Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Sept 5, 2014 17:15:06 GMT -5
Which god? All of them? None of them? Only the current ones? Only the monotheist belief systems? None of our ancestors worshiped the gods that we do know, were all of them bad? Was there no concept of good back then? I find that about as believable as some of the dumber conspiracy theories I see floating around the interwebz.
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Sept 5, 2014 17:21:40 GMT -5
Did you bother to read what I posted?
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Sept 5, 2014 17:24:40 GMT -5
Is there evil or not? If it is relative, then feel free to go about the business of lopping off people's heads because what does it matter?
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Sept 5, 2014 17:30:46 GMT -5
Well, I will wait while you (some guy in his pajamas) goes and changes.
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Sept 5, 2014 17:32:45 GMT -5
And, if you want to put your resume up against Dr. Norman Geisler's in the field of Apologetics and the problem of evil, then by all means!
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,490
|
Post by Tiny on Sept 5, 2014 17:35:33 GMT -5
Oh, OK. "Nothing to do with God" per Scottish Lassie. I guess that ends the discussion. Well, it ends the discussion for some theists. But, the rest of us certainly can go on discussing the 'Problem of Evil'.
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Sept 5, 2014 17:36:09 GMT -5
But, I offered up a good article with real points on the "debate'. And, it is obvious that is going to be yet another waste of time with no real points being offered with a nyah, nyah "some guy in his pajamas" type comments.
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Sept 5, 2014 17:44:01 GMT -5
Oh, OK. "Nothing to do with God" per Scottish Lassie. I guess that ends the discussion. But, I offered up a good article with real points on the "debate'. And, it is obvious that is going to be yet another waste of time with no real points being offered with a nyah, nyah "some guy in his pajamas" type comments. If you don't believe in God (I don't), then nothing in you theist argument matters. If you believe in God, then I could see why it would make sense that evil exists. If you don't, then evil as an inherent quality that actually exists seems equally non-existent. In the end we might as well be discussing whether or not god exists because that is what your argument comes down to. Although I could argue even with the existence of God, evil is relative. Your actions are evil if you are not on God's side or doing his will. The same actions when commanded by God are suddenly good. Which is why you should be able to understand that if you truly thought the 9/11 hijackers were doing god's will, then they & their actions are not evil.
|
|
Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 5, 2014 17:51:40 GMT -5
Really? Rape , murder, beheadings, mass genocide , all just misunderstood I guess. I think most would agree they are evil actions. I just don't think that evil itself exists. It is all relative. From a different viewpoint we could be considered evil. So if evil is not an external thing, or force, would you consider that it's something that lurks in the hearts of men and women?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 10, 2024 14:25:52 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2014 17:54:46 GMT -5
Good and evil are adjectives. They do not exist independent of whatever acts, behaviours, ideas, etc they are describing. They are 100% in the eye of the beholder.
|
|
ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
Community Leader
♡ ♡ BᏋՆᎥᏋᏉᏋ ♡ ♡
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:51 GMT -5
Posts: 43,130
Location: Inside POM's Head
Favorite Drink: Chilled White Zin
|
Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Sept 5, 2014 17:54:47 GMT -5
As I said, evil has existed for thousands and thousands and thousands of years.
I'm not going to get into a religious debate about it here, Shooby- there's a separate board for those discussions and that's why Moon created that board. This is YM-OT. If you want to make reference to current evangelists, or say that good & evil is God's work, I suggest you discuss that on the proper board.
Sociopaths, murderers, torturers, serial killers have existed since the beginning of time.
We just know more about them now, or hear of more instances of evil now, due to the modern age and the media.
Evil in a person is more often than not, due to their chemical or biological makeup, and the way their brain is wired. They lack emotion, a sense of guilt or remorse, or empathy. They simply feel nothing.
I thought you work in the medical field - I may be wrong.
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Sept 5, 2014 17:58:11 GMT -5
Calling religious belief "non rational" shows how irrational your understanding truly is.
|
|
ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
Community Leader
♡ ♡ BᏋՆᎥᏋᏉᏋ ♡ ♡
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:51 GMT -5
Posts: 43,130
Location: Inside POM's Head
Favorite Drink: Chilled White Zin
|
Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Sept 5, 2014 18:04:32 GMT -5
Who are you talking to? Certainly not me... I said nothing like that - nor did I allude to it.
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Sept 5, 2014 18:07:15 GMT -5
I think most would agree they are evil actions. I just don't think that evil itself exists. It is all relative. From a different viewpoint we could be considered evil. So if evil is not an external thing, or force, would you consider that it's something that lurks in the hearts of men and women? Not in my opinion. I think @txsbbtc said it best in that they are adjectives. The view is in the eye of the beholder. I also don't believe in absolute morals. What is wrong to some may be right to others or in specific circumstance. So if there is no absolute right vs wrong, then there can be no absolute good vs evil. I don't think there was something in Charles Manson or any of the others that made them evil, I think they were just nuts with differently wired brains than most of us. Add in different childhood experiences & you can get someone that does things that most would consider evil. But, then I believe in evolution & for the most part we are like machines. Our brains are processing inputs & the synapses dance around & we make decisions based on inputs, the past experiences our brains pull up, & internal stimuli.
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Sept 5, 2014 18:09:30 GMT -5
Calling religious belief "non rational" shows how irrational your understanding truly is. How is it rational? An invisible guy listens when you talk to yourself & shapes your life accordingly (but works in mysterious ways, all part of the plan when bad things happen). Sounds pretty irrational if you aren't brought up being taught that idea. Believe or don't, but I don't think you can argue that it is the rational choice to believe.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 10, 2024 14:25:53 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2014 18:11:04 GMT -5
Calling religious belief "non rational" shows how irrational your understanding truly is. Rational means based on fact and logical defense. Religion is based on belief and faith...
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 10, 2024 14:25:53 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2014 18:14:16 GMT -5
Yeah, I know it's a pretty existential topic, but things have been pretty slow lately.
So, do you really think evil people are in the world, or do you think it's all a matter of perspective? Or do you think that acts and people typically called "evil" are merely the result of mental illness, or differing ideology?
Inquiring minds want to know. I think there are sociopaths, psycopaths and whatever that commit evil acts and I think that people can be led by strong beliefs to commit what I would consider to be evil acts. I also believe evil exists that is different than either of those things. We just try to explain it using what we know about this world, like science.
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,490
|
Post by Tiny on Sept 5, 2014 18:38:23 GMT -5
I think most would agree they are evil actions. I just don't think that evil itself exists. It is all relative. From a different viewpoint we could be considered evil. So if evil is not an external thing, or force, would you consider that it's something that lurks in the hearts of men and women? Well, if you imagine the earth without humans - would good/evil actions still be being made? Would the actions of plants/animals/bacteria/whatever/the universe (via a meteor/comet that hits the earth and does extensive damage) be considered good/evil? I think good and evil are labels that humans assign to actions/happenings depending on their perspective/point of view.
|
|
Artemis Windsong
Senior Associate
The love in me salutes the love in you. M. Williamson
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:32:12 GMT -5
Posts: 12,401
Today's Mood: Twinkling
Location: Wishing Star
Favorite Drink: Fresh, clean cold bottled water.
|
Post by Artemis Windsong on Sept 5, 2014 18:45:53 GMT -5
Yes, evil exists. In fact there is horrid evil on earth; and it is unwise to go seeking it even if exploring the existence of the evil spectrum.
What you are looking for will come to visit.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 10, 2024 14:25:53 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2014 18:57:14 GMT -5
substitute evil for porn and this works for me In 1964, Justice Potter Stewart tried to explain "hard-core" pornography, or what is obscene, by saying, "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced . . . ut I know it when I see it . . .
I do think at some level most of the sane recognize evil when we see it. That doesn't mean we won't try to deny it or rationalize it or pretend it isn't evil.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 10, 2024 14:25:53 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2014 19:00:13 GMT -5
Is there evil or not? If it is relative, then feel free to go about the business of lopping off people's heads because what does it matter? Should they stone them instead? Is that better? ... Or burned to death? I'm pretty sure both of those are in the bible...
|
|
Artemis Windsong
Senior Associate
The love in me salutes the love in you. M. Williamson
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:32:12 GMT -5
Posts: 12,401
Today's Mood: Twinkling
Location: Wishing Star
Favorite Drink: Fresh, clean cold bottled water.
|
Post by Artemis Windsong on Sept 5, 2014 19:12:03 GMT -5
A priest wrote a book titled Deliver Us From Evil. I missed the lecture and book signing. Then a movie came out with the same title. I missed that, too.
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,490
|
Post by Tiny on Sept 5, 2014 19:18:10 GMT -5
substitute evil for porn and this works for me In 1964, Justice Potter Stewart tried to explain "hard-core" pornography, or what is obscene, by saying, "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced . . .ut I know it when I see it . . .
I do think at some level most of the sane recognize evil when we see it. That doesn't mean we won't try to deny it or rationalize it or pretend it isn't evil.
"But I know it when I see it" - exactly - evil is subjective. I don't think anyone is saying that bad things don't happen or that people don't do bad things (often time intentionally). I think the question does 'evil exists' is about something more than do bad things happen and do people do bad things.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 10, 2024 14:25:53 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2014 19:24:23 GMT -5
substitute evil for porn and this works for me In 1964, Justice Potter Stewart tried to explain "hard-core" pornography, or what is obscene, by saying, "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced . . .ut I know it when I see it . . .
I do think at some level most of the sane recognize evil when we see it. That doesn't mean we won't try to deny it or rationalize it or pretend it isn't evil.
"But I know it when I see it" - exactly - evil is subjective. I don't think anyone is saying that bad things don't happen or that people don't do bad things (often time intentionally). I think the question does 'evil exists' is about something more than do bad things happen and do people do bad things. I don't think it's that subjective. I think we know it when we see it at just by being human. I think our naming it as evil is subjective.
|
|
NastyWoman
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 20:50:37 GMT -5
Posts: 14,877
|
Post by NastyWoman on Sept 5, 2014 20:29:56 GMT -5
Yes, and now we see kids doing this too. " I killed someone because I wanted to see someone die. " how do you FIX this. I compare them to rabid dogs. Society is better off without them. -note-I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die ...Folsom Prison Blues - Johnny Cash 1955 and while just a song do you really that this is new today and it was not going on in 1955 and before or after Sean, while you had many of your points for the the reason Hitler and his cromies had a chance to literally start WWII and kill millions of people, (for once?) NATO was innocent of this: it was not founded until 1949. Also, why do we never mention the Japanese atrocities in WWII when these discussions come up? Where they less evil because they were mostly commited against other Asian nations/people? And Shooby, never mind whether your "God is good" argument stands -> we are dealing with humans and they have fought so many wars and killed so many people in the name of their deity (I am with Shaun here on the "which god" issue) that one could make an argument that even "good" may be a root of "evil"
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,490
|
Post by Tiny on Sept 5, 2014 20:36:01 GMT -5
“If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”
― Aleksander Solzhenitsyn
Good and Evil as part of human nature?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 10, 2024 14:25:53 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2014 20:37:28 GMT -5
“If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” ― Aleksander Solzhenitsyn Good and Evil as part of human nature? For sure
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Sept 5, 2014 21:02:15 GMT -5
Japanese atrocities are rarely mentioned because many aren't very educated on the subject. I had to Google it and honestly never learned much of that in school. Now you could argue abouy why schools aren't teaching it and if it has to with west vs east and white vs non-white. We definitely tend to focus more on European history than anything as far as I can recall.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Sept 5, 2014 21:05:49 GMT -5
I don't think it's necessarily about evil, per se. I think some people are just "missing something". Their brains don't work properly and we don't know precisely why. They're unable to grasp the concept of empathy. Most can fake it, since they see it as a desirable attribute in the view of others, but they don't feel it. That lack allows them to do things the rest of us wouldn't even consider - things that, for us, are despicable.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Sept 5, 2014 21:11:18 GMT -5
Some of us don't believe in God, Shooby. You do. That's wonderful for you and something to which you're certainly entitled. What you're not entitled to do is foist it off on those of us who don't buy in.
|
|