mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 5, 2014 19:32:00 GMT -5
I was in grade school when those two words were added. I wouldn't say them then, and I still don't. Of course, I haven't said the pledge in many, many years.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2014 19:32:48 GMT -5
I agree. I just think that its worth noting it was. Very socialist / communist in practice, idea from the beginning...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2014 19:33:17 GMT -5
I was a devout Christian when I learned the Pledge... and I still knew it was wrong for them to be in there. I never said them either.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 5, 2014 20:55:24 GMT -5
you know the history of that, right? the Pledge was not written with that phrase. I missed this yesterday. But that has since changed and it's the one I use when saying it. I'm pretty sure your issue isn't with anything I have said but just in case you have misunderstood my prior comment when quoting you I was not disappointed that you didn't say the pledge. I was disappointed that you wanted it gone completely. I was stating why I like it and like to say it and was trying to answer your questions because I know you are very interested in what I think because I'm incredibly brilliant and profound. thanks for expressing your brilliance.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 5, 2014 21:05:50 GMT -5
There is an ORDER to meetings. Part of that is the Pledge. He could have stood up silently. He could have gotten up and left the room too. they all should have left the room, and mr whitey tighty could say it his bad old self.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 5, 2014 21:18:29 GMT -5
There is an ORDER to meetings on communist countries too. Part of that is ALWAYS some pledge to their communist government, party, or leader. Americans pledging allegiance to a symbol is kind of freaky honestly. seriously. order is so overrated.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Sept 6, 2014 1:35:41 GMT -5
I was in grade school when those two words were added. I wouldn't say them then, and I still don't. Of course, I haven't said the pledge in many, many years. We say it at our Condo meetings..also VFW meetings..I have to admit that I always forget the two words ..wearn't brought up with them and can't seem to remember where they go..It's ok because I don't think they needed to be added ..seems to be a zinger against those who might not believe .....
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Sept 6, 2014 1:38:05 GMT -5
There is an ORDER to meetings on communist countries too. Part of that is ALWAYS some pledge to their communist government, party, or leader. Americans pledging allegiance to a symbol is kind of freaky honestly. seriously. order is so overrated. Don't believe there are that many countries still with Communist forms of government..Cuba and the Peoples Republic are two that come to mind..Is North Korea considered a Communist State today..??
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Post by b2r on Sept 6, 2014 2:26:55 GMT -5
Yeah...I won't sing that star spangled banner song either man...they can shorten it all they want, I know how it really ends! Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand Between their loved home and the war's desolation! Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation. Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just, And this be our motto: "In God is our trust." And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave! And money, man...don't get me started, In God We Trust?...I won't touch it. I deal strictly in bitcoins!
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Post by Shooby on Sept 6, 2014 8:09:18 GMT -5
Well, as we tear down institutions and tradition and honor and respect, you get what you are seeing.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Sept 6, 2014 8:19:33 GMT -5
Doesn't matter WHY it was added. It was (and is) unconstitutional. Not interested in debating whether it is or not but the statement insinuating that it is "unconstitutional "...this isn't the first such statement that something is "unconstitutional " yadda , yadda.. When ever I read such posts where ever I have to wonder if so, especially something like this which has been the norm since Eisenhower..plenty of time to have a legal case brought against it...work it's way up the judicial ladder to get a final ruling from the SCOTUS yet it is still here ...{ If a case is in the works please let me know ..and I will delete my remarks..} I have to think the statement of something being "unconstitutional " is a bit over used ..like by a ton...Just my opinion here...
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Sept 6, 2014 8:27:35 GMT -5
I stand up for the blood of soldiers who's coffins were draped with this very flag. If u want to sit on your arse and have a snit and then pat yourself on the back for " standing for something" please excuse me while I stand.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Sept 6, 2014 8:55:52 GMT -5
I stand up for the blood of soldiers who's coffins were draped with this very flag. If u want to sit on your arse and have a snit and then pat yourself on the back for " standing for something" please excuse me while I stand. I am with you Shooby and you reminded me of a special movie I saw a while back..I missed it when it first came out in 2009..it was a HBO movie and I don't believe I had HBO back then...It is a true story..and according to reviews it follows the original almost to a tee....To be honest it was the most emotional , for me, movie I have ever seen ..In fact my daughter came down to Florida about a month ago to visit the old man..she was a bit worried ..and we checked into a fancy Boca four star on the beach for three days..just the two of us where we talked , visited , ate great and just hung out and in one of the hanging outs over a brunch I told her about the movie I had seen recently and for the life of me I couldn't stop tearing up as I discused it, as much as I tried..she snuck me a napkin, LOL.....suggesting she and her other and the kids watch it.. "Taking Chance " is the name of the movie..I highly recommend it for all folks actually......it also is about a symbol and I would love to have some who are so against symbols watch it and then tell me there is nothing to it..possible they could and not be affected..possible it was just me..Actually it was given 7.5 stars..I gave it a 12....so it could just be me... www.imdb.com/title/tt1019454/
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 6, 2014 10:37:41 GMT -5
seriously. order is so overrated. Don't believe there are that many countries still with Communist forms of government..Cuba and the Peoples Republic are two that come to mind..Is North Korea considered a Communist State today..?? yep. glad to see we agree on something.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 6, 2014 10:39:08 GMT -5
Yeah...I won't sing that star spangled banner song either man...they can shorten it all they want, I know how it really ends! Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand Between their loved home and the war's desolation! Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation. Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just, And this be our motto: "In God is our trust." And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave! And money, man...don't get me started, In God We Trust?...I won't touch it. I deal strictly in bitcoins! never been a big fan of the Star Spangled Banner. but i think America The Beautiful rocks. and i rarely use cash.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 6, 2014 10:41:11 GMT -5
I stand up for the blood of soldiers who's coffins were draped with this very flag. If u want to sit on your arse and have a snit and then pat yourself on the back for " standing for something" please excuse me while I stand. i have nothing against you standing, Shooby. you can worship the flag if you like. the first amendment protects that, too.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 6, 2014 10:47:25 GMT -5
I stand up for the blood of soldiers who's coffins were draped with this very flag. If u want to sit on your arse and have a snit and then pat yourself on the back for " standing for something" please excuse me while I stand. I am with you Shooby and you reminded me of a special movie I saw a while back..I missed it when it first came out in 2009..it was a HBO movie and I don't believe I had HBO back then...It is a true story..and according to reviews it follows the original almost to a tee....To be honest it was the most emotional , for me, movie I have ever seen ..In fact my daughter came down to Florida about a month ago to visit the old man..she was a bit worried ..and we checked into a fancy Boca four star on the beach for three days..just the two of us where we talked , visited , ate great and just hung out and in one of the hanging outs over a brunch I told her about the movie I had seen recently and for the life of me I couldn't stop tearing up as I discused it, as much as I tried..she snuck me a napkin, LOL.....suggesting she and her other and the kids watch it.. "Taking Chance " is the name of the movie..I highly recommend it for all folks actually......it also is about a symbol and I would love to have some who are so against symbols watch it and then tell me there is nothing to it..possible they could and not be affected..possible it was just me..Actually it was given 7.5 stars..I gave it a 12....so it could just be me... www.imdb.com/title/tt1019454/i'd watch it, but it seems like you are trying to get me to say that there is no reason for military honor- and no reason that those that serve should respect the flag. i am not prepared to make that case. i can think of lots of reasons for those that are willing to sacrifice their lives for a nation to place special value in symbols of that nation. of course, this is true for all nations military(s), and most religions, as well. i would, however, debate whether this fact is a good thing or not. when people get so wrapped up in their symbols that they would wish another person ill who does not subscribe to their significance, i think we have a serious problem. symbols should never be placed above people, imo. but yeah, that is just liberal me, i guess. in short, i think it is fine for symbols to have meaning. i just think it is strange (and against the first commandment, truthfully) when they pledge themselves to symbols, or treat them as if they are the embodiment of that which they worship or believe in.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Sept 6, 2014 11:05:10 GMT -5
I stand up for the blood of soldiers who's coffins were draped with this very flag. If u want to sit on your arse and have a snit and then pat yourself on the back for " standing for something" please excuse me while I stand.
you can worship the flag if you like.
I don't worship the flag but I do honor and respect what it stands for. I follow the First Commandment.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 6, 2014 11:09:01 GMT -5
Why, may I ask, does someone have to stand up to honor and respect something? I honor and respect a number of things and I'm able to do so sitting down. I really can't see the need to put on a show about it. MOO
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2014 11:09:58 GMT -5
I honor and respect this country and those who fight in good faith for this country.
Part of the reason why is that, in this country, no one has the authority to decide how I personally will feel and believe or how I will represent my feelings/beliefs.
I much prefer quiet moments of thought and reflection over recitations to inanimate objects... To each his own.
The he man in the OP should have been left to his own...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 6, 2014 11:54:03 GMT -5
I stand up for the blood of soldiers who's coffins were draped with this very flag. If u want to sit on your arse and have a snit and then pat yourself on the back for " standing for something" please excuse me while I stand.
you can worship the flag if you like.
I don't worship the flag but I do honor and respect what it stands for. I follow the First Commandment.
sesfw: i wasn't implying that those that honor the flag worship it. what i was saying is that the first Amendment defends your right to do so. and it protects your right to worship a golden idol, as well. i don't think most people "worship" the flag, but i think many regard it with a "reverence" that borders on idolatry.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 6, 2014 12:00:24 GMT -5
I honor and respect this country and those who fight in good faith for this country. Part of the reason why is that, in this country, no one has the authority to decide how I personally will feel and believe or how I will represent my feelings/beliefs. i had a friend tell me once "you give up too much in negotiation". i have been mindful of that since then.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2014 12:04:19 GMT -5
I like the flag, parades, National anthem, all that stuff, because to me it feels uniting. If it does not feel that way to others and they don't want to participate I'm good with that. I don't think he should have been kicked out.
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Post by EVT1 on Sept 6, 2014 13:27:22 GMT -5
Why, may I ask, does someone have to stand up to honor and respect something? I honor and respect a number of things and I'm able to do so sitting down. I really can't see the need to put on a show about it. MOO Kind of my take on going to church
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 6, 2014 13:38:09 GMT -5
Why, may I ask, does someone have to stand up to honor and respect something? I honor and respect a number of things and I'm able to do so sitting down. I really can't see the need to put on a show about it. MOO Kind of my take on going to church In some cases I've seen, that's a very astute "take".
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Sept 6, 2014 15:09:17 GMT -5
I am with you Shooby and you reminded me of a special movie I saw a while back..I missed it when it first came out in 2009..it was a HBO movie and I don't believe I had HBO back then...It is a true story..and according to reviews it follows the original almost to a tee....To be honest it was the most emotional , for me, movie I have ever seen ..In fact my daughter came down to Florida about a month ago to visit the old man..she was a bit worried ..and we checked into a fancy Boca four star on the beach for three days..just the two of us where we talked , visited , ate great and just hung out and in one of the hanging outs over a brunch I told her about the movie I had seen recently and for the life of me I couldn't stop tearing up as I discused it, as much as I tried..she snuck me a napkin, LOL.....suggesting she and her other and the kids watch it.. "Taking Chance " is the name of the movie..I highly recommend it for all folks actually......it also is about a symbol and I would love to have some who are so against symbols watch it and then tell me there is nothing to it..possible they could and not be affected..possible it was just me..Actually it was given 7.5 stars..I gave it a 12....so it could just be me... www.imdb.com/title/tt1019454/i'd watch it, but it seems like you are trying to get me to say that there is no reason for military honor- and no reason that those that serve should respect the flag. i am not prepared to make that case. i can think of lots of reasons for those that are willing to sacrifice their lives for a nation to place special value in symbols of that nation. of course, this is true for all nations military(s), and most religions, as well. i would, however, debate whether this fact is a good thing or not. when people get so wrapped up in their symbols that they would wish another person ill who does not subscribe to their significance, i think we have a serious problem. symbols should never be placed above people, imo. but yeah, that is just liberal me, i guess. in short, i think it is fine for symbols to have meaning. i just think it is strange (and against the first commandment, truthfully) when they pledge themselves to symbols, or treat them as if they are the embodiment of that which they worship or believe in. Nope, your wrong though you don't have to believe that..means little to me..Not trying to get you to do or say squat...not asking you to make any case,...The words I posted are what they are...Believe you, others just might just get a feel for what we are discussing but will admit, not really knowing you/ others beyond your/their posts here and unable to get a read on your body language posssible you would get little from the flick...as I said possible it was just me..I did get very emotional watching it and surprising it came on again just by discussing it which is not like me...but as I said..it's possible just me...Don't want to watch it, your business...It was just a suggestion....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2014 19:35:04 GMT -5
Doesn't matter WHY it was added. It was (and is) unconstitutional. Not interested in debating whether it is or not but the statement insinuating that it is "unconstitutional "...this isn't the first such statement that something is "unconstitutional " yadda , yadda.. When ever I read such posts where ever I have to wonder if so, especially something like this which has been the norm since Eisenhower..plenty of time to have a legal case brought against it...work it's way up the judicial ladder to get a final ruling from the SCOTUS yet it is still here ...{ If a case is in the works please let me know ..and I will delete my remarks..} I have to think the statement of something being "unconstitutional " is a bit over used ..like by a ton...Just my opinion here... It's getting "overused" so much because as time goes on there's more and more that IS unconstitutional. Obviously it would get more use because of that. Worthy of note: Something doesn't have to "be ruled unconstitutional by the SCOTUS" to BE unconstitutional. Them ruling something unconstitutional just invalidates it as a law. Something is actually unconstitutional if it is in violation of the Constitution... whether SCOTUS has ruled on it... or not.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 6, 2014 19:43:13 GMT -5
i'd watch it, but it seems like you are trying to get me to say that there is no reason for military honor- and no reason that those that serve should respect the flag. i am not prepared to make that case. i can think of lots of reasons for those that are willing to sacrifice their lives for a nation to place special value in symbols of that nation. of course, this is true for all nations military(s), and most religions, as well. i would, however, debate whether this fact is a good thing or not. when people get so wrapped up in their symbols that they would wish another person ill who does not subscribe to their significance, i think we have a serious problem. symbols should never be placed above people, imo. but yeah, that is just liberal me, i guess. in short, i think it is fine for symbols to have meaning. i just think it is strange (and against the first commandment, truthfully) when they pledge themselves to symbols, or treat them as if they are the embodiment of that which they worship or believe in. Nope, your wrong though you don't have to believe that..means little to me..Not trying to get you to do or say squat...not asking you to make any case,...The words I posted are what they are...Believe you, others just might just get a feel for what we are discussing but will admit, not really knowing you/ others beyond your/their posts here and unable to get a read on your body language posssible you would get little from the flick...as I said possible it was just me..I did get very emotional watching it and surprising it came on again just by discussing it which is not like me...but as I said..it's possible just me...Don't want to watch it, your business...It was just a suggestion.... what is it you think i don't understand, dez? that the flag is significant to you? that it bugs the hell out of you when you think others are disrespecting it? that you think it is an insult to you and other patriotic servicepeople when others won't stand up and salute the flag? that you and others sob while pledging your allegiance? that you think those of us that don't are disrespecting you and our nation? or is it something else, altogether? for the record, i don't watch dramas or historical stuff. i am a documentary junkie. i saw this one recently: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation:_Dreamlandmade me cry. i am not much into paid actors bringing that out of me. but to each their own, right?
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Sept 6, 2014 20:02:57 GMT -5
Why, may I ask, does someone have to stand up to honor and respect something? I honor and respect a number of things and I'm able to do so sitting down. I really can't see the need to put on a show about it. MOO I am surprised that you answered as you did..not going to or want to make a big thing about it...with out much thinking , what just came to my mind is the habit, procedure of all standing when a judge enters a court room ..no thought given , just done...I believe it's done in " respect of "...also thinking of how people in uniform salute one another if in uniform and in the right place ..{ some branches do not salute indoors..others do..naturally never on the battlefield exposed to enemy forces..} also done as a form of respect to the office... Just saying and surprised at your answer thats all..nothing more then that...
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Sept 6, 2014 20:09:17 GMT -5
Not interested in debating whether it is or not but the statement insinuating that it is "unconstitutional "...this isn't the first such statement that something is "unconstitutional " yadda , yadda.. When ever I read such posts where ever I have to wonder if so, especially something like this which has been the norm since Eisenhower..plenty of time to have a legal case brought against it...work it's way up the judicial ladder to get a final ruling from the SCOTUS yet it is still here ...{ If a case is in the works please let me know ..and I will delete my remarks..} I have to think the statement of something being "unconstitutional " is a bit over used ..like by a ton...Just my opinion here... It's getting "overused" so much because as time goes on there's more and more that IS unconstitutional. Obviously it would get more use because of that. Worthy of note: Something doesn't have to "be ruled unconstitutional by the SCOTUS" to BE unconstitutional. Them ruling something unconstitutional just invalidates it as a law. Something is actually unconstitutional if it is in violation of the Constitution... whether SCOTUS has ruled on it... or not. wow there pardner, lets back up a bit here..your saying something, a ruling, a law can be unconstitutional just because some one says it is..believes it is..someone who has no authority to make such a ruling...? Me for example..I don't like it I can just declare and have it binding if I just say so..it , what ever it is , is unconstitutional and thats the way it is..no questions asked..? Wow..I never knew I had such authority or powers ..thanks...{Holy Sh*t got to think this over a bit...got some rulings to do here..whew...wow..}
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