Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 5, 2014 9:22:08 GMT -5
Yeah, I know it's a pretty existential topic, but things have been pretty slow lately.
So, do you really think evil people are in the world, or do you think it's all a matter of perspective? Or do you think that acts and people typically called "evil" are merely the result of mental illness, or differing ideology?
Inquiring minds want to know.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 5, 2014 9:24:13 GMT -5
Charles Manson comes to mind. As does Hitler, Stalin, and others.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Sept 5, 2014 10:02:41 GMT -5
To add to the list ....... the idiot that killed an 8 yr old girl in NW Arizona last Monday night.
People that kill for the sheer joy of seeing a life end.
People that harm for the sheer joy of seeing the pain.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 5, 2014 10:13:23 GMT -5
Yes, and now we see kids doing this too. " I killed someone because I wanted to see someone die. " how do you FIX this. I compare them to rabid dogs. Society is better off without them.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Sept 5, 2014 10:16:46 GMT -5
I don't think that the religious idea of evil (what I know about it) exists.
I do think that some people have a personality disorder (sociopathic, psychopathic) which causes them to perform evil acts. Whether these personality disorders are caused by brain chemistry, injury, or something else, I have no idea.
I also think that otherwise good people can do evil things. The difference between these people and sociopaths/psychopaths is that they feel remorse for their actions. IMO the total lack of remorse is what makes someone truly evil.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 5, 2014 10:17:06 GMT -5
Yes, evil exists. No question in my mind.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Sept 5, 2014 10:17:44 GMT -5
I think evil exists like dark exists. Dark isn't real, it's just the absence of light. Evil is just the absence of good.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 5, 2014 10:22:15 GMT -5
Yeah, I know it's a pretty existential topic, but things have been pretty slow lately.
So, do you really think evil people are in the world, or do you think it's all a matter of perspective? Or do you think that acts and people typically called "evil" are merely the result of mental illness, or differing ideology?
Inquiring minds want to know. To further discuss your post, I do think it's a mtter of perspective. What I may think is pure evil may not be bad to someone else.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Sept 5, 2014 10:35:59 GMT -5
No.
I think the connotation of 'evil' suggests that there is something 'beyond' ourselves... and I don't believe that, either. I like Sam's interpretation.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Sept 5, 2014 11:14:05 GMT -5
I think evil exists like dark exists. Dark isn't real, it's just the absence of light. Evil is just the absence of good. Dang- who knew we had a philosopher in our midst.
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on Sept 5, 2014 11:21:17 GMT -5
If evil is the devil/Satan going around trying to tempt people with riches beyond the sky and all they must do is sell their soul to the devil...no, I don't believe it.
If evil is the opposite of goodness, yes, I believe it. Or you could say,evil is the absence of goodness.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 5, 2014 11:43:06 GMT -5
I am not a religious fellow, so I do not believe evil exists.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 5, 2014 11:46:01 GMT -5
Yes, and now we see kids doing this too. " I killed someone because I wanted to see someone die. " how do you FIX this. I compare them to rabid dogs. Society is better off without them. What do you mean? Do you have specific examples of kids doing this?
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 5, 2014 11:47:33 GMT -5
Evil is all a matter of perspective. Most of us have pretty similar perspectives on what is good & what is evil. But, I don't believe there are absolute morals, everything is relative & a matter of perspective.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 5, 2014 11:47:45 GMT -5
To add to the list ....... the idiot that killed an 8 yr old girl in NW Arizona last Monday night.
People that kill for the sheer joy of seeing a life end.
People that harm for the sheer joy of seeing the pain.
Some would argue that it's some sort of brain or psychological disorder, not specifically that the person is "evil."
As regards to Stalin, Hitler ect, others might argue that's it's different ideology.
I'm not saying I agree with that, but that's what I'm asking you guys.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2014 11:49:58 GMT -5
Absolutely it exists. The thing is that people that are evil don't care about the harm they do others. They MIGHT care about being called evil, but only in the way of being outraged that someone would criticize them.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 5, 2014 11:51:03 GMT -5
I think evil exists like dark exists. Dark isn't real, it's just the absence of light. Evil is just the absence of good. Interesting statement, but if we're going to define evil, I guess we have to define good.
So I postulate to you, if evil is the absence of good, then is good the absence of evil? Can someone be a good person and do an evil act?
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 5, 2014 11:52:21 GMT -5
To add to the list ....... the idiot that killed an 8 yr old girl in NW Arizona last Monday night.
People that kill for the sheer joy of seeing a life end.
People that harm for the sheer joy of seeing the pain.
Some would argue that it's some sort of brain or psychological disorder, not specifically that the person is "evil."
As regards to Stalin, Hitler ect, others might argue that's it's different ideology.
I'm not saying I agree with that, but that's what I'm asking you guys.
I would agree with those people. Take for example the terrorists that knocked down the twin tower. We heard them called evil & cowards. But imagine you agree with their entire ideology. From that perspective they are heros & brave. Then sociopaths have their brains wired differently. They are in the minority & morals are determined by the majority.
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 5, 2014 11:55:43 GMT -5
Evil exists.
And unfortunately, it's not just the absence of good. The absence of good results in apathy. IMHO, true evil requires not just lack of good intent, it requires bad or harmful intent.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 5, 2014 12:00:14 GMT -5
Evil exists.
And unfortunately, it's not just the absence of good. The absence of good results in apathy. IMHO, true evil requires not just lack of good intent, it requires bad or harmful intent. That's what I've always thought.
The opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. To me, evil represents a conscious effort. It takes effort to hate someone.
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 5, 2014 12:01:04 GMT -5
Yes, sociopaths do have differently wired brains, but there's big difference between feeling certain things (or not feeling certain things) and actually acting on those feelings.
IMHO, a person can have the lack of feeling and empathy that appears to be hard wired in the brain of a sociopath but choose not to act on those things - so that person is not evil. A person who has been taught better or who has enough experience of interacting with others and still chooses to act with lack of feeling or empathy is evil.
A minor example of that was the discussion about the YouTube video of the dead body. As I explained to Hoops, I personally wouldn't be offended if my dead body or my DH's dead body was put on YouTube like that, because I don't have those feelings about a body. To me, it's an empty shell and the "person" is gone. But I understand from interacting with other people, that others feel very differently. So although I don't have those feelings, I understand them in others and choose to act in a way that honors their feelings. To stretch the analogy, I may have the lack of feeling of a sociopath on this issue, but I can make the choice to not act in a hurtful manner. Evil people know their actions aren't acceptable or are hurtful but still choose to take the action anyway, sometimes specifically because the action is hurtful.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Sept 5, 2014 12:04:34 GMT -5
In my opinion, evil exists. I think that the people that knocked down the Towers were sociopaths. Evil exists in all categories of humans, regardless of nationality, religion, etc. So, Hitler, Stalin, Mao ( who holds the record for killing the most people ), the terrorists that struck down the World Trade Center and other deeds, the people who proudly stand and cut off prisoners' heads, the torturers, the rapists, molesters, etc., are all forms of sociopathic evil spawn. They've just latched onto different justifications, such as religion, needing information, reformation of the world, etc., but they're still just sociopathic scum to me.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Sept 5, 2014 12:05:27 GMT -5
Yes, and now we see kids doing this too. " I killed someone because I wanted to see someone die. " how do you FIX this. I compare them to rabid dogs. Society is better off without them. I think it's normal for young kids to experiment with this. I fried ants with magnifying glasses and some wicked sunshine when I was a kid and I'm no sociopath. I think at a certain point you start to understand what it means to 'die' and how that can happen. Just like babies and young children learn that hurting other people is mean/wrong. It's something they have to grow to understand... and grow out of it. Obviously 13 year olds drowning puppies is not normal, but smooshing bugs and stuff when you're a young kid IS.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Sept 5, 2014 12:10:50 GMT -5
I don't think that the religious idea of evil (what I know about it) exists. I do think that some people have a personality disorder (sociopathic, psychopathic) which causes them to perform evil acts. Whether these personality disorders are caused by brain chemistry, injury, or something else, I have no idea. I also think that otherwise good people can do evil things. The difference between these people and sociopaths/psychopaths is that they feel remorse for their actions. IMO the total lack of remorse is what makes someone truly evil. Yeah this. From the 'spiritual' or 'religious' sense of good/evil: I don't think "good" or "evil" are somehow personified - there isn't some Big Bad or some Big Good influencing human behavior. I don't think humans (or animals or minerals or vegetables - ie everything else) are spiritually intrinsically 'good' and then some how get corrupted to 'bad' or visa versa. We are what we are (along the lines of what MidJD outlined above). In the big picture I think evil and good are subjective. If you take a step back and just go with 'good' or 'bad' - or maybe fortunate/unfortunate - I'm very fond of the idea of 'duality' - something good/fortunate for me, may be be bad/unfortunate for you. Maybe it's ultimately Time that creates/controls/dictates/enforces this kind of duality - only one outcome can happen or maybe more of a "lost opportunity" kinda thing.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Sept 5, 2014 12:16:03 GMT -5
Evil exists.
And unfortunately, it's not just the absence of good. The absence of good results in apathy. IMHO, true evil requires not just lack of good intent, it requires bad or harmful intent. That's what I've always thought.
The opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. To me, evil represents a conscious effort. It takes effort to hate someone.
But is the emotion of "hate" really evil? Maybe when you "hate" someone and go out of your way to make that person's life miserable OR when the "hate" causes you to be not the best person you can be... but what if "hate" of something causes you to seek justice or to right a wrong or because it's such a strong emotion and you channel it in a productive (for you way) it helps make you a better person?
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 5, 2014 12:30:45 GMT -5
Yes, and now we see kids doing this too. " I killed someone because I wanted to see someone die. " how do you FIX this. I compare them to rabid dogs. Society is better off without them. What do you mean? Do you have specific examples of kids doing this? www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/weird/kids2/index_1.htmlThis covers a wide range of cases and proves this is not a recent phenomenon. Some of the cases are summarized with some pretty key points left out. I've read more detailed accounts of a few of the cases and all the facts involved are even more disturbing. ETA - The Smithsonian magazine actually did an extensive article on this subject a few years back, but I can't remember exactly when.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Sept 5, 2014 13:28:46 GMT -5
I think evil exists like dark exists. Dark isn't real, it's just the absence of light. Evil is just the absence of good. Interesting statement, but if we're going to define evil, I guess we have to define good.
So I postulate to you, if evil is the absence of good, then is good the absence of evil? Can someone be a good person and do an evil act?
I think good people take evil actions all the time - with the intent/expectation of 'doing/having done good'. If you go with the traditional meanings of good and evil - the 'good' person will have rationalized the things they do as "good". They certainly do not take the 'evil' action with the fore thought "I'm doing something evil". Maybe after the action has been taken and they reflect on the outcome they may feel remorse especially if their convictions (or culture/society) have changed. This would have to be on the individual level... once you add in 'authority' or 'peer pressure' as part of what's fueling the person's actions it gets hazy... See Milgram's Experiment.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 5, 2014 13:34:36 GMT -5
Yes, sociopaths do have differently wired brains, but there's big difference between feeling certain things (or not feeling certain things) and actually acting on those feelings.
IMHO, a person can have the lack of feeling and empathy that appears to be hard wired in the brain of a sociopath but choose not to act on those things - so that person is not evil. A person who has been taught better or who has enough experience of interacting with others and still chooses to act with lack of feeling or empathy is evil.
A minor example of that was the discussion about the YouTube video of the dead body. As I explained to Hoops, I personally wouldn't be offended if my dead body or my DH's dead body was put on YouTube like that, because I don't have those feelings about a body. To me, it's an empty shell and the "person" is gone. But I understand from interacting with other people, that others feel very differently. So although I don't have those feelings, I understand them in others and choose to act in a way that honors their feelings. To stretch the analogy, I may have the lack of feeling of a sociopath on this issue, but I can make the choice to not act in a hurtful manner. Evil people know their actions aren't acceptable or are hurtful but still choose to take the action anyway, sometimes specifically because the action is hurtful.
So... you plan on not hurting others by ensuring your dead body isn't posted on youtube?
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 5, 2014 13:34:45 GMT -5
Yes, sociopaths do have differently wired brains, but there's big difference between feeling certain things (or not feeling certain things) and actually acting on those feelings.
IMHO, a person can have the lack of feeling and empathy that appears to be hard wired in the brain of a sociopath but choose not to act on those things - so that person is not evil. A person who has been taught better or who has enough experience of interacting with others and still chooses to act with lack of feeling or empathy is evil.
A minor example of that was the discussion about the YouTube video of the dead body. As I explained to Hoops, I personally wouldn't be offended if my dead body or my DH's dead body was put on YouTube like that, because I don't have those feelings about a body. To me, it's an empty shell and the "person" is gone. But I understand from interacting with other people, that others feel very differently. So although I don't have those feelings, I understand them in others and choose to act in a way that honors their feelings. To stretch the analogy, I may have the lack of feeling of a sociopath on this issue, but I can make the choice to not act in a hurtful manner. Evil people know their actions aren't acceptable or are hurtful but still choose to take the action anyway, sometimes specifically because the action is hurtful.
Yes, but you have empathy & therefore care how others feel. A sociopath doesn't have empathy for others. So why they may realize how their actions will affect someone, they don't give a crap. That goes back into the brain just being wired differently. Kind of like most of us would never commit murder because we just consider it wrong & would never want to do that to another person. My understanding is that most sociopaths don't commit murder because they don't want to go to jail. They understand society considers it wrong & are concerned with the repercussions of that choice for themselves. And I seriously doubt the twin tower terrorists were sociopaths. I don't think sociopaths would kill themselves for some greater good even if they believed in the cause.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Sept 5, 2014 13:38:00 GMT -5
Harsh. I mean, I know I can be an asshole, but damn.
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