Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Sept 13, 2014 21:35:50 GMT -5
Wow. Hmmm. Is that to exercise control over her speech or minimize electronic footprints? To to me that level of monitoring belies a claim of trust. I myself would not have responded positively. Speech isn't the issue. Inappropriate pictures were the issue. I couldn't tell if she was sending inappropriate pictures of herself to boys, and I could tell they were sending them to her. Do you know how snapchat works? She can still text people and use facebook message with them, but those are easily tracked/saved. She doesn't "need" a smartphone; she wanted one. This was the deal for getting one. We monitor it. If she doesn't like it, she doesn't have to have the iPhone.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2014 21:41:37 GMT -5
Nude picks? Ick.
So you are tracking for photos. While I definitely understand the desire to avoid inappropriate pictures of daughter in cyberspace, I'd be concerned about underlying issues.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2014 21:41:49 GMT -5
Or, just devils advocate, maybe not. Is it possible this is rebellion against the constant eyes, the 'preachers kid' syndrome... And she's not being completely truthful? We were typing at the same time - mine took a while because I'm also doing other stuff, but I think that's a big possibility here.
I'm hoping that Chloe and DH can find a way to reduce the pressure so that DD can be making decisions based on what she wants not just reacting to a very high pressure, high stress environment.
I'm sorry but the first thing that runs through my head with this is "Footloose." Ariel is the preacher's kid but also likes to portray herself as the town whore, such as it is back in the 80's. Ren is the awesome guy fresh from Chicago who just wants to dance. Sorry but that is the first thing that popped in my head and they both turned out to be pretty good kids. I was a boring teenager so I can't really speak from experience. Did my drinking all the way across the street. Didn't have to worry about driving, especially as I didn't bother getting my license until I was 18.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Sept 13, 2014 21:45:52 GMT -5
Nude picks? Ick. So you are tracking for photos. While I definitely understand the desire to avoid inappropriate pictures of daughter in cyberspace, I'd be concerned about underlying issues.
I think it may have to do with what milee was talking about being a pleaser. Teenage boys ask for pictures of "in just your sports bra" or something like that. It's frustrating to deal with--especially since this didn't happen when we were kids.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2014 21:52:07 GMT -5
The pics didn't, social media makes it easier, but crap still happened, just a different arena. It was, just show me your sports bra...
So, why are boys sending her pictures, what vibes, if not outright invitations, is she giving out?
Why do you fear she might send pictures? She's a smart kid.
Why don't you trust her? There must be a reason.
I agree with pleasing possibility. But if that's true, you have a short window to try to help her understand the causes and potential consequences...
Maybe counseling? Self defense classes?
I feel like I'm lecturing, and don't mean to, I'm not thinking I'm doing it all right here, and hope to get through the next 10 years without major issues, just concerned....
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 13, 2014 21:56:12 GMT -5
Don't know if it will help any, as I agree teens can be beyond difficult, but someday, when they're in their 50s like mine are, you'll look back at this and chuckle, wondering how they ever survived to become such wonderful people.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2014 22:12:19 GMT -5
I think mine relaxed by 30 I think I'm feeling this because I was a pleaser. (Still am in some ways) My high school boyfriends weren't the problem... Although I was convinced by more than one guy to do something I wasn't convinced I wanted to do... Ultimately those decisions are short term. The college boyfriend, 6 years older than me... Man, I don't know who I was the whole time I was in that relationship. He was in control of everything. He wasn't abusive, but he could have been. If he hadn't been an unbelievable ass... If he'd actually given me the ring I expected instead of the worst Christmas present ever... I'm not sure what life would have been. I would have married him. And been miserable. And the next one... Even worse. I completely disappeared. I was self destructive. Thank goodness it was short lived. And I'll admit I'm just incredibly lucky. I'm not sure what changed. I hardly knew my husband when we got pregnant. But I am always myself in our relationship. Strong and me. Maturation? Don't know, but it would be nice if daughter could figure stuff out sooner than later...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2014 6:39:11 GMT -5
I've never heard of someone checking a teen's text messages every night. How do you know they haven't deleted some of them? FWIW, I have boys so maybe girls are different? I can catch it when she does that. There's the number of total texts not comparing to the amount in that day. She has been known to delete individual texts, and it's obvious that part of the conversation is missing. She then loses the phone for whatever amount of time I decide. good god, my kids have hundreds of texts a day - I would hate to have to count them to make sure none were deleted. also, maybe it's because my DD was off to college 300 miles away at 16, but you seem to be over-involved. Did your DD ask you to intervene with these boys? as far as letting her go on a date with him - if she wants to go, I would let her go to a movie or something (you or DH drive) and maybe she'll decide she doesn't like him and doesn't want to go on another date. if you tell her she can't go on a date with him, he may become the most wonderful thing in the world to her and she'll resent you.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2014 9:11:53 GMT -5
Very well said Rukh.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 14, 2014 9:14:27 GMT -5
Don't know if it will help any, as I agree teens can be beyond difficult, but someday, when they're in their 50s like mine are, you'll look back at this and chuckle, wondering how they ever survived to become such wonderful people. I'm not chuckling yet and mine are in their early 20s. So you are saying I'm gonna have to wait another 30 years? LOL! Nah! Mine have been actually human since their mid-30s!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2014 13:13:02 GMT -5
I've never heard of someone checking a teen's text messages every night. How do you know they haven't deleted some of them? FWIW, I have boys so maybe girls are different? I can catch it when she does that. There's the number of total texts not comparing to the amount in that day. She has been known to delete individual texts, and it's obvious that part of the conversation is missing. She then loses the phone for whatever amount of time I decide. I treat texts like conversations they are having with their friends. I'm not privy to all of them and I don't think it is healthy if I am. I keep an eye out for who they are talking to more than anything.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2014 13:29:43 GMT -5
If she has a smart phone I don't know that you can monitor it much anyhow. Kids seem to be about 2 steps ahead of their parents technology-wise. When my son was 9, he was CALLING me from his ipod touch. I have no freaking clue how he did it, but I just added his ipod number to my contacts list and grumbled about having just bought him a tracphone. For plain texting and messaging there are a hundred ways they can go about it without using the default texting feature of the phone.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 14, 2014 14:39:20 GMT -5
Well, if you're that nervous you can get a printed record of all their texts.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2014 15:51:13 GMT -5
If she has a smart phone I don't know that you can monitor it much anyhow. Kids seem to be about 2 steps ahead of their parents technology-wise. When my son was 9, he was CALLING me from his ipod touch. I have no freaking clue how he did it, but I just added his ipod number to my contacts list and grumbled about having just bought him a tracphone. For plain texting and messaging there are a hundred ways they can go about it without using the default texting feature of the phone. I agree wholeheartedly that unless you're a tech-geek yourself, it's hard to keep up with tech-savvy kids. It seems like there are a zillion apps that can help a person hide how they use their phones and other gadgets. The average parent of a teen probably has no use for this kind of stuff, so doesn't know it's out there. The kids know though.
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Malarky
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Post by Malarky on Sept 14, 2014 17:18:42 GMT -5
I keep going back and forth as to whether I should weigh in on this thread. I was completely stifled as a teen. I reacted by smoking, drinking, sneaking out of the house and sleeping with my boyfriend. Circumventing my parents rules became my primary goal. And they found out about maybe 2% of it. Luckily, I was born with a great deal of common sense and survived my upbringing. Fast forward to my own teen children I don't want that for them. While I would like for them to be angels, the fact is that they test limits and are sometimes incredibly irresponsible. I can't choose their friends for them. If I try, I'm just making that person more attractive. I can and do let them know how I feel about various people in their lives and why I feel that way. If I think a person will bring them down, I say so.
I will specifically address DD who is 17, the cheerleader, who doesn't hang out with her team outside of of practice, games and competitions. . She knows everybody. The jocks. The stoners. The skaters. The theater kids. The nerd herd. The band kids. Interestingly enough, there are some from every crowd that drink. Some that smoke dope. No "type" is really that different. They are all just kids, struggling to find their identity.
I'm the parent that my kid feels safe calling for a ride home when her ride/date got drunk. And "by the way Mom, I had three beers. And I made sure that I never left one unattended." Kudos, kiddo. I like that 1) she called for a ride home 2) she knows about not leaving her drink, even though she thinks she knows everyone at the party and 3) she limited her drinking so she wasn't shitfaced. As so many of her peers were. Although not ideal, it beats the hell out of the kid who goes off to college and is just experimenting for the first time. In terms of smoking weed. I nailed DD at the beginning of the summer. She got to spend three weeks exclusively in my company. While I don't think it automatically leads to a life of crime and a one way ticket to hell, I am worried about what's in it. I personally haven't gotten stoned for over 20 years because the last time it was clearly laced with something. DD can't take penicillin, sulfa drugs, benadryl and a bunch of other shit without getting sick. Who knows how she might react to whatever the current crop of weed is laced with. The kid can't even put a cut on a bandaid.
I overheard one of her friends commenting recently about how she doesn't smoke with them anymore. Her answer was that it really wasn't worth the time spent with Malarky .
I can't control most of what she does and who she sees. Nor do I really want to. I have to trust that I taught her well and that she feels like she can come to me when it's really important.
I don't routinely check her phone, although I do reserve the right to. I did when she was grounded and I was alternately bored and astounded at the crap that entertains teens. And don't tell her, I also have access to her twitter and ask accounts. She never should have opened them on my old computer. I still fire it up sometimes to check things out.
So, no. Parenting teens isn't for the faint of heart.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Sept 14, 2014 17:21:36 GMT -5
Well, remember I work with 300 teenagers on a daily basis...I know more than I want to know. So, here's the update from the conversation today. We talked about how DD had created a situation on Friday night at the football game that caused our perception of this boy (him aggressively pursuing her at school and her not being interested) to influence our reaction to him and his mother approaching us. Then, we explained to her that if the boy and his mother weren't aware that DD was telling us she didn't want to be more than friends with him, they must have been very confused by our reactions. DD acknowledges how she hasn't used her power for good and will try to do better. Then, we asked her what she wanted from this situation with the boy and how we can support her. She acknowleged that she does "like" him because he's cute and he's paying attention to her. She has reiterated that she doesn't want to pursue a romantic relationship with him. She said she was just being over-dramatic on Friday when she said she just wanted us to give him a chance (fairly typical for her). We asked her if anything else had happened that we should know about. She said that he has asked her to Homecoming multiple times. She said her answer at first was "maybe" and then it turned to "I don't want to go to Homecoming at all". We've tried desperately to explain to her that she's giving him mixed messages. We asked again if she wanted to role play conversations with him, but she declined. She thinks she can maintain the platonic relationship on her own. I hope she's right. We left it open for her to come back to us if she wants to see him outside of school. We reiterated that she gets to make a lot of her own decisions, and we are trying to support her based on the info she gives us and that the support is better tailored when the info is truthful. We still have expectations of how she behaves and with whom she interacts. I did tell her I would not appreciate her asking the morning of Homecoming to go with him to Homecoming. Saturday and Sunday have been very pleasant and today's conversation was also.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 14, 2014 17:24:50 GMT -5
Good job!
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Sept 14, 2014 19:55:46 GMT -5
I just want to say that my DD has three friends/aquaintances who had parents who had had that much control over them in HS. Anyone want to guess where they all went to college?
One when to college in northern Maine. Another one in Miami and the last one in California.
for the record we live in NJ and I seriously doubt any of them will willingly come back.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Sept 14, 2014 20:04:44 GMT -5
I just want to say that my DD has three friends/aquaintances who had parents who had had that much control over them in HS. Anyone want to guess where they all went to college? One when to college in northern Maine. Another one in Miami and the last one in California. for the record we live in NJ and I seriously doubt any of them will willingly come back. Why did you feel the need to be harsh towards me? We were all having a very nice discussion. And your example isn't really making the point you want it to make. The kids went to college. They didn't go live in a brothel, stay in their parents basement, or go to prison. They went to college. Isn't the goal of parenting to get the child to adult hood as a well-rounded, self-sustaining, society-contributing individual? Sheesh.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Sept 14, 2014 20:08:27 GMT -5
Based on the new info, I'm not sure if DD wants to date the boy, ditch the boy, or just be friends. I would question whether she is telling you the real deal. And that honestly, is what the result of being so protective and monitoring everything results in. I think your methods are ok for a 12-13 year old - but you now doing this with a 16 year old who will be a legal adult in 2 years or less. One of the important parts of parenting that I did was to gradually cede these responsibilities to them over time. This was never done for me and when I suddenly was on my own - I had developed no internal controls or coping mechanisms. With so much parental overinvolvement - the goal of teendom becomes how to get away with doing things, normal, average, teen things. Maybe that is telling your parents you aren't interested in a boy you really like because then they'd just say no. on the other hand - if she really isn't interested in this boy, but was unable to stand up for herself against kissing - (on school property/public venue no less! With the "adults" about) that would be worst-case scenario for me. This would mean that she has been so schooled to be what others want/expect that she has not taken control and ownership of her own body in this very important way. I'm fine with most of this, especially the first sentence. I didn't know what she wanted either until after today's conversation. I take issue that she has "been so schooled to be what others want/expect that she has not taken control and ownership of her own body". I'm not sure what I said that implied I have taught her to do whatever a boy asks her to do. She is a flirt. She likes attention from boys. This is not abnormal teenage girl behavior. I'm not sure what indicates I condone it, much less taught her to do that.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Sept 14, 2014 20:09:43 GMT -5
I feel like I'm lecturing, and don't mean to, I'm not thinking I'm doing it all right here, and hope to get through the next 10 years without major issues, just concerned.... Nope, you never came across to me like you were lecturing.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Sept 14, 2014 20:09:50 GMT -5
I just want to say that my DD has three friends/aquaintances who had parents who had had that much control over them in HS. Anyone want to guess where they all went to college? One when to college in northern Maine. Another one in Miami and the last one in California. for the record we live in NJ and I seriously doubt any of them will willingly come back. Why did you feel the need to be harsh towards me? We were all having a very nice discussion. And your example isn't really making the point you want it to make. The kids went to college. They didn't go live in a brothel, stay in their parents basement, or go to prison. They went to college. Isn't the goal of parenting to get the child to adult hood as a well-rounded, self-sustaining, society-contributing individual? Sheesh. I'm sorry if you thought that was harsh. I didn't think it was. My point really was that they were good kids who didn't see the reason why they were being watched like that. but I will step out if it makes you feel better.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Sept 14, 2014 20:14:50 GMT -5
Why did you feel the need to be harsh towards me? We were all having a very nice discussion. And your example isn't really making the point you want it to make. The kids went to college. They didn't go live in a brothel, stay in their parents basement, or go to prison. They went to college. Isn't the goal of parenting to get the child to adult hood as a well-rounded, self-sustaining, society-contributing individual? Sheesh. I'm sorry if you thought that was harsh. I didn't think it was. My point really was that they were good kids who didn't see the reason why they were being watched like that. but I will step out if it makes you feel better. I don't need you to step out, I just am not one to avoid uncomfortable conversation (well, except for at a Friday night football game in front of hundreds of people ). My interpretation of your post was something along the lines of "you're such an awful parent that your children will never want anything to do with you once they finally escape". I do tend to over-interpret, and I apologize for doing that.
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Malarky
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Post by Malarky on Sept 14, 2014 20:16:37 GMT -5
Chole,
I think Beach's point is that the kids felt stifled and left, never to return. That's what I did. And tried to be a different sort of parent.
And Ruhk's point seems to be that some kids try to please. There isn't anything wrong with it, except that it may put them at risk. Nature vs. nurture.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Sept 14, 2014 20:21:22 GMT -5
Knee Deep in Water Chloe I didn't mean it that way! I meant that you have to let go as she is growing up and you can't follow her around for the next ten years to make sure she is okay. ( well I guess you can, but it's frowned on ) If I felt I had to read ever text my Dd sent I would have gone crazy! it also would have just made her not put things in writing. and trust me it gets very real when they go away to college. I know there are things happening in her dorm I would rather not!!! I just tried very hard to slowly give her more and more freedom/responsibility so that she could handle it. I hope.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Sept 14, 2014 20:29:50 GMT -5
I'm sorry if you thought that was harsh. I didn't think it was. My point really was that they were good kids who didn't see the reason why they were being watched like that. but I will step out if it makes you feel better. I don't need you to step out, I just am not one to avoid uncomfortable conversation (well, except for at a Friday night football game in front of hundreds of people ). My interpretation of your post was something along the lines of "you're such an awful parent that your children will never want anything to do with you once they finally escape". I do tend to over-interpret, and I apologize for doing that. My interpretation of your parenting from this thread is you absolutely would do anything you can to make sure your kids don't do anything that could hurt them. As a parent I completly understand, but think sometimes you have to let them make their own mistakes to figure out how to not make them and/or come back from them. It was a very fine line I tried not to cross. But I promise you dropping her off at college 3 hours away was very unsettling and I like to think I didn't have too much control over her. But man was it difficult to be okay with having literally almost none.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 14, 2014 20:30:21 GMT -5
Sounds to me like things are working themselves out, Chloe. Your daughter is learning and growing. It takes practice and guidance is really helpful if the kid is open to it. In my opinion, you're reacting well and offering good advice. Hopefully, she'll take that advice and continue to learn and grow.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2014 22:26:12 GMT -5
I think the point being made wasn't that you taught her to do what a boy asked, but that you have trained her to do what you ask...
As parents we need to balance us doing what we think is best, with allowing the kids to develop skills in what they think is best.... Otherwise, if they are so attune to turning to someone else for answers and prompts for what to do and how to behave, when the void of the parent appears, they are susceptible to anyone stepping in to fill it.
Ie. She has to have her own voice. It is concerning a bit that she can't exactly articulate what she wants... She seems to repeat what you want to hear, what boy wants to hear, etc. Although this last talk might be a step in the right direction... Time will tell. But in the void of other people's voices, she has to be able to find her own. Generally, this comes with being allowed to practice. And we need to be careful that we don't so curtail/contain that they don't have the room to find their own voice, make their own mistakes, grow their own awareness and code.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2014 22:27:34 GMT -5
Ok. I missed the last page before typing...
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 15, 2014 6:54:49 GMT -5
If she's a pleaser the needs to be addressed before anything else. You need to help her find her voice before she ends up in relationships and situations she doesn't want. I'm hoping the control you exert, understandable as it is, small town and you're a teacher, isn't hurting instead of helping. The mixed signals are understandable because she isn't sure what she wants either at this point but until she does, she needs to stay out of the dating game because there's plenty of people out there to tell her what she wants. You've a few more years before she goes away to college or whatever. Now is the time to give her roots so she can use her wings successfully.
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