Ray Rice NFL Suspension Over Domestic Violence.

[Shooby]

BTW, has Ray Rice made some statement somewhere that he thought his very life was in danger and that is WHY he hit her? Sorry, but I must have missed that statement by him. Um, and if he ISN"T saying that, why are some here presuming to say it for him?

[mmhmm]

Sept 14, 2014 16:37:08 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Okay, so he is shorter (though thicker) than you. Would you (or a jury) consider him physically imposing and scary? I wouldn't, though I am a big guy in comparison.

Compared to me, probably not.  He has 50 pounds on me and is a few inches shorter, so he's way outside my weight class, and undoubtedly stronger.  A jury would see a guy fighting another guy, and all they care about is who threw the first punch.  If I swung on him first they wouldn't care that he knocked me out.

Compared to a woman, he's going to look pretty damn strong.  At 5'8" and over 200 he's going to look pretty thick.

This juror would definitely care, Shaun. As I've said, to me it's not about gender. It's about the difference in size and physical strength, and about excessive force in the face of the existing situation because of that difference. Gender doesn't matter to me and I really don't think I'm alone in the world.

[billisonboard]

Sept 14, 2014 18:36:02 GMT -5 Shooby said:

BTW, has Ray Rice made some statement somewhere that he thought his very life was in danger and that is WHY he hit her? Sorry, but I must have missed that statement by him. Um, and if he ISN"T saying that, why are some here presuming to say it for him?

Check reply #43

[Shooby]

Um, my posts aren't numbered. Sooo, if you can directly quote Ray Rice claiming she threatened his life, then please do.

[billisonboard]

Sept 14, 2014 18:46:56 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Um, my posts aren't numbered. Sooo, if you can directly quote Ray Rice claiming she threatened his life, then please do.

That's weird. Mine are numbered. Maybe you could get someone to fix that for you.

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2014 9:22:45 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Doesn't it make sense to use the least amount of force necessary to control a situation? Seems logical to me.

That seems logical to me as well. Make the other person unconscious is the "least amount of force" possible (from a cumulative use standpoint).

[Shooby]

I tried. My quote feature doesn't work either. It works under Google chrome but I don't prefer to use that so when I am on here, I can't use all the features. I tried to fix it but it won't work.

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2014 9:32:41 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Even the military recognizes different physical statutes for women, so duh.

Yes they do. And they are WRONG to do so.

A bullet fired at you doesn't care if you are male of female.
A river you have to cross doesn't care if you are male or female.
A 20 mile hike doesn't care if you are male or female.
Heck, even the controls in a command bunker don't care if you are male or female.

[billisonboard]

Sept 14, 2014 18:54:31 GMT -5 Shooby said:

I tried. My quote feature doesn't work either. It works under Google chrome but I don't prefer to use that so when I am on here, I can't use all the features. I tried to fix it but it won't work.

Bummer

[Shooby]

Yup. Sooooo, still waiting for the Ray Rice quotes of him claiming it was self defense and he felt that his LIFE was in danger. I'll wait......

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2014 9:33:39 GMT -5 Shooby said:

I really don't know Richard is trying to argue. That Ray's life was in danger? That she could have killed him with her bare hands? Oh, ok. What nonsense.

I am simply stating he has a right to defend himself and stop the attack.

[Shooby]

Richard in TN:
"Yes they do. And they are WRONG to do so.

A bullet fired at you doesn't care if you are male of female.
A river you have to cross doesn't care if you are male or female.
A 20 mile hike doesn't care if you are male or female.
Heck, even the controls in a command bunker don't care if you are male or female."

In hand to hand combat, yeah, physical strength will trump. Sorry you dont' accept that reality. And, if someone breaks in to the home and starts a fight, I think most women would expect their husbands to step up to the plate, not cowering in the corner while mommy tries to take down the burglar. Uh huh.

[swamp]

Sept 14, 2014 18:59:35 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 14, 2014 9:33:39 GMT -5 Shooby said:

I really don't know Richard is trying to argue. That Ray's life was in danger? That she could have killed him with her bare hands? Oh, ok. What nonsense.

I am simply stating he has a right to defend himself and stop the attack.

You have a right to defend your self with similar force used on you. He went way overboard. You also can't claim self defense when you started it. And spitting on someone is starting it. 

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2014 10:25:45 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Sept 14, 2014 10:24:19 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I won't turn my back on a angry person. I question his ability to effectively restrain her. I understand it has been started repeatedly that it would be easy for him to do so. I don't see where in the small elevator he could move to avoid her. She was between him and the elevator buttons when she attacked.

You don't turn your back on anybody with a spin and pin. He could easily have handled the situation. He chose another way. His problem.

If "he chose another way" is his problem... why is "she chose to physically attack him" NOT her problem?

[zibazinski]

Sept 14, 2014 19:00:27 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Richard in TN:
"Yes they do. And they are WRONG to do so.

A bullet fired at you doesn't care if you are male of female.
A river you have to cross doesn't care if you are male or female.
A 20 mile hike doesn't care if you are male or female.
Heck, even the controls in a command bunker don't care if you are male or female."

In hand to hand combat, yeah, physical strength will trump. Sorry you dont' accept that reality. And, if someone breaks in to the home and starts a fight, I think most women would expect their husbands to step up to the plate, not cowering in the corner while mommy tries to take down the burglar. Uh huh.

Except in my case.

[billisonboard]

Sept 14, 2014 19:03:12 GMT -5 swamp said:

... And spitting on someone is starting it. 

Are the reports of him spitting on her accurate? It looks like it on the video. But I wonder. What is the common human reaction when someone has spittle on them? Isn't it to wipe it off? She makes no move to wipe anything off.

[swamp]

Sept 14, 2014 19:23:14 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 14, 2014 19:03:12 GMT -5 swamp said:

... And spitting on someone is starting it. 

Are the reports of him spitting on her accurate? It looks like it on the video. But I wonder. What is the common human reaction when someone has spittle on them? Isn't it to wipe it off? She makes no move to wipe anything off.

Try spitting on a few people and report back to us. 

[billisonboard]

Sept 14, 2014 19:27:23 GMT -5 swamp said:

Sept 14, 2014 19:23:14 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Are the reports of him spitting on her accurate? It looks like it on the video. But I wonder. What is the common human reaction when someone has spittle on them? Isn't it to wipe it off? She makes no move to wipe anything off.

Try spitting on a few people and report back to us. 

Well do.

[Tennesseer]

Sept 14, 2014 19:23:14 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 14, 2014 19:03:12 GMT -5 swamp said:

... And spitting on someone is starting it. 

Are the reports of him spitting on her accurate? It looks like it on the video. But I wonder. What is the common human reaction when someone has spittle on them? Isn't it to wipe it off? She makes no move to wipe anything off.

I am quite sure they were more than accustomed to sharing body fluids by that time.  

[swamp]

Sept 14, 2014 19:30:13 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 14, 2014 19:23:14 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Are the reports of him spitting on her accurate? It looks like it on the video. But I wonder. What is the common human reaction when someone has spittle on them? Isn't it to wipe it off? She makes no move to wipe anything off.

I am quite sure they were more than accustomed to sharing body fluids by that time.  

I share fluids with my husband. If he spit on me, on purpose, twice, I'd deck him. And not a little slap. 

ETA:  DH is not a pro football player and not particularly big.  I have no fear of him knocking me out with a punch. 

[Tennesseer]

Sept 14, 2014 19:37:00 GMT -5 swamp said:

Sept 14, 2014 19:30:13 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I am quite sure they were more than accustomed to sharing body fluids by that time.  

I share fluids with my husband. If he spit on me, on purpose, twice, I'd deck him. And not a little slap. 

ETA:  DH is not a pro football player and not particularly big.  I have no fear of him knocking me out with a punch. 

The only thing more insulting and humiliating than spitting on someone in anger and in public is urinating on them after you knock them down in public, IMHO.

I have no problem with this woman slapping her fiance/husband for spitting on her twice. Any reasonable person would accept the slap for their crude actions. Cold-cocking her was just a continuation of him debasing and putting her in her place.

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2014 12:08:31 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

my four cents:

two for the board: other than being with this jerk, and staying with him, i don't see how this woman is in ANY WAY responsible for getting herself knocked out.

two cents for Richard: i advise you not to suggest otherwise. 

I agree that he's responsible for knocking her out (I never said otherwise), however... she is responsible for making that necessary. 

[zibazinski]

OMG. 

[Shooby]

Sept 14, 2014 19:21:59 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Sept 14, 2014 19:00:27 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Richard in TN:
"Yes they do. And they are WRONG to do so.

A bullet fired at you doesn't care if you are male of female.
A river you have to cross doesn't care if you are male or female.
A 20 mile hike doesn't care if you are male or female.
Heck, even the controls in a command bunker don't care if you are male or female."

In hand to hand combat, yeah, physical strength will trump. Sorry you dont' accept that reality. And, if someone breaks in to the home and starts a fight, I think most women would expect their husbands to step up to the plate, not cowering in the corner while mommy tries to take down the burglar. Uh huh.

Except in my case.

Hell hath no fury!

[tallguy]

I agree that he's responsible for knocking her out (I never said otherwise), however... she is responsible for making that necessary.

"Necessary" may be a little strong there, Rich....  

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2014 18:36:02 GMT -5 Shooby said:

BTW, has Ray Rice made some statement somewhere that he thought his very life was in danger and that is WHY he hit her? Sorry, but I must have missed that statement by him. Um, and if he ISN"T saying that, why are some here presuming to say it for him?

I don't believe anyone said his life was in danger. He was being physically attacked. He had every right to take steps to stop that attack.

[swamp]

Sept 14, 2014 19:54:37 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Swamp just said earlier, and as far as I know she's the only lawyer on this thread, that you have a right to defend yourself using equal force. So, if he'd spit on her, she slapped him, and the incident stopped there, would she be potentially facing charges? She wasn't in danger of being hurt by the spittle, it's just disgusting and degrading. She escalated it to physical contact. Who's the bad guy if we take the punch out of the equation.

Yes, she could be charged if it stopped there. A much lower charge, though. 

[swamp]

Sept 14, 2014 20:03:44 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 14, 2014 18:36:02 GMT -5 Shooby said:

BTW, has Ray Rice made some statement somewhere that he thought his very life was in danger and that is WHY he hit her? Sorry, but I must have missed that statement by him. Um, and if he ISN"T saying that, why are some here presuming to say it for him?

I don't believe anyone said his life was in danger. He was being physically attacked. He had every right to take steps to stop that attack.

Yes, but he used more force than necessary. 

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2014 19:00:27 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Richard in TN:
"Yes they do. And they are WRONG to do so.

A bullet fired at you doesn't care if you are male of female.
A river you have to cross doesn't care if you are male or female.
A 20 mile hike doesn't care if you are male or female.
Heck, even the controls in a command bunker don't care if you are male or female."

In hand to hand combat, yeah, physical strength will trump. Sorry you dont' accept that reality. And, if someone breaks in to the home and starts a fight, I think most women would expect their husbands to step up to the plate, not cowering in the corner while mommy tries to take down the burglar. Uh huh.

You said "Even the military recognizes different physical statutes for women, so duh", and my response was in response to the MILITARY aspect of that statement... so what, exactly, do home break ins have to do with it?

[Shooby]

A hand to hand physical fight. That's my point.