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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 22:36:56 GMT -5
In fairness, arranged marriages usually DO have a lower divorce rate... But it's not because the couples are always deliriously happy. It's usually due to the sociological way of life that produces arranged marriages. Societies where (usually) women don't have equal say to men, and so they can't get out of the marriage they were forced into, and men like having control over their property (wife) so do not like to give it up. Ya probably its nothing about when we go in to marriage we expect it will be for life and we try to make it work. Also divorce rate is low for arranged marriages when couples live in USA. Funny we are not "property" at USA. I guess you missed the word "usually" that I put in my post. Ones that aren't that way... AWESOME! I'm happy for the couple! Seriously, I am. But just because SOME end up in love, COULD leave, yet stay because they want to... doesn't mean that's the norm for arranged marriage.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Oct 18, 2014 22:37:19 GMT -5
Exactly, @richardintn - women in countries such as India or Saudi Arabia are considered property to be bartered/exchanged for money.
That woman has no say on who she's to be married to - and then may be trapped into a union of slavery and abuse/mistreatment that she has no escape from.
You think an arranged marriage between strangers is better than a marriage based on love? How sad.
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 18, 2014 22:38:34 GMT -5
Exactly, @richardintn - women in countries such as India or Saudi Arabia are considered property to be bartered/exchanged for money.
was that way in the US not much over 100 years ago. for all practical purposes.
That woman has no say on who she's to be married to - and then may be trapped into a union of slavery and abuse/mistreatment that she has no escape from.
You think an arranged marriage between strangers is better than a marriage based on love? How sad. i am not sure he said that. at all.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 22:39:00 GMT -5
I do agree with the complete and utter disassociation of the bond between marriage and church though. "Legal marriage" and "Religious marriage" should have nothing what-so-ever to do with each other. Get married in a courthouse or at the Clerk's office if you want it recognized by the state... THEN go have it done at a Church (if you can find one that will do it for you) if you want a religious one too. Mostly marriage is about property anyway. It does not mean you can not love who you married. I did not pick out my mother and father but I love them (except my father is departed). Probably why so many people get divorce in western cultures is because they thought marriage is about a warm furry feeling they get with this person or that. That is not love and maybe 1 couple in 1000 is gonna have warm furry feeling after 20 years long marriage.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 22:40:16 GMT -5
Exactly, @richardintn - women in countries such as India or Saudi Arabia are considered property to be bartered/exchanged for money.
That woman has no say on who she's to be married to - and then may be trapped into a union of slavery and abuse/mistreatment that she has no escape from.
You think an arranged marriage between strangers is better than a marriage based on love? How sad. You went to India a lot to no how is it? Or else you googled it?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 22:40:44 GMT -5
Exactly, @richardintn - women in countries such as India or Saudi Arabia are considered property to be bartered/exchanged for money.
was that way in the US not much over 100 years ago. for all practical purposes.
That woman has no say on who she's to be married to - and then may be trapped into a union of slavery and abuse/mistreatment that she has no escape from.
You think an arranged marriage between strangers is better than a marriage based on love? How sad. i am not sure he said that. at all. Actually that's pretty much exactly what I said. As to your insert of the "was that way in the US not much over 100 years ago. for all practical purposes."... Yes. It was. We've grown up since then.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 22:41:26 GMT -5
Ya probably its nothing about when we go in to marriage we expect it will be for life and we try to make it work. Also divorce rate is low for arranged marriages when couples live in USA. Funny we are not "property" at USA. I guess you missed the word "usually" that I put in my post. Ones that aren't that way... AWESOME! I'm happy for the couple! Seriously, I am. But just because SOME end up in love, COULD leave, yet stay because they want to... doesn't mean that's the norm for arranged marriage. OK I'm gonna not argue it there are to many experts here on arranged marriage and India cultures.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 22:43:22 GMT -5
I guess you missed the word "usually" that I put in my post. Ones that aren't that way... AWESOME! I'm happy for the couple! Seriously, I am. But just because SOME end up in love, COULD leave, yet stay because they want to... doesn't mean that's the norm for arranged marriage. OK I'm gonna not argue it there are to many experts here on arranged marriage and India cultures. I didn't limit myself to India (I was doing global). But yes... in SOME PARTS of India, that is still the culture. (glad you haven't experienced it... if you haven't)
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 18, 2014 22:43:59 GMT -5
I guess you missed the word "usually" that I put in my post. Ones that aren't that way... AWESOME! I'm happy for the couple! Seriously, I am. But just because SOME end up in love, COULD leave, yet stay because they want to... doesn't mean that's the norm for arranged marriage. OK I'm gonna not argue it there are to many experts here on arranged marriage and India cultures. LOL!
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Oct 18, 2014 22:48:03 GMT -5
You believe that? And I don't consider your statistics of 1 in 1000 being happy or having the warm & fuzzies after 20 years as accurate either - FAR from it.
I think you have a negative attitude about marriage in general.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 22:49:35 GMT -5
You believe that? And I don't consider your statistics of 1 in 1000 being happy or having the warm & fuzzies after 20 years as accurate either - FAR from it.
I think you have a negative attitude about marriage in general.[/quote] You assume it but you are wrong. You keep saying HAPPY MARRIAGE these are YOUR WORDS and not mine ones. I am totally happy with my marriage. It is a good arrangement and I am learning to love my husband same as anybody can do if they intend to. No I did not get a warm furry feeling and glazed eyes and I did not swoon it does not mean my marriage is not happy.
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Oct 18, 2014 22:51:02 GMT -5
No, I lived in Saudi Arabia/Egypt for 3 yrs when DH was an expatriate there. I saw a lot of oppression of women and arranged unions/marriages where the woman had no say on her fate.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 22:54:01 GMT -5
No, I lived in Saudi Arabia/Egypt for 3 yrs when DH was an expatriate there. I saw a lot of oppression of women and arranged unions/marriages where the woman had no say on her fate. Saudi Arabia is not India. It is one little country with little part of the number of people at India.
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Oct 18, 2014 23:01:55 GMT -5
No, but they do condone and arrange marriages between a man and woman - without her consent as to who she's to =be wed to. (Depending what religion they practice.)
That's not the point though. YOU said that marriages fail or have no love after 3 yrs. Do you have a link to statistics to back that up? My grandparents were married for 75 yrs. My parents, for over 50.
My husband and I celebrated 34 yrs before he passed away.
My bothers' marriages have also lasted over 2 or 3 decades until a death.
NONE of our partners were chosen for us - we chose each other.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 23:06:05 GMT -5
Heck, if it weren't FOR love, my marriage would be over long before now. (I hate my marriage, but love my wife)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 23:07:50 GMT -5
No, but they do condone and arrange marriages between a man and woman - without her consent as to who she's to =be wed to. (Depending what religion they practice.)
That's not the point though. YOU said that marriages fail or have no love after 3 yrs. Do you have a link to statistics to back that up? My grandparents were married for 75 yrs. My parents, for over 50.
My husband and I celebrated 34 yrs before he passed away.
My bothers' marriages have also lasted over 2 or 3 decades until a death.
NONE of our partners were chosen for us - we chose each other. No it is NOT what I said you keep trying to change my words. If you can not get it right I'm gonna not discuss with you. Also you always forget to say that the MAN does not get to pick out who will he marry. You do not even understand how does arranged marriage work except one little country.
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Oct 18, 2014 23:14:07 GMT -5
There are arranged marriages in the US as well - the "new" Mormons or Amish who force their 12 and 13 yr old daughters to wed a man 2, 3 or 4 times her age.
That union is also not based on love, and the girl is subjected to a life of popping out babies with a man she was "enslaved" to. That's the best word I can come up with - because that's her fate.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 23:17:48 GMT -5
There are arranged marriages in the US as well - the "new" Mormons or Amish who force their 12 and 13 yr old daughters to wed a man 2, 3 or 4 times her age.
That union is also not based on love, and the girl is subjected to a life of popping out babies with a man she was "enslaved" to. That's the best word I can come up with - because that's her fate. OK I got it right you donno whats arranged marriage so you use stupid extreme samples from a few people at USA and a few people at Saudi and they are not ANY thing alike what 1 BILLION people in the world do. Its the only way you can try to make a point.
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Oct 18, 2014 23:24:50 GMT -5
I won't debate with someone who won't listen and absorb. You have a very closed-mind on the subject.
I have also worked/had friendships with East Indian women - I've heard their stories from them directly on how they're oppressed when at home - even in N. America. Their husbands rule and they are often subjected to their demands.
I worked in a Women's Emergency Abuse Center for a couple of years - and many of the women who reached out for help and a safe place to escape were of East Indian descent, fleeing an abusive home environment.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 23:26:25 GMT -5
I won't debate with someone who won't listen and absorb. You have a very closed-mind on the subject.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 23:32:32 GMT -5
I won't debate with someone who won't listen and absorb. You have a very closed-mind on the subject.
I have also worked/had friendships with East Indian women - I've heard their stories from them directly on how they're oppressed when at home - even in N. America. Their husbands rule and they are often subjected to their demands.
I worked in a Women's Emergency Abuse Center for a couple of years - and many of the women who reached out for help and a safe place to escape were of East Indian descent, fleeing an abusive home environment ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ How could any of those women possibly know what they were talking about? Just because they lived it. What would they know?
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Oct 18, 2014 23:34:25 GMT -5
Exactly, @richardintn - what could THEY possibly know - having lived it?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 23:34:32 GMT -5
I won't debate with someone who won't listen and absorb. You have a very closed-mind on the subject.
I have also worked/had friendships with East Indian women - I've heard their stories from them directly on how they're oppressed when at home - even in N. America. Their husbands rule and they are often subjected to their demands.
I worked in a Women's Emergency Abuse Center for a couple of years - and many of the women who reached out for help and a safe place to escape were of East Indian descent, fleeing an abusive home environment ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ How could any of those women possibly know what they were talking about? Just because they lived it. What would they know? Ya they can no because they lived it but I can not no because I lived it. Got it. Different rules for here and there to help your argument. And its a FEW women so it proves her point yes? You will NEVER find a few AMERICAN women who have such conditions!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 0:07:02 GMT -5
ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ How could any of those women possibly know what they were talking about? Just because they lived it. What would they know? Ya they can no because they lived it but I can not no because I lived it. Got it. Different rules for here and there to help your argument. And its a FEW women so it proves her point yes? You will NEVER find a few AMERICAN women who have such conditions! See... therein lies the problem with your argument. You lived it differently so it must be the way you lived it. It can't be the way other people have lived it... because that didn't live it the way you did. I don't think ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ ever said YOUR life/marriage wasn't like you said it was. I know I sure as hell didn't. As to finding American women in that situation... I don't know, personally ANY that are/were in arranged marriages... but I have known four Indian couples that were all in arranged marriages (the owner of the Motel I work at hires Indian couples as housekeepers... he's had 4 since I have been here... all of them arranged marriages... as to how I know? they live here, I work here, we talk). Of the four, none of the women seemed happy with their husbands, but their culture had trained them to accept it. Of the four, one of the couples, I know, specifically (because their son also worked here, and we talked), that his mother only stayed married to his father "because she had to". Yes... even here in America. She was so indoctrinated into it that here, in the land of the free, "she has to stay".
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 19, 2014 0:08:49 GMT -5
i am not sure he said that. at all. Actually that's pretty much exactly what I said. that was not how i interpreted it, but i respect anyone that shoots down a spirited defense of themselves.
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Oct 19, 2014 0:13:46 GMT -5
I won't debate with someone who won't listen and absorb. You have a very closed-mind on the subject.
... ((Sigh)).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 0:16:51 GMT -5
OK I'm gonna not argue it there are to many experts here on arranged marriage and India cultures. Tiki. the key word here is cultures. From what I've gleaned, you've lived in the western world for a very long time? And you're deaf? So it should come as no great surprise to you that there is little or no interest nor tolerance in the western world for other cultures, and a profound deafness to those who attempt to share their culture with us. A very little knowledge is an arrogant thing. Now I'm starting to find it out
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Oct 19, 2014 0:32:07 GMT -5
I've been exposed to many cultures in my travels - and had to live by their rules while in their lands. There is FAR more acceptance of different cultures and and adapting in N. America than in many Asian or African nations.
When I was in certain parts of Saudi, I had to follow their religious laws when out in public (covering of my head and most of my skin including face) while being outdoors in oppressive heat in certain areas.
Yet these same people come here (from Egypt or India/Pakistan, for example) and their culture, clothing, and religion is accepted and tolerated without question. Something I'm 100% in favor of.
Is that not a one-sided coin?
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Oct 19, 2014 0:38:25 GMT -5
Just one that I know of - but it's been colorful.
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 19, 2014 0:41:06 GMT -5
I've known (and know) people with wonderful marriages that were arranged marriages. I've known (and know) people who chose one another (not arranged) with wonderful marriages. I don't see what the argument is, really. Different strokes for different folks. What's right for one may be all wrong for another.
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