was the first victim in a series of beatings. I can't definitely say what I would or wouldn't have done at age 17, and I don't condemn a scared 17-year-old girl who decides not to report, but my point stands that as a rational being I simply cannot take her word for it 30 years after the fact. She failed to take the necessary action at the time, she has no physical evidence now, I deeply respect the man she's accusing, and I'm not a psychic. And if there are any 17-year-old girls reading this post: If a man rapes you, report the bastard ASAP in spite of people's skepticism. It is the truth. If Mr. Cosby is indeed guilty, let this case be a reminder of what happens when people conceal the truth.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 18, 2014 13:52:53 GMT -5
Cops’ beliefs about what constitutes a credible rape victim often prejudices their reporting of the incident and can affect whether the case moves forward. Often, if “there’s any inclination that there might be another motive,” the officers subject the alleged victim to “a light interrogation” to attempt to assess her credibility, a measure that one officer said is “very unique” to sex crimes. If the officers conclude that the victim may not be credible, the suspect may not be questioned at all. (Police mistreatment is one reason victims cite for withdrawing a report of rape or else not calling the cops in the first place.) One officer told Venema that cases had been “jeopardized” after a responding officer’s personal “judgments” showed up in the police report, which later showed up in court. And often, responding officers never learn how the cases pan out—so even if a report they’ve deemed fishy turns out to be credible, they never think to challenge their initial assumptions about the victim. “We don’t get any feedback from the detective as to what happened with the reports,” one officer said, so “if I don’t hear anything about it … I’m thinking it got shit canned.”
Some of the officers Venema interviewed acknowledged that the practical realities of sexual assault police work are frustrating and sad. And at least one officer said that cops with more experience investigating sex crimes know that the responding officer’s judgments are often “inaccurate” and that alleged victims are routinely “misjudged.” One bit of good news: Even when officers had suspicions about the veracity of a report, they had to still complete the necessary paperwork and hand it off to detectives. “I would love to just be able to can it off my desk today and not waste my time on it, but you can’t,” one said of ambiguous reports. “You got to make sure you cover everything.”www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/11/18/how_cops_respond_to_rape_a_new_study_of_officers_at_one_police_department.html
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 18, 2014 13:58:44 GMT -5
I am never surprised when I find out powerful men have acted inappropriately towards women. Not that they all do it, but it always is possible.
I don't confuse Cosby's public characters with his personal self. Plus, he has said and done some dickish things publicly - so he might just be a jerk who did whatever he wanted.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 18, 2014 14:06:29 GMT -5
I understand why she wouldn't come forward when it was alleged to have happened. She's 17. He's a powerful adult. Nobody would have believed her then and she would have been subject to the same questioning she's getting now.
however, I do understasnd that celebrities are a magnet for false accusations. I don't necessarily believe her just because she said it happened. But I don't necessarily disbelieve her because of the time that passed.
I don't care if a man dressed up as a pink banana beats me senseless and I have to report to the police that I was left for dead by a pink banana, I would report the crime.
Even as the police are laughing me out of the police station, the claim goes into a database. Maybe two years down the line some other guy comes in claiming he was beaten senseless by a pink banana and suddenly the original claim doesn't seem so absurd anymore. A few more claims are filed and police realize that I was the first victim in a series of beatings. I can't definitely say what I would or wouldn't have done at age 17, and I don't condemn a scared 17-year-old girl who decides not to report, but my point stands that as a rational being I simply cannot take her word for it 30 years after the fact. She failed to take the necessary action at the time, she has no physical evidence now, I deeply respect the man she's accusing, and I'm not a psychic. And if there are any 17-year-old girls reading this post: If a man rapes you, report the bastard ASAP in spite of people's skepticism. It is the truth. If Mr. Cosby is indeed guilty, let this case be a reminder of what happens when people conceal the truth. Nobody is going to call you a whore, question your morals, or imply you asked for it for getting beat up by a pink banana.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 18, 2014 14:07:31 GMT -5
I understand why she wouldn't come forward when it was alleged to have happened. She's 17. He's a powerful adult. Nobody would have believed her then and she would have been subject to the same questioning she's getting now.
however, I do understasnd that celebrities are a magnet for false accusations. I don't necessarily believe her just because she said it happened. But I don't necessarily disbelieve her because of the time that passed.
I don't care if a man dressed up as a pink banana beats me senseless and I have to report to the police that I was left for dead by a pink banana, I would report the crime. Even as the police are laughing me out of the police station, the claim goes into a database. Maybe two years down the line some other guy comes in claiming he was beaten senseless by a pink banana and suddenly the original claim doesn't seem so absurd anymore. A few more claims are filed and police realize that I was the first victim in a series of beatings. I can't definitely say what I would or wouldn't have done at age 17, and I don't condemn a scared 17-year-old girl who decides not to report, but my point stands that as a rational being I simply cannot take her word for it 30 years after the fact. She failed to take the necessary action at the time, she has no physical evidence now, I deeply respect the man she's accusing, and I'm not a psychic. And if there are any 17-year-old girls reading this post: If a man rapes you, report the bastard ASAP in spite of people's skepticism. It is the truth. If Mr. Cosby is indeed guilty, let this case be a reminder of what happens when people conceal the truth.they get away with crimes?
Seriously, what happens to them?
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steff
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Post by steff on Nov 18, 2014 14:18:34 GMT -5
Let's keep in mind that 30 years ago you were guaranteed to put the victim on trial more so than the rapist. MANY women don't report rape for that reason. The more powerful the rapist, the more likely the rape won't be reported. Fear is a very powerful thing.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 18, 2014 14:25:35 GMT -5
But he can be sued for damages.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 18, 2014 14:28:47 GMT -5
Let's keep in mind that 30 years ago you were guaranteed to put the victim on trial more so than the rapist. MANY women don't report rape for that reason. The more powerful the rapist, the more likely the rape won't be reported. Fear is a very powerful thing. Yes and the Slate thing I pasted in is a recent interview with officers on how they handle rape victims. If that's a microcosm of the rest of the US/World, it ain't good.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 18, 2014 14:36:20 GMT -5
I don't care if a man dressed up as a pink banana beats me senseless and I have to report to the police that I was left for dead by a pink banana, I would report the crime. Even as the police are laughing me out of the police station, the claim goes into a database. Maybe two years down the line some other guy comes in claiming he was beaten senseless by a pink banana and suddenly the original claim doesn't seem so absurd anymore. A few more claims are filed and police realize that I was the first victim in a series of beatings. I can't definitely say what I would or wouldn't have done at age 17, and I don't condemn a scared 17-year-old girl who decides not to report, but my point stands that as a rational being I simply cannot take her word for it 30 years after the fact. She failed to take the necessary action at the time, she has no physical evidence now, I deeply respect the man she's accusing, and I'm not a psychic. And if there are any 17-year-old girls reading this post: If a man rapes you, report the bastard ASAP in spite of people's skepticism. It is the truth. If Mr. Cosby is indeed guilty, let this case be a reminder of what happens when people conceal the truth.they get away with crimes?
Seriously, what happens to them?
"People conceal[ing] the truth" refers to the putative victims, and "what happens" is that people don't believe them. Do I care about that more than about establishing a record of a heinous crime? Suppose I'd witnessed somebody else being raped and the victim didn't come forward. If I report the crime and the victim denies it, all of the rage and skepticism comes down on me like a ton of bricks. Should I not report it for that reason? What would your advice to me be? And if your advice is "You should report it.", why does that suddenly change when the victim is me? Exactly my point. I should also ask: Based on the allegations that have emerged thus far, who here believes Mr. Cosby is guilty? Who would vote to put him on trial?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 18, 2014 14:39:51 GMT -5
... I should also ask: Based on the allegations that have emerged thus far, who here believes Mr. Cosby is guilty? Who would vote to put him on trial? I disagree that this is something that you "should ... ask". I don't think that a "public poll" is of any value in situations like this.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 18, 2014 14:39:54 GMT -5
As a prosecutor I would not follow through with the case because of the age and the lack of evidence. That doesn't mean he didn't do it, though.
I have no idea whether or not he did it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2014 15:16:49 GMT -5
Virgil. There are so, so many little girls (& boys), tween teens and up who, out of fear/shame when being sexually abused, did not know how to mentally process what was happening to them at the time, let alone tell anyone. They become silenced little lambs over time, keeping their painful thoughts to themselves while protecting their abuser. But over time, the effects of sexual abuse or abuse of ANY kind begins to show up. There can be all sorts of life debilitating effects from abuse. Protecting an abuser, which most children and adults do, baffles most in the world, but for certain it is done all the time. Children head off to school jolly-like all the time, day after day as if all is well on the home front. When in fact, life at home is the exact opposite. Secrets of child sexual abuse is remained hushed for decades until that adult child begins to face the secrets of their past-- By the time that child realizes the cause and effect of the ill effects, most know- To share their deep secrets of sexual abuse will more than likely be in vain.
I am not at all on jury duty when it comes to the allegations against Bill Cosby. I knew very few, if any, wouldn't believe one or one hundred women accusing him of sexual misconduct.
Abusers protect their abusers all the time. Until--
Swamp. I do understand your take on the matter.
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