The Liberal Assault on the NFL

[tallguy]

The week before Trump's comments, there were six players who engaged in some form of protest, including four who kneeled.  The week after Trump's comments, there were over 250, including three teams who stayed in the locker room instead of going out on the field.  In those three teams, there are many different backgrounds, and different opinions.  They felt it necessary to act as a team, and remained in the locker room as a compromise between those who wished to kneel and those who did not.  It was about unity, to bring the team and the country together as one.  Unfortunate that "unity" is neither a word that Trump appears to know or a value he holds in any respect. 

[grits]

It's been a long time since any President of the United States has sought unity. Most of them get up, and push a personal agenda and/or the agenda of the ones who have given money to their campaigns. 

[tallguy]

Sean Doolittle, major league pitcher, speaking about the protest of Bruce Maxwell and others:

Oakland Athletics catcher Bruce Maxwell's protests continued Friday in Texas when the 26-year-old took a knee during the national anthem before taking on the Rangers.  It was the first time Maxwell protested in an opposing team's ballpark, and he was booed by the crowd.

Maxwell's protest, which mirrors those of NFL players, including Colin Kaepernick, has obviously sparked debate, but former teammate Sean Doolittle of the Washington Nationals had a message of his own when he was asked by ESPN's Jerry Crasnick what his response is to athletes who kneel.

"I think American democracy is strong enough to have that conversation. I think my patriotism is strong enough to not be offended when somebody takes a knee during the anthem. That's not something I take personally. It's something that makes me want to reach out to that person and have a conversation with them and say, 'Let's talk about some of these issues. Tell me about certain things that have caused you to take such a stand.'

"I want to have these conversations with guys like Bruce Maxwell and guys in other leagues, and maybe someday we can get to a point where we give them a reason to stand, and they're proud to stand along the other guys that are standing.''    link

[Deleted]

And I new tweet... a challenge. so fun this all is. not.

[Virgil Showlion]

Sept 30, 2017 17:34:40 GMT -5 tallguy said:

At any rate, taking a knee during the anthem is a mild form of protest, affecting nobody to any real degree.

As I see it, this the single most important difference between their view and yours.

They don't consider it a mild form of protest.

I'm about halfway between you and them. I don't consider it mild, but it also doesn't cause my blood to boil.

[Virgil Showlion]

Sept 30, 2017 18:02:25 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 30, 2017 17:58:56 GMT -5 grits said:

If Trump had kept his mouth shut, this would not have grown into this massive division in the nation.  People are now doing it as an in your face to Trump.
The NFL is a business.  It is nothing more and nothing less. 
 

Trump had to do something to draw attention away from the Russian investigation. It's getting wat too close to him and he knows it.

I've heard this explanation proffered many times, but it makes no sense at all. The investigation is going to dig up what it digs up and conclude what it's going to conclude regardless of what the man tweets.

[zibazinski]

Trump is not the only president to start a divide. Besides the Hillary factor, his election was a reaction to the division totally caused by obama.

[Deleted]

Obama didn't cause a divide, unless it was by being black. And then he just revealed it.

[Lizard Queen]

I thought Obama's election meant that this country was over much of it's racism, but now I realize that it just disturbed all of the bottom feeders, and now they're swimming around in the light of day. So, in that sense, it was sort of Obama's fault. He dared get elected, and that pissed off the racists enough to come out of hiding.

[Opti]

Sept 30, 2017 21:54:00 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

I thought Obama's election meant that this country was over much of it's racism, but now I realize that it just disturbed all of the bottom feeders, and now they're swimming around in the light of day. So, in that sense, it was sort of Obama's fault. He dared get elected, and that pissed off the racists enough to come out of hiding.

I knew Obama's election meant this country was at a tipping point on racism. Enough past that Obama could be elected. But still embroiled enough that it would get worse and then either heal to slightly better or revert to somewhat worse. It appears it went to the latter option.

[Opti]

Sept 30, 2017 20:52:12 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Sept 30, 2017 18:02:25 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Trump had to do something to draw attention away from the Russian investigation. It's getting wat too close to him and he knows it.

I've heard this explanation proffered many times, but it makes no sense at all. The investigation is going to dig up what it digs up and conclude what it's going to conclude regardless of what the man tweets.

It makes sense because as he and his peeps are being investigated he knows what is being found out and what the investigators might think. He them knows things that will eventually be revealed to the public if Mueller continues on.

[saveinla]

beta.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-warnke-nfl-milo-speech-berkeley-trump-anthem-20170925-story.html#nt=oft09a-11gp1

There's an interesting conversation to be had about free speech and hate speech on college campuses and elsewhere, but that conversation was never going to be led by Yiannopolous. There's an interesting conversation to be had about anthem demonstrations, but that conversation was never going to be led by Trump. Both Yiannopolous and Trump are noncredible sources who have purposefully and repeatedly manipulated the media and their followers. They have made innumerable racist and sexist statements. They have worn their profound cruelties as badges of honor.


They are effective because they're loud and they lie. They speak to our ids and activate our basest fears.


Kaepernick, meanwhile, is a man of quiet integrity. He declined multiple interview requests for a recent massive New York Times profile; as the piece put it: "Kaepernick has stayed out of the spotlight, friends said, because he wants the conversation to not be about him, but about the issues he has raised." Kaepernick paid a steep price for staying true to himself and his commitment to justice; he's out of a job this season.

[Tennesseer]

Sept 30, 2017 20:52:12 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Sept 30, 2017 18:02:25 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Trump had to do something to draw attention away from the Russian investigation. It's getting wat too close to him and he knows it.

I've heard this explanation proffered many times, but it makes no sense at all. The investigation is going to dig up what it digs up and conclude what it's going to conclude regardless of what the man tweets.

You build up your civilian allies so they will fight for you if you get in trouble.

[Tennesseer]

Sept 30, 2017 21:11:42 GMT -5 oped said:

Obama didn't cause a divide, unless it was by being black. And then he just revealed it.

One only needs Google 'Obama' and 'ni@@er" and then click on images to see that.

[justme]

Found on Facebook...

[Deleted]

Sept 30, 2017 22:24:58 GMT -5 justme said:

Found on Facebook...

Not that I voted for Trump, but... What about the people that voted for him because he wasn't a corrupt, lying, dangerous, criminal, career politician, with intent to continue the damage to America that Obama began? What about those voters? I'd love to know where they should stand on the "take a knee" issue...

I mean... he's got an answer for everyone else that voted for Trump... what about them?

[Opti]

What about the people that voted for him because he wasn't a corrupt, lying, dangerous, criminal, career politician, with intent to continue the damage to America that Obama began?

Well, those voters have issues then. Because Trump is corrupt, lying, dangerous and criminal. He was however not a career politician and has the intent to damage anything useful Obama did and supposedly some of the bad things he has done as well. So they have that. Not a career politician and not Obama.

So if your big reason for voting for Trump is not Obama, I guess I got nothing.

[justme]

Sept 30, 2017 22:56:56 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 30, 2017 22:24:58 GMT -5 justme said:

Found on Facebook...

Not that I voted for Trump, but... What about the people that voted for him because he wasn't a corrupt, lying, dangerous, criminal, career politician, with intent to continue the damage to America that Obama began? What about those voters? I'd love to know where they should stand on the "take a knee" issue...

I mean... he's got an answer for everyone else that voted for Trump... what about them?

Well, considering the NFL players aren't "corrupt, lying, dangerous, criminal, career politician, with intent to continue the damage to America that Obama began?" people it seems to reason you'd be ok with all the kooky things they do too.

[Tennesseer]

Then those people who voted for trump weren't reading or listening.  Trump's personal history is full of discrimnating against Americans full of coruption and lying. Bankruptcies,cheating his contractors out of money due them, most likely criminal behavior dealing with the mafia and others, and hiring undocumented workers.  

[grits]

Sept 30, 2017 18:02:25 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 30, 2017 17:58:56 GMT -5 grits said:

If Trump had kept his mouth shut, this would not have grown into this massive division in the nation.  People are now doing it as an in your face to Trump.
The NFL is a business.  It is nothing more and nothing less. 
 

Trump had to do something to draw attention away from the Russian investigation. It's getting wat too close to him and he knows it.

Trump is acting no differently than he did before he was elected. He has always tended to be a loud mouthed hot head. 

[Tennesseer]

Trump organization escaped a fraud ruling by settling with plaintiffs for $25 million for his scam called Trump University.

[Deleted]

Sept 30, 2017 23:04:15 GMT -5 justme said:

Sept 30, 2017 22:56:56 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Not that I voted for Trump, but... What about the people that voted for him because he wasn't a corrupt, lying, dangerous, criminal, career politician, with intent to continue the damage to America that Obama began? What about those voters? I'd love to know where they should stand on the "take a knee" issue...

I mean... he's got an answer for everyone else that voted for Trump... what about them?

Well, considering the NFL players aren't "corrupt, lying, dangerous, criminal, career politician, with intent to continue the damage to America that Obama began?" people it seems to reason you'd be ok with all the kooky things they do too.

I know where I stand (I fully support their right to act like childish assholes and disrespect our flag... I don't support there being no non-governmental consequences for doing so however... they should be fired. Freedom of speech does NOT mean freedom from consequences. It only means the government won't arrest or fine you for it), and as I mentioned in the first six words, I didn't vote for him... but that's not the point anyway.

The point was that he was addressing Trump VOTERS, not the disrespectful NFL players. So I'm interested on where those voters that voted for Trump because they wouldn't vote for a "corrupt, lying, dangerous, criminal, career politician, with intent to continue the damage to America that Obama began"... where should they be on this issue?

[Deleted]

Sept 30, 2017 23:08:52 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Then those people who voted for Trump weren't reading or listening.  Trump's personal history is full of discrimnating against Americans full of coruption and lying. Bankruptcies,cheating his contractors out of money due them, most likely criminal behavior dealing with the mafia and others, and hiring undocumented workers.  

Or maybe they were reading and listening... and decided that a "corrupt, lying, criminal" (basically things I think we can BOTH agree could apply to Trump) was better than a "corrupt, lying, dangerous, criminal, career politician, with intent to continue the damage to America that Obama began"

[Opti]

Justme, well done. Its obviously hours past my bed time.

[justme]

Sept 30, 2017 23:13:58 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 30, 2017 23:04:15 GMT -5 justme said:

Well, considering the NFL players aren't "corrupt, lying, dangerous, criminal, career politician, with intent to continue the damage to America that Obama began?" people it seems to reason you'd be ok with all the kooky things they do too.

I know where I stand (I fully support their right to act like childish assholes and disrespect our flag... I don't support there being no non-governmental consequences for doing so however... they should be fired. Freedom of speech does NOT mean freedom from consequences. It only means the government won't arrest or fine you for it), and as I mentioned in the first six words, I didn't vote for him... but that's not the point anyway.

The point was that he was addressing Trump VOTERS, not the disrespectful NFL players. So I'm interested on where those voters that voted for Trump because they wouldn't vote for a "corrupt, lying, dangerous, criminal, career politician, with intent to continue the damage to America that Obama began"... where should they be on this issue?

Well, for one some would say the president is a childish asshole and he hasn't been fired. For two, it's up to their employers to fire them and you are not them so your opinion means nothing.

And, again, since the NFL players aren't lying corrupt career politicians they should side with them because that's how they voted, regardless of all the stupid shitty things trump did.

[Opti]

Do you think a career politician would have forgotten Puerto Rico was part of the US?

[Deleted]

Sept 30, 2017 23:01:23 GMT -5 Opti said:

What about the people that voted for him because he wasn't a corrupt, lying, dangerous, criminal, career politician, with intent to continue the damage to America that Obama began?

Well, those voters have issues then. Because Trump is corrupt, lying, dangerous and criminal. He was however not a career politician and has the intent to damage anything useful Obama did and supposedly some of the bad things he has done as well. So they have that. Not a career politician and not Obama.

So if your big reason for voting for Trump is not Obama, I guess I got nothing.

Just out if curiosity, I have to ask: What useful thing that Obama did does Trump want to damage? I've tried to find things that fit  that description and can't find any.

And you forgot "stop the damage to America"... so "not Obama, and not damage America, and not career politician" (dangerous and criminal are on the fence for me... so I gave in and allowed "criminal" when I reiterated my question with a comparison to Donald a few posts ago... you can have one or the other, but not both).

[Deleted]

Sept 30, 2017 23:18:26 GMT -5 justme said:

Sept 30, 2017 23:13:58 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

I know where I stand (I fully support their right to act like childish assholes and disrespect our flag... I don't support there being no non-governmental consequences for doing so however... they should be fired. Freedom of speech does NOT mean freedom from consequences. It only means the government won't arrest or fine you for it), and as I mentioned in the first six words, I didn't vote for him... but that's not the point anyway.

The point was that he was addressing Trump VOTERS, not the disrespectful NFL players. So I'm interested on where those voters that voted for Trump because they wouldn't vote for a "corrupt, lying, dangerous, criminal, career politician, with intent to continue the damage to America that Obama began"... where should they be on this issue?

Well, for one some would say the president is a childish asshole and he hasn't been fired. For two, it's up to their employers to fire them and you are not them so your opinion means nothing.

And, again, since the NFL players aren't lying corrupt career politicians they should side with them because that's how they voted, regardless of all the stupid shitty things Trump did.

For one, you can't "fire" the president for being an asshole (something that I don't disagree with you on, he is an asshole). The government isn't a company or "standard, non-governmental" employer. It's a government, it's run according to rules and law. and the only way to remove a sitting president is enshrined in the Constitution... and nowhere in that document does it say "If the president is an asshole, he may be fired".

For two, I agree. It IS up to their employers. I said what I said meaning "if it was up to me"... as in "if I was a team owner, or if I was Commissioner of the NFL, or if I had the authority... then I'd fire them. I apologize if I was unclear on that point. I wasn't demanding that they be fired. I was stating what I'd do if I could.

And, again, you missed the point of the question. But I'm not going to ask it again... because driving the bus in circles has been pointed out to me to be non-productive.

[Deleted]

Sept 30, 2017 23:22:10 GMT -5 Opti said:

Do you think a career politician would have forgotten Puerto Rico was part of the US?

I think an entry level politician would know how many states there are... after that flub I'm not surprised anymore by what any politician might or might not know, career politician or not.

[Opti]

Sept 30, 2017 23:23:35 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 30, 2017 23:01:23 GMT -5 Opti said:

Well, those voters have issues then. Because Trump is corrupt, lying, dangerous and criminal. He was however not a career politician and has the intent to damage anything useful Obama did and supposedly some of the bad things he has done as well. So they have that. Not a career politician and not Obama.

So if your big reason for voting for Trump is not Obama, I guess I got nothing.

Just out if curiosity, I have to ask: What useful thing that Obama did does Trump want to damage? I've tried to find things that fit  that description and can't find any.

And you forgot "stop the damage to America"... so "not Obama, and not damage America, and not career politician" (dangerous and criminal are on the fence for me... so I gave in and allowed "criminal" when I reiterated my question with a comparison to Donald a few posts ago... you can have one or the other, but not both).

I'm not conservative and have no desire to go back to when Trump was born or slightly after, so I see him as causing damage to America. Some Bernie supporters voted for him Because He Would Damage America, so not all Trump voters even think he's leading them to the promised land.

I didn't forget your point. I just don't agree with it.