milee
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Post by milee on Oct 1, 2014 12:54:18 GMT -5
It is rude and classless to leave a mess behind and expect someone else to clean it up. Even though they're always looking to recruit new members (love those initiation fees!), our yacht club has refused entry to two different families over the past couple of years. In both cases, during the probation period - 3 months between when you apply and when you're formally accepted, you get to try it out but you're not yet a member - the families had kids that made large messes and the family didn't seem to care, leaving the mess for others to clean up. In one case, a six year old was in the kid's play area and squirted ketchup all over a wall and bookshelf; when the parents came to pick the kid up, they just left the mess behind. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) The club sent the clear message that it's not worth the $20k initiation fee plus all the annual dues and required minimum food/beverage income to put up with that and I agree with them. It's not as much a money issue - those families were "paying" enough to theoretically compensate someone for cleaning up after them - it's a respect issue. The yacht club kicked out a messy family? ?? Now I have heard it all. Didn't exactly kick them out. Just refused to admit them to the club after the probationary period. Tomato/tomato.
But that's actually really rare. Happens maybe once every year or less, so it's noteworthy. A couple of years ago, the club built a fancy pants new building so they're always on the hunt for new people to pay the initiation fees to pay off all that sparkly crystal and marble. You gotta be pretty bad for them to decide that your big ol' check isn't good enough for admittance...
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 1, 2014 14:58:30 GMT -5
A private yacht club denying entry to low class folks... it can't be that rare. That's kind of what they do as a business. Just like private country clubs, private golf courses, etc. They're in the business of selling exclusivity to well to do folks. If they aren't turning low class folks away pretty regularly they're doing it wrong. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) OK, well since you seem to know more about it than I do... Maybe your yacht club works differently, but what we see here is people tend to self-select before the application process. The vast majority of the ones that show up and plunk down the check for the initiation fee (you have to submit a check with your application) understand how the system works and that they need to be on their best behavior. Add in the fact that they have to have been sponsored by an existing member, which means they've already been checked out at least a little bit. It's pretty rare that we get applicants that are unqualified, don't behave during the probationary period or have other issues that get them tossed. So normally there's no need to deny entry, turn folks away or toss people because people that aren't qualified just don't apply.
That was something I learned as an auditor and it's still true at most of the country clubs. Dress and act like you belong and you can go anywhere. Clubs and businesses to some extent rely on the mystique that there's some fancy security that will boot out and embarrass intruders. In most cases, there isn't. People just don't normally go where they don't belong or think they won't fit in.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 1, 2014 15:03:56 GMT -5
Forgot to wrap that last post up with why it related to the OP...
Since people tend to self-select and also act on their best behavior during the probationary period, my point was that either these parents thought their behavior was perfectly acceptable or that they could just pay enough to have their behavior ignored. Guess neither was true. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/idunno.gif)
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Oct 1, 2014 15:03:56 GMT -5
milee, I'm curious - what do your dues cover? What sort of activities do they offer (besides boating obviously)? It sounds like they're pretty family/kid friendly. Do you have/make a lot of friends at your club?
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 1, 2014 15:10:18 GMT -5
milee, I'm curious - what do your dues cover? What sort of activities do they offer (besides boating obviously)? It sounds like they're pretty family/kid friendly. Do you have a lot of friends at your club? I'm much more active at the local community sailing club than I am at the YC. The YC is pretty, but mainly we joined for the nice pool and the fact that we get great reciprocal privileges at other clubs around the country and world, which can be nice if I'm travelling for regattas.
The YC has been making big changes to attract young families, so offer all sorts of kids activities on weekends and some of the best summer camps in town. We have a few friends there (mostly other parents or sailors) and it's a nice place to hang by the pool and have drinks. But it's not like we go to many formal balls or spend every Friday night there like many of the retired people do. They keep trying to get me to get a club sailing program started because I've done that for other places, but frankly I think it's pretty tacky of them to want that type of volunteer service from someone who is a dues paying member. Yes, I know many of the retirees happily "volunteer" tons of hours at the YC, but IMHO volunteering is for a charity or at least a not for profit.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Oct 1, 2014 15:25:21 GMT -5
I am still trying to wrap my head around this. DH and I were invited to join a supper club with much smaller amounts, and even that was too rich for our blood. Like you said, I guess it's mostly self selecting ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) .
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 1, 2014 15:28:55 GMT -5
I am still trying to wrap my head around this. DH and I were invited to join a supper club with much smaller amounts, and even that was too rich for our blood. Like you said, I guess it's mostly self selecting ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) . Oh, we didn't pay that $20k initiation fee. We joined when they were an oldy moldy club with a tired facility looking to lure in active sailors and young families. We checked a lot of their boxes (young, sailors). Plus, I negotiated a screaming deal because I knew the old clubhouse was going to be torn down and they'd be operating out of a tent for 1-2 years. Now that it's all brand new, swanky and the place to be seen, the initiation fees are sky high, but they weren't back then when we joined. Or at least not if you were young, sailed and could negotiate.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 1, 2014 15:32:55 GMT -5
Before I read all 8 pages, can we agree on the following:
1) If you have kids, you just don't get it. 2) If you don't have kids, you just don't get it.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 1, 2014 15:44:10 GMT -5
Why don't you read the thread first before you jump to conclusions.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Oct 1, 2014 15:46:21 GMT -5
Why don't you read the thread first before you jump to conclusions. That's no fun ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/tongue2.png)
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 1, 2014 16:25:49 GMT -5
Oh The Walk of the Penguin Mich I'm just having a bit of fun in that oftentimes, each side thinks the other can't possibly get it. Although I suppose almost all parents were once childless couples. Every childless couple however, will not necessarily become a parent. IMO, a lot of the tension comes from how strongly a person believes that the environment should change to accommodate him/her. That could go either way. For example, the qualifier: "a BBQ place during lunch" was used quite a bit early on. How much noise is too much noise? How intrusive is too intrusive? Should being in a "family place" constitute a blanket justification for any and all behavior? I'll volunteer one: One thing that grates on me sometimes is these carriages that are actually small buses. Intellectually I understand that it may be unavoidable to take public transportation with said carriage at rush hour for whatever reason. That doesn't mean its any more fun for the commuters who just want to go home, and have to squeeze even tighter.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Oct 1, 2014 20:33:18 GMT -5
No. Never. I am a parent of small children and the only time they can "walk around" in a restaurant is if we are the only people sitting in a section. I won't say that I have never allowed, because I have. But never in a busy restaurant. I've never allowed my kids to throw a tantrum in the restaurant - if it goes that far we take the child out of the restaurant. Parents ignoring their young children (which is probably why the kids act up in the first place) is never justified in public. If you take your kids out in public, you better be ready to keep an eye on them and intervene if they are not acting appropriately. (Karma is going to bite me in the ass and my kids are going to be holy terrors the next time we go out). ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Oct 7, 2014 9:22:44 GMT -5
You need to teach your kids how to behave in public AT HOME and THEN and only THEN take them to a breakfast to IHOP (its loud as hell anyway) and IF they are safe out from IHOP - try to take them to...McD, then elsewhere and only when you know they are responding to parents voice in a calmly and quiet manner - take them to nicer establishment. And don't forget - if you are messing with a wrong woman - that broom can be up your wife's arz! ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) IHOP is <<< McD's??!!! ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) Depends on neighborhood they are in. Where am I - tons of McDs clean, restored, shiny. And one dirty IHOP where there no way to get in and if you did - scream your head off - no one will hear ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png)
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Oct 7, 2014 9:34:15 GMT -5
I don't have kids, I don't want kids, I don't like kids. What I do have is a hearing aid and a high tolerance for loud noises. Meaning I usually can't hear them. BUT, I will be goddamned if some asshole's precious little shit is standing up in the booth behind me screeching like a fucking hyena in the one working ear I have and the parents thinking "Oh aren't they just precious?!?!" NO they are not!!!! I have no hearing in one ear and would like to keep what's left in the other ear. If you don't want me to stab you in the head with my fork, just so you get the idea of what it sounds/feels like when your little shit is screeching, then shut it up!!! It is not cute to me or anyone else around us. And if I get one more present from the brat throwing things around the restaurant, they are going to be getting it whipped right back at their heads. I'm fine with picking up a baby's toy when they drop it, and yes, they have dropped it, but when it's a 6 to 12 year old who should know better throwing it in a temper tantrum, my tolerance goes down. Just ask my cousin's kids. They learned that the hard way. And from their aunt, not me. My other favorite is when DH gets the dirty looks because he is trying to walk, such as it is, his disabled ass from the men's room to the table and some stupid little shits are in the middle the aisle running around. I don't go to Chuck E. Cheese for a reason. McD's is done through the drive-through, when I go. Of course, this is just me and my opinion and circumstances. Dinner out is NOT a right, it is a privilege. Just like getting a driver's license or having sex, whether you pay for it or not. If I'm paying a decent chunk of change for a meal out, I really don't think it's asking a lot that manners, remember those?, are practiced by the brats AND the parents. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/rofl.gif) you don't post enough. Please, do.
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