Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 20, 2014 7:39:43 GMT -5
I am sure there was a lot of drugs , sex and rock and roll going in celebrity circles back in that time.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 20, 2014 8:27:27 GMT -5
I am sure there was a lot of drugs , sex and rock and roll going in celebrity circles back in that time. None of that happens in celebrity circles these days. It was specifically in the 80's. As I said before, my opinion doesn't matter so I don't feel obligated to get all the facts or anything. I pretty much believe he did this to some women. I have never gotten the sense that Bill Cosby is a nice guy. Funny, yes. Nice - no. Although, watching Janice Dickenson - I am not convinced he raped her. She is so pathetic and desperate, I wouldn't be surprised if she is jumping on the bandwagon for publicity.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 20, 2014 8:55:06 GMT -5
The black man strayed off of the white liberal plantation. Sooo he must be destroyed and Clarence Thomased or Herman Cained.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Nov 20, 2014 9:10:29 GMT -5
Here's what Bowman said from the link: That fear, Bowman explains, was exploited by her assaulter. "[Bill Cosby] is a very, very scary man and very using of mind manipulation," she said. "He really zeroed in on my insecurities and my vulnerabilities as a young woman." And, that is different than men saying "I love you" or telling you whatever BS they tell you to get you into bed? If he drugged her or forced himself on her, it's rape. One thing I don't quite understand is that she appears to be alleging more than one instance of rape. Hence the circumstances would have to be that she was raped, returned to working with Mr. Cosby in their common workplace, visited his apartment a second time, and was raped again...? If that's the case, I'm sorry but it's just plain stupid. I don't care how much you cry "mind control". I get the impression I'm missing something.You are Virgil, as do I for the most part. People who have self confidence and the absolute knowledge that they have worth and are loved will never be able to understand the self doubt and desire to be liked that will drive people back to their abusers. I had a friend that stayed in an abusive relationship for far too long. If I had not witnessed, and tried to support her through, the crap I would never even BEGIN to understand the mindset of someone who keeps going back for more. Years later I still don't get it, but I can acknowledge that it happens although I would never tolerate it myself.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2014 9:42:53 GMT -5
What evidence is there that he " drugged" them? The statements of 16 witnesses.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 20, 2014 10:05:58 GMT -5
If he drugged her or forced himself on her, it's rape. One thing I don't quite understand is that she appears to be alleging more than one instance of rape. Hence the circumstances would have to be that she was raped, returned to working with Mr. Cosby in their common workplace, visited his apartment a second time, and was raped again...? If that's the case, I'm sorry but it's just plain stupid. I don't care how much you cry "mind control". I get the impression I'm missing something.You are Virgil, as do I for the most part. People who have self confidence and the absolute knowledge that they have worth and are loved will never be able to understand the self doubt and desire to be liked that will drive people back to their abusers. I had a friend that stayed in an abusive relationship for far too long. If I had not witnessed, and tried to support her through, the crap I would never even BEGIN to understand the mindset of someone who keeps going back for more. Years later I still don't get it, but I can acknowledge that it happens although I would never tolerate it myself. I've recently argued why we mustn't conclude a life sentence in a hellish prison is more humane than execution simply because most people would choose the life sentence. It would be shortsighted of me to deny the same phenomenon with respect to abuse victims. People are terrified by the unknown. I'll just never understand it. If it turns out that Mr. Cosby is guilty, I give up on Hollywood. In my halcyon days of youth, I used to think "It stinks a little, but you know, there's... Will Smith, and Kelsey Grammer, and Bill Cosby. They're all good comedy men with solid family values." And then later it was: "Well it is kind of a cesspit, but let's not forget Kelsey Grammer, and certainly Bill Cosby..." Then it was: "It can't be a complete cesspit. I mean, look at... um... Bill Cosby! Yes, look at Bill Cosby. He made it through OK. He's got values." If these allegations have teeth, then I give up. Nothing good or commendable ever comes out of that money pit.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 20, 2014 10:20:33 GMT -5
You are Virgil, as do I for the most part. People who have self confidence and the absolute knowledge that they have worth and are loved will never be able to understand the self doubt and desire to be liked that will drive people back to their abusers. I had a friend that stayed in an abusive relationship for far too long. If I had not witnessed, and tried to support her through, the crap I would never even BEGIN to understand the mindset of someone who keeps going back for more. Years later I still don't get it, but I can acknowledge that it happens although I would never tolerate it myself. I've recently argued why we mustn't conclude a life sentence in a hellish prison is more humane than execution simply because most people would choose the life sentence. It would be shortsighted of me to deny the same phenomenon with respect to abuse victims. People are terrified by the unknown. I'll just never understand it. If it turns out that Mr. Cosby is guilty, I give up on Hollywood. In my halcyon days of youth, I used to think "It stinks a little, but you know, there's... Will Smith, and Kelsey Grammer, and Bill Cosby. They're all good comedy men with solid family values." And then later it was: "Well it is kind of a cesspit, but let's not forget Kelsey Grammer, and certainly Bill Cosby..." Then it was: "It can't be a complete cesspit. I mean, look at... um... Bill Cosby! Yes, look at Bill Cosby. He made it through OK. He's got values." If these allegations have teeth, then I give up. Nothing good or commendable ever comes out of that money pit. Why would you think anyone who has made it big, where it requires ruthless behavior to get there, is a nice guy?
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Nov 20, 2014 10:33:28 GMT -5
Tom Hanks, Billy Crystal, Jeff Foxworthy, Ron Howard, Robin Williams, Bono, Peter Gabriel,
Oprah, Ellen, Lady Gaga to name a few. Alton Brown - (we've actually met him) and I'd add Mike Rowe to the list but I'm not sure if he's famous enough for you to consider making it big.
You can be successful and still not be an ass.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 20, 2014 10:35:18 GMT -5
Tom Hanks, Billy Crystal, Jeff Foxworthy, Ron Howard, Robin Williams, Bono, Peter Gabriel, Oprah, Ellen, Lady Gaga to name a few. Alton Brown - (we've actually met him) and I'd add Mike Rowe to the list but I'm not sure if he's famous enough for you to consider making it big. You can be successful and still not be an ass. You don't have to be an ass, but it seems like there are more than there aren't.
One of my friends used to do real estate in Lake Placid. She said John Mellencamp is a doll. Shania Twain is rude. Brooke Shields is also very nice, but not very smart.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Nov 20, 2014 10:40:57 GMT -5
swamp I agree that it seems like more are asses than not, just pointing out the possibility that someone can still be successful AND nice does exist. Cause you stated (emphasis mine):
Why would you think anyone who has made it big, where it requires ruthless behavior to get there, is a nice guy?
Dolly Parton is an absolute peach if we are adding to the list.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Nov 20, 2014 10:54:22 GMT -5
The black man strayed off of the white liberal plantation. Sooo he must be destroyed and Clarence Thomased or Herman Cained. This type of comment is so odd. Black women accusing black men of rape. It takes a very weird thought process to make this into a race issue and liberal issue when it is neither.
Are some conservatives pro black men raping black women?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 20, 2014 14:34:46 GMT -5
Tom Hanks, Billy Crystal, Jeff Foxworthy, Ron Howard, Robin Williams, Bono, Peter Gabriel, Oprah, Ellen, Lady Gaga to name a few. Alton Brown - (we've actually met him) and I'd add Mike Rowe to the list but I'm not sure if he's famous enough for you to consider making it big. You can be successful and still not be an ass. I'm not so much considering stars who are "nice". Kindness and courtesy are admirable virtues, but they're not sufficient on their own. I'm looking for stars with solid, upright conduct who even partway share my system of values. No drunkenness or adultery or fits of rage or tax fraud or marital dysfunction or criminal misconduct. A willingness to stand up for values and moral principles that I consider important, despite the prevailing views in society. I've always considered Mr. Cosby one such man. His humour is funny without being profane, cynical, or dirty. He has a solid record of charitable works. Until these allegations, I hadn't suspected him of criminal misconduct. If it turns out all of that is just another myth, my last shred of faith in Hollywood dies with his reputation.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 20, 2014 14:40:12 GMT -5
Tom Hanks, Billy Crystal, Jeff Foxworthy, Ron Howard, Robin Williams, Bono, Peter Gabriel, Oprah, Ellen, Lady Gaga to name a few. Alton Brown - (we've actually met him) and I'd add Mike Rowe to the list but I'm not sure if he's famous enough for you to consider making it big. You can be successful and still not be an ass. I'm not so much considering stars who are "nice". Kindness and courtesy are admirable virtues, but they're not sufficient on their own. I'm looking for stars with solid, upright conduct who even partway share my system of values. No drunkenness or adultery or fits of rage or tax fraud or marital dysfunction or criminal misconduct. A willingness to stand up for values and moral principles that I consider important, despite the prevailing views in society. I've always considered Mr. Cosby one such man. His humour is funny without being profane, cynical, or dirty. He has a solid record of charitable works. Until these allegations, I hadn't suspected him of criminal misconduct. If it turns out all of that is just another myth, my last shred of faith in Hollywood dies with his reputation. Hollywood is no different than anywhere else. their are saints, there are sinners. they are all goodbad, just like the rest of us.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 20, 2014 15:16:39 GMT -5
I'm not so much considering stars who are "nice". Kindness and courtesy are admirable virtues, but they're not sufficient on their own. I'm looking for stars with solid, upright conduct who even partway share my system of values. No drunkenness or adultery or fits of rage or tax fraud or marital dysfunction or criminal misconduct. A willingness to stand up for values and moral principles that I consider important, despite the prevailing views in society. I've always considered Mr. Cosby one such man. His humour is funny without being profane, cynical, or dirty. He has a solid record of charitable works. Until these allegations, I hadn't suspected him of criminal misconduct. If it turns out all of that is just another myth, my last shred of faith in Hollywood dies with his reputation. Hollywood is no different than anywhere else. their are saints, there are sinners. they are all goodbad, just like the rest of us. Well I'd appreciate it if you could find me a Hollywood star who hasn't engaged in any of the vices or scandals listed, who's a steadfast proponent of the traditional family and Christian values, whose charitable works reflect his/her earnest character, and whose films, music, works, etc. abstain from glorifying immorality (as defined not even five minutes ago in CE). Then I'll cling to them like a drowning man to a life preserver.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2014 15:18:14 GMT -5
Ya know, I'm not completely secure saying no to that...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2014 15:20:44 GMT -5
That's a pretty tall order.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 20, 2014 15:23:04 GMT -5
That's a pretty tall order.
Until last week I thought Mr. Cosby filled it. Now I'm not so sure.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Nov 20, 2014 15:24:24 GMT -5
Virgil Showlion, Mr Cosby is looked upon (due to his TV persona) as the ideal family man pediatrician that he portrayed on "The Cosby Show" - with the perfect Hallmark family, as he doled out large doses of family values sprinkled with humor and love.
That show was his TV "Character" - and that's how most people view the man. Bill Cosby the person isn't the same person as squeaky-clean Dr. Huxtable.
Janice Dickinson appears to be (from watching interviews), a highly emotional woman - whether she's over-dramatizing for TV appearances is irrelevant. She's obviously been traumatized.
And with the number of women besides her who've come forward, there has to be some meat to the allegations. I'm not one to give him a free pass because of his TV reputation.
I won't pass full judgment on him - yet - but I also don't think we've heard from all the women he may or may not have drugged or raped yet. Some may be unwilling to come forward publicly and have to relive their nightmare.
For now, the claims are still under investigation, but I have my opinions.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Nov 20, 2014 15:30:44 GMT -5
Oprah Winfrey, Ellen DeGeneres, George Clooney, Helen Hunt, Minnie Driver, Robert Redford, Paul Newman, Shemar Moore.... and many more that I could probably fill a page with.
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Post by Opti on Nov 20, 2014 15:34:55 GMT -5
Oprah Winfrey, Ellen DeGeneres, George Clooney, Helen Hunt, Minnie Driver, Robert Redford, Paul Newman, Shemar Moore.... and many more that I could probably fill a page with. I think most of them fail Virgil's Christian values bar. He's looking for someone like Kirk Cameron which may not fit the bill either.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Nov 20, 2014 15:39:57 GMT -5
Mel Gibson is a hard core Christian and a Hollywood powerhouse.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2014 15:41:40 GMT -5
That's a pretty tall order.
Until last week I thought Mr. Cosby filled it. Now I'm not so sure. Silly question, but why would you need to cling to any entertainer as a life preserver? They're only job is to entertain you. I can see putting those standards to the vehicles they preform in or the shows they put on. But why would you need them to be so proper in their personal life?
ETA: This in no way negates the necessity of prosecuting criminals. It doesn't matter what a criminals job is.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 20, 2014 15:59:20 GMT -5
Hollywood is no different than anywhere else. their are saints, there are sinners. they are all goodbad, just like the rest of us. Well I'd appreciate it if you could find me a Hollywood star who hasn't engaged in any of the vices or scandals listed, who's a steadfast proponent of the traditional family and Christian values, whose charitable works reflect his/her earnest character, and whose films, music, works, etc. abstain from glorifying immorality (as defined not even five minutes ago in CE). Then I'll cling to them like a drowning man to a life preserver. i don't know why you should, but i think that Denzel Washington has a reputation for being a good upstanding Christian.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 20, 2014 16:04:32 GMT -5
Until last week I thought Mr. Cosby filled it. Now I'm not so sure. Silly question, but why would you need to cling to any entertainer as a life preserver? They're only job is to entertain you. I can see putting those standards to the vehicles they preform in or the shows they put on. But why would you need them to be so proper in their personal life?
ETA: This in no way negates the necessity of prosecuting criminals. It doesn't matter what a criminals job is.
"Cling to a life preserver" pertaining to preserving my faith that I might still be able to say to somebody, "Do you know X, the celebrity? Emulate him/her." Celebrities who almost fit the bill, but not fully, needn't apply. Indeed you're right that celebrities owe me nothing. It would just be a wonderful positive thing for me if there was such a person in that sphere.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 20, 2014 16:05:12 GMT -5
Well I'd appreciate it if you could find me a Hollywood star who hasn't engaged in any of the vices or scandals listed, who's a steadfast proponent of the traditional family and Christian values, whose charitable works reflect his/her earnest character, and whose films, music, works, etc. abstain from glorifying immorality (as defined not even five minutes ago in CE). Then I'll cling to them like a drowning man to a life preserver. i don't know why you should, but i think that Denzel Washington has a reputation for being a good upstanding Christian. Then I'll check him out and if he holds up, he shall be my new Bill Cosby.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2014 19:30:57 GMT -5
Why is "Christian" in the list of "required good" qualities?
One can be perfectly good without being Christian.
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Nov 20, 2014 19:35:18 GMT -5
Mel Gibson is a hard core Christian and a Hollywood powerhouse. Knowing you, I'm sure that was 100% sarcasm on your part.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 20, 2014 19:46:38 GMT -5
Why is "Christian" in the list of "required good" qualities? One can be perfectly good without being Christian. Due reverence for God and Jesus Christ are of exceptional importance to me, as with the other attributes I listed. If my list doesn't suit you, make up your own.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2014 21:18:39 GMT -5
Why is "Christian" in the list of "required good" qualities? One can be perfectly good without being Christian. Due reverence for God and Jesus Christ are of exceptional importance to me, as with the other attributes I listed. If my list doesn't suit you, make up your own. Oh, I like your list just fine... except the unnecessary "Christian" entry. Take that one out and call the remainder "my list" if you like.
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 20, 2014 22:09:49 GMT -5
Robin Williams cheated on his first wife with the nanny. Tom Hanks is not a saint and his son has been in and out of more pricey rehab centers than you can imagine. It's just hushed up. Very few people have saintly lives.
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