Woman Harrassed Simply By Walking in New York

[hoops902]

Oct 30, 2014 16:34:51 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Oct 30, 2014 16:30:12 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

I still think the makers of the video specifically chose that particular street/neighborhod to do the filming.

It's not the most ideal location in NY, and is most likely known for having people (mostly men) hanging out on the street corners/outside buildings or cruising up & down the sidewalk.

Do you think the result would have been the same if she'd been walking down Park Avenue or in SoHo? or Lenox Hill?

I seriously doubt it.

Why does it matter what street she was walking on?

It matters for 2 reasons:

1)  Essentially, they're trying to make big sweeping statements.  You can't do that if you pick variables for your "experiment" which are likely to return the results you wanted but which ignore a massive portion of the variable's population.  It matters because this is their experiment that they're trying to use to make broader assumptions.

2)  Neighborhood "personality" matters.  If the personality of this neighborhood is that everyone is yelling out to everyone else on the street, and she just happens to be another of the massive numbers of people who get yelled out to, that's a lot different than if she's walking down a street and completely out of every social norm in that group she gets catcalled.  There are plenty of neighborhoods where guys yell at girls and girls yell at guys to come talk to them, to hit on them, or to do whatever.

The same kind of thing goes anytime they do social experiments...someone has a broken down car and is asking for help, who helps them?  It's going to be different on a highway, in a small town in mid day, in a big city known for crime in the area.  They want to do this social experiment in isolation, in one part of one city, and without any background as to how anyone else in that area acts or is treated.  If this is the social norm in this area, and it's not illegal, then I don't see the big deal.  If you go to Kansas and bitch about how you hate all the cornfields its' not on the citizens to clear out the cornfields so that you are happy.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Why does it matter what street she was walking on?

I think it matters because it seems they scouted-out and chose that street to make their video - for a more dramatic result. Perhaps that neighborhood is notorious for men hanging around outside and bothering people as they walk by (more specifically, women).

This type of thing isn't rampant throughout NY City - or any other city. I think every large metropolis has at least 1 district that's considered less than ideal to walk through.

[Tennesseer]

Oct 30, 2014 16:45:51 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

Why does it matter what street she was walking on?

I think it matters because it seems they scouted-out and chose that street to make their video - for a more dramatic result. Perhaps that neighborhood is notorious for men hanging around outside and bothering people as they walk by (more specifically, women).

This type of thing isn't rampant throughout NY City - or any other city. I think every large metropolis has at least 1 district that's considered less than ideal to walk through.

And hoops902




Creepy behavior is still creepy behavior no matter who does it or where it happens. Should women just not live and work in low-life areas?

[hoops902]

Just because you categorize it as creepy doesn't make it so.  The culture of the area matters.  I think people running around in loin clothes is creepy, i bet a lot of other countries don't.  I think women walking around in sweatpants that say "juicy" on them is creepy, clearly a lot of people don't.  I think guys walking around barefoot with no shirt and only some overalls is creepy, clearly some places don't. 

If you don't like the culture of an area, don't go there.  There's a difference between doing things which are illegal, and doing things which are annoying to you personally.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Oh, I totally agree that men (or women) shouldn't act like pigs or treat people like meat - but you don't see it happening as a regular occurrence - at least not like at this particular place where it seemed every second man she walked by had some sleazy comment to make to her.




.

[zibazinski]

She was most assuredly not dressed like some streetwalker looking for a customer. 

[Tennesseer]

Oct 30, 2014 16:58:20 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Just because you categorize it as creepy doesn't make it so.  The culture of the area matters.  I think people running around in loin clothes is creepy, i bet a lot of other countries don't.  I think women walking around in sweatpants that say "juicy" on them is creepy, clearly a lot of people don't.  I think guys walking around barefoot with no shirt and only some overalls is creepy, clearly some places don't. 

If you don't like the culture of an area, don't go there.  There's a difference between doing things which are illegal, and doing things which are annoying to you personally.

I will confess I have not watched the video, but I know what it is about as this issue has been around for years.  

I am not going to start reading all the threads again but I do not believe anyone has said what these guys are doing is illegal.  What the posters are saying is that what these men are doing is personally annoying to them and they do not want or care for the attention.

As for your not liking the culture, don't go there statement-these are probably neighborhoods where people live and work. Sometimes you simply have to walk down a street to get where you need to go.  Easy to say move away to a better neighborhood but that is not always possible, especially in big cities. Culture is no excuse for bad behavior.  Most of these guys would probably sucker punch another guy if they caught the guy making other unwelcomed comments to their mother, sister or daughter. 

[Tennesseer]

Oct 30, 2014 17:01:04 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

Oh, I totally agree that men (or women) shouldn't act like pigs or treat people like meat - but you don't see it happening as a regular occurrence - at least not like at this particular place where it seemed every second man she walked by had some sleazy comment to make to her.




.

I don't for a minute believe that the video is one long, filming take lasting ten or however minutes. It is a number of scenes edited together to fit the ten-minute format. I think most viewers of the video understand that. But it does happen in real life. It just does not happen every yard or so someone walks down a street.

[billisonboard]

Oct 30, 2014 17:12:59 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Oct 30, 2014 16:58:20 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

... The culture of the area matters. ...

...

... a better neighborhood... ...Culture is no excuse for bad behavior. ...

Culture defines what is both "better" and "bad".

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

I don't for a minute believe that the video is one long, filming take lasting ten or however minutes. It is a number of scenes edited together to fit the ten-minute format. I think most viewers of the video understand that. But it does happen in real life. It just does not happen every yard or so someone walks down a street.

The video in the OP link is only (approx) 2 min duration. It shows that each occurrence of someone saying something to her, was on a different section of the street (and even in an alleyway). And yes, you can tell it's been edited/spliced.


The one I saw in full length (10 min) was on TV yesterday - and she strolled by several people or groups of people, or passed them on the sidewalk without anyone giving her a second glance. In Shooby's link, they're only showing the instances where someone actually DID say something to her or follow after her.

The woman also supposedly walked around filming for 10 hrs. The editors chose which parts of the video to use in the final product.

It's very misleading - probably for effect and to get a reaction.

[Ryan]

I'm not surprised...she was hot! What does she expect walking around a sketchy neighborhood . Can't do that with boobs that size!

[Deleted]

I saw about 2 minutes of the video on Inside Edition or the News or some show of that nature (I forget which specific one)... and it seemed to me that it was spliced to show the worst parts filmed... for effect.

Problem is... in those "worst parts", there was actually no harassment.

Harassment: Noun- Aggressive pressure or intimidation (source - OED)

"Hey sexy" isn't intimidation or pressure. "Good morning" isn't intimidation or pressure. A so-called "wolf-whistle" isn't intimidation or pressure.

Could it be "unwanted attention"? Certainly. But it's NOT "harassment".

[justme]

10 hours, 100 incidents. So ten an hour or one every six minutes. That doesn't seem that unbelievable to me. I've been shopping before and had several males come up to me or tell me in passing to smile. And yes, a male telling a female stranger to smile is offensive.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Nor were there ANY threats of rape, @richardintn.

A couple of guys said good morning or god bless you.

One guy said "God Bless Miami". That's not really harassment either. Nobody touched her, or made any threatening comments.

Some people who've commented here, had best avoid walking by any high-rise construction sites. Those guys high up on the girders are well-known for calling out or doing wolf-whistles.

Meh - you just keep walking.

Oct 30, 2014 19:03:36 GMT -5 justme said:

10 hours, 100 incidents. So ten an hour or one every six minutes. That doesn't seem that unbelievable to me. I've been shopping before and had several males come up to me or tell me in passing to smile. And yes, a male telling a female stranger to smile is offensive.

100 Incidents of what exactly, though?? Not 100 incidents of harassment OR threats.

Possibly a fraction of times where someone said something that might be considered improper, but the small snippet of video in the OP only shows maybe 1/2 dozen comments - and those weren't really harassment or sexual OR threatening.

The majority of these 100 so-called "incidents" were probably just someone daring to have the nerve to smile at her - or turn around to watch her as she walked away - or saying "Good Morning" or "God Bless You".

The only instance I found to be uncomfortable or harassing, was the one guy who continued to walk closely behind her trying to get her attention.

[billisonboard]

How could men see this person as just a hot girl, or should it be "Hot Girl"?  shoshanabroberts.wix.com/shoshanabroberts#!current-projects/c1k5a

[justme]

Oct 30, 2014 19:07:03 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

Nor were there ANY threats of rape, @richardintn.

A couple of guys said good morning or god bless you.

One guy said "God Bless Miami". That's not really harassment either. Nobody touched her, or made any threatening comments.

Some people who've commented here, had best avoid walking by any high-rise construction sites. Those guys high up on the girders are well-known for calling out or doing wolf-whistles.

Meh - you just keep walking.

Oct 30, 2014 19:03:36 GMT -5 justme said:

10 hours, 100 incidents. So ten an hour or one every six minutes. That doesn't seem that unbelievable to me. I've been shopping before and had several males come up to me or tell me in passing to smile. And yes, a male telling a female stranger to smile is offensive.

100 Incidents of what exactly, though?? Not 100 incidents of harassment OR threats.

Possibly a fraction of times where someone said something that might be considered improper, but the small snippet of video in the OP only shows maybe 1/2 dozen comments - and those weren't really harassment or sexual OR threatening.

The majority of these 100 so-called "incidents" were probably just someone daring to have the nerve to smile at her - or turn around to watch her as she walked away - or saying "Good Morning" or "God Bless You".

The only instance I found to be uncomfortable or harassing, was the one guy who continued to walk closely behind her trying to get her attention.

Well if you don't find strange men commenting on your body uncomfortable and intimidating then I don't know what to tell you besides I think a fair numbers of females do not agree with you.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Where in the video did anyone comment on her body?

No, I don't approve of inappropriate comments from strangers, but they're only showing a mere fraction of what she'd filmed over a 10 hr period.

I'd like to view the full 10 hrs that was filmed to see just what percentage they took out of it to make this claims of unwanted attention or harassment video. I'm betting at least 90% of the video (or more) was scrapped and ended up on the editing floor, and they only kept what they thought would get a reaction or comment when posted online.

It's very obvious it's been spliced & diced and only a small portion (2 measly minutes out of 10 hrs) made it into this posted video.

[zibazinski]

   I find it amazing but perhaps I shouldnt, that some posters think it's okay to do this shit to another person.

[zibazinski]

Sorry, that was for IT WILL WORK OUT.

[justme]

If you don't think a strange man saying one word like nice or damn and calling you by the brand of jeans you're wearing aren't commenting on your body well...

And that was like the first fifteen seconds.

[zibazinski]

Well, don't you know, she was ASKING for it walking in a sketchy neighborhood by herself.  What a slut, right? She should be GRATEFUL that some men even paid attention to her, right? What a sad state that there are actually men and women who think no harm, no foul.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

I'm not condoning the mens' behavior. They clearly weren't taught manners or respect.

Some comments (as I said previously) are unacceptable as was the guy tailing after her - but she wasn't threatened with rape (as someone claimed), or sexually harassed - in the technical sense.

The making of the video is an obvious set-up. They chose to use a woman who is good looking, with a nice figure and wearing a tight shirt & slacks. They also chose a location/street that seems to have a lot of closed businesses and is a bit run-down.

What do you think the result would have been if they'd chosen the same woman to wear business clothing, or a coat/jacket, or baggy clothing/sweats with her hair tied-back, and no make-up? Or used a female who had "a few extra pounds"? Or filmed in a different part of the City?

Do you believe the end result of this "test" would be the same?

I live in a large City (over 1 million). Having someone turn around to glance at you in passing or saying hi or good morning, isn't all that unusual.

As I've stated previously, they seemed to specifically choose an area of NY that they thought they could make a more controversial video in.

There's a small older burg in my City that has a "reputation", and no doubt if they did the filming there, the results would be the same.

But if they moved the location a few blocks west into the main downtown area here, where it's more cosmopolitan, the results would be extremely different.

[justme]

I've been cat called in a coat, no make up, walking down a safe street, a flowy skirt that goes to the ground, my crappy work clothes, when I was barely a 32A and a twig. It's not appropriate period and until everyone stops putting qualifiers on it it will continue to happen everywhere.

[mmhmm]

Oookay, the older'n dirt one is gonna sound off. This has been going on since I can remember. It happened to me all those years ago and it's still happening. It's not going to stop happening because we complain about it. Do we ask for it? In most cases, absolutely NOT! Does that matter? You tell me. It never has mattered in my experience. I got it anyway. I ignored it - pointedly. If the person making an arse of him/herself (yes, there were women, too) was close enough, they got a look that let them know they were the equivalent of a worm in my eyes. I kept walking. That person didn't lower me. That person lowered him/herself.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Oct 30, 2014 21:03:24 GMT -5 justme said:

I've been cat called in a coat, no make up, walking down a safe street, a flowy skirt that goes to the ground, my crappy work clothes, when I was barely a 32A and a twig. It's not appropriate period and until everyone stops putting qualifiers on it it will continue to happen everywhere.

I believe I've already said it's inappropriate behavior at any time a couple of times, in my posts 47 and 52, and I certainly don't condone or accept it.

I also said the video is obviously "doctored" (edited/spliced out) to only show a minuscule portion of the 10 hrs that was actually filmed (only 2 min were used from that 10 hrs) to create reactions such as yours.

It's called sensationalism - and what better place to air it but the web? We're already at page 2 just on this site.

ETA: Thanks, mmhmm - I think we're both on the same wavelength here.

[justme]

Oct 30, 2014 21:17:05 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

Oct 30, 2014 21:03:24 GMT -5 justme said:

I've been cat called in a coat, no make up, walking down a safe street, a flowy skirt that goes to the ground, my crappy work clothes, when I was barely a 32A and a twig. It's not appropriate period and until everyone stops putting qualifiers on it it will continue to happen everywhere.

I believe I've already said it's inappropriate behavior at any time a couple of times, in my posts 47 and 52, and I certainly don't condone or accept it.

I also said the video is obviously "doctored" (edited/spliced out) to only show a minuscule portion of the 10 hrs that was actually filmed (only 2 min were used from that 10 hrs) to create reactions such as yours.

It's called sensationalism - and what better place to air it but the web? We're already at page 2 just on this site.

ETA: Thanks, mmhmm - I think we're both on the same wavelength here.

I'd believe you more if you didn't comment about her tight shirt and tight pants and walking down a "bad" street.

[Pants]

Oct 30, 2014 20:59:12 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

I'm not condoning the mens' behavior. They clearly weren't taught manners or respect.

Some comments (as I said previously) are unacceptable as was the guy tailing after her - but she wasn't threatened with rape (as someone claimed), or sexually harassed - in the technical sense.

The making of the video is an obvious set-up. They chose to use a woman who is good looking, with a nice figure and wearing a tight shirt & slacks. They also chose a location/street that seems to have a lot of closed businesses and is a bit run-down.

What do you think the result would have been if they'd chosen the same woman to wear business clothing, or a coat/jacket, or baggy clothing/sweats with her hair tied-back, and no make-up? Or used a female who had "a few extra pounds"? Or filmed in a different part of the City?

Do you believe the end result of this "test" would be the same?

I live in a large City (over 1 million). Having someone turn around to glance at you in passing or saying hi or good morning, isn't all that unusual.

As I've stated previously, they seemed to specifically choose an area of NY that they thought they could make a more controversial video in.

There's a small older burg in my City that has a "reputation", and no doubt if they did the filming there, the results would be the same.

But if they moved the location a few blocks west into the main downtown area here, where it's more cosmopolitan, the results would be extremely different.

SL, as has been previously stated, the rape threats were responses to the video. Internet comments. Not during the video.

[Green Eyed Lady]

I don't think anybody "condones" it. I certainly don't. It also depends on the remarks made. A "good morning" is not offensive to me and I don't get the "how dare you speak to me" feeling. I just don't. However, if it's a "great t**s" remark, it's just not a gentlemanly thing to do and I don't like it.  I'm not going to die from it.  I ignore it and go about my business. There are mountains in this life and there are molehills. To me, this is a molehill.

The guy following her for 5 minutes is a different story. I just don't think you can lump all these examples into one video and decide bad or good. Some of it is no big deal. Some of it sucks.  Obviously, a woman should be able to walk down the street in peace.  It's not that kind of world and you can decide how you react, knowing that getting a reaction is mostly the whole point of those doing it.  Give it to them or don't.  Up to you.

ETA: I want to punch people who tell me to "smile". If I felt like smiling, I would be doing it.  Shut...up.  Still?  A molehill, but a slightly more irritating one.

[Pants]

Street harassment is a systematic way of.Putting women in their place and ensuring that we know that men have a right to our bodies. For the.most part, men move through the world without people commenting on them simply because they exist. This is not true for women, and specifically not true for young and pretty women. They are told as they move through the world that others have a right to comment on them. They are not safe to simply occupy space in public.Because they are somehow lesser. Because they are objects. If you don't see how this gets old really, really fast, then I don't know what to tell you.

When I was younger and living in the city, leaving my house in the.morning meant mentally.preparing myself for this bullshit. Would today be uneventful, or would.I have some asshole yelling at me and making my heart beat faster and speeding up my walk to the train. Would the yelling be innocuous in the end, or would I be followed and put in actual danger. If you don't think that's harassment, I can't help you. It makes women afraid.


One of the best things I ever did was get old, because now for the most part I've entered into being invisible. It's much safer here.

[Deleted]

Oct 30, 2014 21:03:24 GMT -5 justme said:

I've been cat called in a coat, no make up, walking down a safe street, a flowy skirt that goes to the ground, my crappy work clothes, when I was barely a 32A and a twig. It's not appropriate period and until everyone stops putting qualifiers on it it will continue to happen everywhere.

Define "cat called".