Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Oct 30, 2014 8:17:57 GMT -5
I guess you haven't heard the argument that if churches refuse to perform ceremonies for same-sex couples, they should have their tax-exempt status revoked for being political and bigoted. Churches refuse to marry people for a variety or reasons, but when it comes to a "protected class," it seems that the rules and rights of people to refuse service changes pretty frequently... Nope- I have not heard that argument and anyone thinking of making it doesn't understand the issue.
Churches do not have to do anything- they do not even have to marry people of different faiths if they do not want to- and why should they- they are a freaking church. It is their rules.
But on the other hand if you are a business or even a government clerk- you do not get to deny certain people what they are legally obligated to provide without consequences.
There is a NC politician calling for government employees to deny issuing marriage licenses based on their personal religious beliefs- well, sorry- you get to be fired. If we start allowing people to refuse to do their jobs over bullshit like this the next thing you know is that Pizza Hut is forced to hire drivers that refuse to deliver a meat lovers pizza on Friday during Lent- or worse one that has pork on it at all. The stupidity has to end. Either bake the cake or quit being a bakery, issue the license or find a new line of work. One could make the same argument about drawing a line for people to use whatever restroom fits his or her anatomy...and after surgery, do the same.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 30, 2014 8:39:30 GMT -5
impossible to say. and given that fact, i think it is more reasonable to ask whether he would side with the anti-gay crowd on principle. On what principle? forgiveness, of course.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 8:43:29 GMT -5
Church? Or for-profit wedding chapel? .... The particular conversation was over churches and many stating a refusal to marry same-sex couples. The people I was having the conversation with basically felt churches should has tax exempt status taken away from refusing to do so...my basic response was that churches can and do refuse to marry people for a variety of reasons, why should this be any different? Oh, personal opinion. People can think whatever they like. When it becomes an actual subject under government consideration, then we can argue it...
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 30, 2014 8:46:17 GMT -5
Church? Or for-profit wedding chapel? .... The particular conversation was over churches and many stating a refusal to marry same-sex couples. The people I was having the conversation with basically felt churches should has tax exempt status taken away from refusing to do so...my basic response was that churches can and do refuse to marry people for a variety of reasons, why should this be any different? Who, here, has said churches should lose their tax-exempt status for refusing to marry same-sex couples? I don't think I've read anyone saying that. Church leadership should be able to make that decision, just as they do now. Some will choose to marry these couples and some won't, just as they do now. Personally, I don't think churches should have tax-exempt status; however, nobody has said (to my knowledge) that status should be changed because a given church won't perform a wedding ceremony for a gay couple.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 18:26:44 GMT -5
I agree with mmhmm, I also believe that all churches should lose their tax exempt status. BUT It shouldn't have anything to do with whom they marry or don't marry... It should be because there's no justification for them to be tax exempt in the first place.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Oct 30, 2014 18:41:47 GMT -5
Remember this... for when one attacks a gay/bi person, a transgender person, or someone born a hermaphrodite, you are attacking someone's child, a brother or sister, a mom or dad, or someone's best friend. So why does one feel the need to attack an innocent individual that only wants to love and be loved. Remember this... Would you like it if someone attacked you or your loved ones? Just remember, we are all born different, and that is what makes the world a rainbow of beautiful people filled with love. Man attacks passenger in pink shirt during homophobic rant at Dallas airportThe unidentified man — who appeared drunk — taunted the passenger, who began recording the incident with his phone. When a third passenger confronted the yelling man, he again turned his attention to the man in the pink shirt, attacking him before being subdued by others in the waiting area. Man attacks passenger in pink shirt during homophobic rant at Dallas airport Now identified as an asshat from Tennessee- and the town isn't happy. Seems he is a known douchebag.
Benham told police he had "100 drinks" prior to the attack.
Some Shelbyville residents said the incident gives the town a black eye.
"A slap in our face," said Janice Blackwell Boswell of Shelbyville. "Puts us down like we are a country hick town, which we are not."
Benham is also involved in the walking horse industry and has had a history of issues there.
Records from the federal government show Benham has been accused twice in the past of soring walking horses.
One incident, in 2011, caused him to be suspended from horse shows for six months. A second soring offense in 2012 accused him of using illegal chemicals to sore a different horse.
Read more: www.fox5vegas.com/story/27158387/man-in-dallas-airport-attack-from-shelbyville#ixzz3HftenRRF
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 30, 2014 19:31:35 GMT -5
Man attacks passenger in pink shirt during homophobic rant at Dallas airportThe unidentified man — who appeared drunk — taunted the passenger, who began recording the incident with his phone. When a third passenger confronted the yelling man, he again turned his attention to the man in the pink shirt, attacking him before being subdued by others in the waiting area. Man attacks passenger in pink shirt during homophobic rant at Dallas airport Now identified as an asshat from Tennessee- and the town isn't happy. Seems he is a known douchebag.
Benham told police he had "100 drinks" prior to the attack.
Some Shelbyville residents said the incident gives the town a black eye.
"A slap in our face," said Janice Blackwell Boswell of Shelbyville. "Puts us down like we are a country hick town, which we are not."
Benham is also involved in the walking horse industry and has had a history of issues there.
Records from the federal government show Benham has been accused twice in the past of soring walking horses.
One incident, in 2011, caused him to be suspended from horse shows for six months. A second soring offense in 2012 accused him of using illegal chemicals to sore a different horse.
Read more: www.fox5vegas.com/story/27158387/man-in-dallas-airport-attack-from-shelbyville#ixzz3HftenRRF
Not the town's fault an asshat lives there. Soring?
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Politically_Incorrect12
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With a little faith, we can move a mountain; with a little help, we can change the world.
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Oct 31, 2014 9:28:21 GMT -5
I'm not sure I'm following...what does a person saying he or she disagrees with gay marriage because of his or her religious belief have to do with forgiveness.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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With a little faith, we can move a mountain; with a little help, we can change the world.
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Oct 31, 2014 9:33:46 GMT -5
The particular conversation was over churches and many stating a refusal to marry same-sex couples. The people I was having the conversation with basically felt churches should has tax exempt status taken away from refusing to do so...my basic response was that churches can and do refuse to marry people for a variety of reasons, why should this be any different? Who, here, has said churches should lose their tax-exempt status for refusing to marry same-sex couples? I don't think I've read anyone saying that. Church leadership should be able to make that decision, just as they do now. Some will choose to marry these couples and some won't, just as they do now. Personally, I don't think churches should have tax-exempt status; however, nobody has said (to my knowledge) that status should be changed because a given church won't perform a wedding ceremony for a gay couple. Which was pretty much my argument, but it's not the only time I've heard the arguement mentioned. They discussion was over where do people get the idea that churches could be forced to perform gay marriage, I was pointing out that the thought is out there.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 31, 2014 9:35:42 GMT -5
Who, here, has said churches should lose their tax-exempt status for refusing to marry same-sex couples? I don't think I've read anyone saying that. Church leadership should be able to make that decision, just as they do now. Some will choose to marry these couples and some won't, just as they do now. Personally, I don't think churches should have tax-exempt status; however, nobody has said (to my knowledge) that status should be changed because a given church won't perform a wedding ceremony for a gay couple. Which was pretty much my argument, but it's not the only time I've heard the arguement mentioned. They discussion was over where do people get the idea that churches could be forced to perform gay marriage, I was pointing out that the thought is out there. There are a lot of thoughts "out there". There are people out there who believe all sorts of things. This is certainly not something I'd worry about. That's what I'm saying.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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With a little faith, we can move a mountain; with a little help, we can change the world.
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Oct 31, 2014 9:43:19 GMT -5
Which was pretty much my argument, but it's not the only time I've heard the arguement mentioned. They discussion was over where do people get the idea that churches could be forced to perform gay marriage, I was pointing out that the thought is out there. There are a lot of thoughts "out there". There are people out there who believe all sorts of things. This is certainly not something I'd worry about. That's what I'm saying. Fair enough....but 40 years ago, do you honestly believe that people would have thought anti-discrimination laws for businesses could have been used to force a business to provide a service to somebody else, even if it was against the business owner's religious belief (i.e. baking a wedding cake for a gay marriage)?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 9:46:10 GMT -5
Yeah, who would have thought people might be forced to serve people that their religion taught them were inferior o engaging in acts they didn't approve of... Cough, cough, black people, women, ...
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 31, 2014 9:50:28 GMT -5
There are a lot of thoughts "out there". There are people out there who believe all sorts of things. This is certainly not something I'd worry about. That's what I'm saying. Fair enough....but 40 years ago, do you honestly believe that people would have thought anti-discrimination laws for businesses could have been used to force a business to provide a service to somebody else, even if it was against the business owner's religious belief (i.e. baking a wedding cake for a gay marriage)? If you're asking me, the answer is yes. I gave always expected those who go into business to serve the public to do just that - serve the public. I have never expected those businesses to serve their own personal beliefs first and the public second. If that's what they want to do, they should not go into business to serve the public at large. They should form a different sort of business and provide their product/service on a private basis rather than a public corporation-type business. Personal beliefs and business, to me, are separate entities and should remain so.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Oct 31, 2014 10:29:48 GMT -5
I think churches should have the right to decide who uses the facility and for what purpose. And I think pastors have the right to choose what kind of celebrations they wish to be involved with.
When DH#2 and I were planning our marriage I checked with several churches here in the Phoenix area and talked with several pastors. All of them refused because I wasn't a member of their congregation. I had no problem with that. We are straight, white, and OLD ......... but not a member of their congregation.
The one I did find that would marry us is a Methodist Church on the ASU campus. Even then he wanted to do marriage counseling with us until I told him we were of the older set and both widowed. After 37 and 40 years of marriage he figured we knew how to work things out.
I also believe that all churches should lose their tax exempt status.
Churches are charitable organizations and fill a definite need. Getting gov't welfare can be several days to a drawn out affair. Churches fill immediate needs.
I agree that any property other than that of the physical church grounds should be taxed. Schools, parsonages, etc.
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