djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,131
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 2, 2014 10:56:14 GMT -5
let me just ask you a quick question or two, Paul. the answers will probably clear everything up for me; if this really is a Holy War, as you seem to believe, then why is the most populous Muslim nation on Earth a US Ally, with whom we have had close relations since the 70's? why would they have ANY relations with us? why would they not be AT WAR with us? and why has their resolve to remain an ally been unchanged since 911?We need oil. They need the money to fund Jihad. This is not theory, btw- I've actually he[ard it said directly from a Muslim cleric in person- his lips to my ears: "God gave us this oil, so we may use it to bring the world under sharia". They don't attack us directly, but through their oil-money funded madrases and radical mosques. having read Sleeping With The Devil, i am quite aware of all of that. in that book, Baer calls Washington DC a "company town" for ARAMCO. it is a rather interesting, macabre, and chilling way of putting it. but it also speaks volumes to the hopelessness of ending it.The problem with the world-wide religious holy war we're in is that most of the west, and in particular America doesn't realize it is well underway. The ISIS, al-Qaeda, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah types aren't coming to America- they're here. There are formal in informal 'sleeper cells' in waiting to respond as ordered, or as opportunity permits. They're scattered throughout the United States- some are in the highest levels of government. Others are police, firefighters, military, airline pilots, gang members, cab drivers, computer programmers-- and they look as American / western as you and I. They are, like Mohammad Atta and crew, waiting to respond as terrorist cells against this nation. They aren't the KKK. They aren't just a 'few'. They are radical sects, 200 million strong, and they believe they have a command from God to kill infidels- especially Christians and Jews. Most people don't realize that there are deep seeded cultural differences between our western, Judeo-Christian way of life and even 'moderate muslims'. In an all-out holy war-- say after a nuclear attack on NYC, DC, Chicago, and LA plunges the country into years of darkness- there wouldn't be a functioning electronic anything anywhere for YEARS, we can't automatically trust or rely on the moderate muslims to do the right thing. Many moderate muslims are turned off by our liberal democratic politics, and permissive culture. It will be easy to sway them that it is their religious duty to oppose us. We are ‘infidels’ and there is nothing you can do to accommodate them. That’s what makes them so dangerous. And I do believe that moderate muslims need to fully assimilate, and one of the best ways they can do that is to speak out. How else are we going to know who to trust? Are we supposed to just assume in the middle of the mother of all terrorist attacks still to come- a nuclear strike, and/or EMP- that the 'moderate' muslims among us won't turn on us to save their own hides, or out of sympathy for them movement? you didn't answer even ONE portion of my question, Paul. would you care to try again? edit: i changed the color, if that helps you see it.......
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,131
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 2, 2014 10:57:19 GMT -5
So, one could be a NAZI- believing that the Aryian - Germanic people are genetically superior to all other people, but not be for the extermination of all other people? And you would buy this bullshit from them when the chips are down? would you buy it from them when the chips are not down?
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,499
|
Post by Tennesseer on Sept 2, 2014 11:02:04 GMT -5
We need oil. They need the money to fund Jihad. This is not theory, btw- I've actually he[ard it said directly from a Muslim cleric in person- his lips to my ears: "God gave us this oil, so we may use it to bring the world under sharia". They don't attack us directly, but through their oil-money funded madrases and radical mosques. This goes right up there with the 'I was swept up the coast by a rip current for six miles, swam to shore, walked back six miles to my car and then remembered all my stuff was still at the beach so I walked back a mile to the beach to get my stuff and then walked back one mile to the car' story. Hard to believe.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,131
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 2, 2014 11:05:26 GMT -5
We need oil. They need the money to fund Jihad. This is not theory, btw- I've actually he[ard it said directly from a Muslim cleric in person- his lips to my ears: "God gave us this oil, so we may use it to bring the world under sharia". They don't attack us directly, but through their oil-money funded madrases and radical mosques. This goes right up there with the 'I was swept up the coast by a rip current for six miles, swam to shore, walked back six miles to my car and then remembered all my stuff was still at the beach so I walked back a mile to the beach to get my stuff and then walked back one mile to the car' story. Hard to believe. even harder to verify.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 2, 2014 11:07:09 GMT -5
We need oil. They need the money to fund Jihad. This is not theory, btw- I've actually he[ard it said directly from a Muslim cleric in person- his lips to my ears: "God gave us this oil, so we may use it to bring the world under sharia". They don't attack us directly, but through their oil-money funded madrases and radical mosques. This goes right up there with the 'I was swept up the coast by a rip current for six miles, swam to shore, walked back six miles to my car and then remembered all my stuff was still at the beach so I walked back a mile to the beach to get my stuff and then walked back one mile to the car' story. Hard to believe. The extra fun part? This cleric was a US Military chaplain. You can doubt me if you want to, most people would rather dismiss this kind of thing because after all, a desire to be well-informed is often at odd with our natural human desire to feel like we're normal, well-adjusted, peaceful, safe, etc. That's why calamity so often seems to 'sneak up on' people. It's why people where I live don't prepare for hurricanes / floods. It's 'normal' to ignore obvious danger.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,499
|
Post by Tennesseer on Sept 2, 2014 11:07:40 GMT -5
This goes right up there with the 'I was swept up the coast by a rip current for six miles, swam to shore, walked back six miles to my car and then remembered all my stuff was still at the beach so I walked back a mile to the beach to get my stuff and then walked back one mile to the car' story. Hard to believe. even harder to verify.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 2, 2014 11:08:06 GMT -5
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,499
|
Post by Tennesseer on Sept 2, 2014 11:09:09 GMT -5
This goes right up there with the 'I was swept up the coast by a rip current for six miles, swam to shore, walked back six miles to my car and then remembered all my stuff was still at the beach so I walked back a mile to the beach to get my stuff and then walked back one mile to the car' story. Hard to believe. The extra fun part? This cleric was a US Military chaplain. You can doubt me if you want to, most people would rather dismiss this kind of thing because after all, a desire to be well-informed is often at odd with our natural human desire to feel like we're normal, well-adjusted, peaceful, safe, etc. That's why calamity so often seems to 'sneak up on' people. It's why people where I live don't prepare for hurricanes / floods. It's 'normal' to ignore obvious danger. Even harder to believe now.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 2, 2014 11:11:54 GMT -5
We need oil. They need the money to fund Jihad. This is not theory, btw- I've actually he[ard it said directly from a Muslim cleric in person- his lips to my ears: "God gave us this oil, so we may use it to bring the world under sharia". They don't attack us directly, but through their oil-money funded madrases and radical mosques. having read Sleeping With The Devil, i am quite aware of all of that. in that book, Baer calls Washington DC a "company town" for ARAMCO. it is a rather interesting, macabre, and chilling way of putting it. but it also speaks volumes to the hopelessness of ending it.The problem with the world-wide religious holy war we're in is that most of the west, and in particular America doesn't realize it is well underway. The ISIS, al-Qaeda, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah types aren't coming to America- they're here. There are formal in informal 'sleeper cells' in waiting to respond as ordered, or as opportunity permits. They're scattered throughout the United States- some are in the highest levels of government. Others are police, firefighters, military, airline pilots, gang members, cab drivers, computer programmers-- and they look as American / western as you and I. They are, like Mohammad Atta and crew, waiting to respond as terrorist cells against this nation. They aren't the KKK. They aren't just a 'few'. They are radical sects, 200 million strong, and they believe they have a command from God to kill infidels- especially Christians and Jews. Most people don't realize that there are deep seeded cultural differences between our western, Judeo-Christian way of life and even 'moderate muslims'. In an all-out holy war-- say after a nuclear attack on NYC, DC, Chicago, and LA plunges the country into years of darkness- there wouldn't be a functioning electronic anything anywhere for YEARS, we can't automatically trust or rely on the moderate muslims to do the right thing. Many moderate muslims are turned off by our liberal democratic politics, and permissive culture. It will be easy to sway them that it is their religious duty to oppose us. We are ‘infidels’ and there is nothing you can do to accommodate them. That’s what makes them so dangerous. And I do believe that moderate muslims need to fully assimilate, and one of the best ways they can do that is to speak out. How else are we going to know who to trust? Are we supposed to just assume in the middle of the mother of all terrorist attacks still to come- a nuclear strike, and/or EMP- that the 'moderate' muslims among us won't turn on us to save their own hides, or out of sympathy for them movement? you didn't answer even ONE portion of my question, Paul. would you care to try again? edit: i changed the color, if that helps you see it....... They're allied with us to sell us oil, the proceeds of which they use to fund Jihad. How is that not answering the question?
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 2, 2014 11:12:29 GMT -5
The extra fun part? This cleric was a US Military chaplain. You can doubt me if you want to, most people would rather dismiss this kind of thing because after all, a desire to be well-informed is often at odd with our natural human desire to feel like we're normal, well-adjusted, peaceful, safe, etc. That's why calamity so often seems to 'sneak up on' people. It's why people where I live don't prepare for hurricanes / floods. It's 'normal' to ignore obvious danger. Even harder to believe now. Don't believe it then. No skin of my nose.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Sept 2, 2014 11:13:25 GMT -5
So, one could be a NAZI- believing that the Aryian - Germanic people are genetically superior to all other people, but not be for the extermination of all other people? And you would buy this bullshit from them when the chips are down? Yes. I'm pretty sure lions will kill and eat people under the right set of circumstances. That doesn't mean I want to exterminate lions.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Sept 2, 2014 11:15:29 GMT -5
We need oil. They need the money to fund Jihad. This is not theory, btw- I've actually he[ard it said directly from a Muslim cleric in person- his lips to my ears: "God gave us this oil, so we may use it to bring the world under sharia". They don't attack us directly, but through their oil-money funded madrases and radical mosques. This goes right up there with the 'I was swept up the coast by a rip current for six miles, swam to shore, walked back six miles to my car and then remembered all my stuff was still at the beach so I walked back a mile to the beach to get my stuff and then walked back one mile to the car' story. Hard to believe. I think the important thing is: Because one cleric says something we don't necessarily take that to the bank, or count on it to be the one and only approach. Because Fred Phelps said something are we to assume that as the stance of Christians?
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,131
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 2, 2014 11:17:07 GMT -5
you didn't answer even ONE portion of my question, Paul. would you care to try again? edit: i changed the color, if that helps you see it....... They're allied with us to sell us oil, the proceeds of which they use to fund Jihad. How is that not answering the question? because those that are selling the oil are actually the enemy of the jiihadists. Paul, you really need to read "Sleeping With The Devil". seriously. your posts would get a lot richer on this subject.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,131
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 2, 2014 11:18:03 GMT -5
Even harder to believe now. Don't believe it then. No skin of my nose. just give us the name, and cite the quotation. simple enough.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,499
|
Post by Tennesseer on Sept 2, 2014 11:19:30 GMT -5
Don't believe it then. No skin of my nose. just give us the name, and cite the quotation. simple enough. If the cleric was whispering sweet somethings into paul's ear, he should have no problem remembering the cleric's name.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,131
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 2, 2014 11:19:46 GMT -5
i don't even see the word "oil" in this citation, let alone "use", "against" or "jiihad".
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,131
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 2, 2014 11:21:06 GMT -5
This goes right up there with the 'I was swept up the coast by a rip current for six miles, swam to shore, walked back six miles to my car and then remembered all my stuff was still at the beach so I walked back a mile to the beach to get my stuff and then walked back one mile to the car' story. Hard to believe. I think the important thing is: Because one cleric says something we don't necessarily take that to the bank, or count on it to be the one and only approach. Because Fred Phelps said something are we to assume that as the stance of Christians? actually, this is precisely the problem with US foreign policy right now. it is reactionary, not strategic. i would be THRILLED if the reactionaries were drummed out of DC. the world would be a better place for it.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,131
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 2, 2014 11:23:48 GMT -5
This goes right up there with the 'I was swept up the coast by a rip current for six miles, swam to shore, walked back six miles to my car and then remembered all my stuff was still at the beach so I walked back a mile to the beach to get my stuff and then walked back one mile to the car' story. Hard to believe. The extra fun part? This cleric was a US Military chaplain. You can doubt me if you want to, most people would rather dismiss this kind of thing because after all, a desire to be well-informed is often at odd with our natural human desire to feel like we're normal, well-adjusted, peaceful, safe, etc. That's why calamity so often seems to 'sneak up on' people. It's why people where I live don't prepare for hurricanes / floods. It's 'normal' to ignore obvious danger. i have not had any illusions about how all of this works since early 2003. and i have earthquake insurance.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Sept 2, 2014 11:27:02 GMT -5
This goes right up there with the 'I was swept up the coast by a rip current for six miles, swam to shore, walked back six miles to my car and then remembered all my stuff was still at the beach so I walked back a mile to the beach to get my stuff and then walked back one mile to the car' story. Hard to believe. The extra fun part? This cleric was a US Military chaplain. You can doubt me if you want to, most people would rather dismiss this kind of thing because after all, a desire to be well-informed is often at odd with our natural human desire to feel like we're normal, well-adjusted, peaceful, safe, etc. That's why calamity so often seems to 'sneak up on' people. It's why people where I live don't prepare for hurricanes / floods. It's 'normal' to ignore obvious danger. Who the heck cares what his job is, paul? He's one man in a sea of humanity. For that reason, his opinion can be dismissed along with yours, mine, or anyone else's. We're not more well-informed because of what you say some cleric said to you.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,499
|
Post by Tennesseer on Sept 2, 2014 11:27:58 GMT -5
Allegedly said.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,477
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Sept 2, 2014 11:31:05 GMT -5
Where ya going with this, Bills? One can be a self identifying member of a large organization without internalizing the core values normally associated with that organization. So, one could be a NAZI- believing that the Aryian - Germanic people are genetically superior to all other people, but not be for the extermination of all other people? And you would buy this bullshit from them when the chips are down? Or one can be a Nazi, not believing that the Aryan - Germanic people are genetically superior to all other people, but thinking that they look really hot in the uniform.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 2, 2014 12:06:22 GMT -5
I think the important thing is: Because one cleric says something we don't necessarily take that to the bank, or count on it to be the one and only approach. Because Fred Phelps said something are we to assume that as the stance of Christians? actually, this is precisely the problem with US foreign policy right now. it is reactionary, not strategic. i would be THRILLED if the reactionaries were drummed out of DC. the world would be a better place for it. I think if Fred Phelps had 200 million followers world-wide, and chaplains in our military- we could reasonably assume it was the stance of enough Christians to be of concern. The fact that Fred Phelps is one guy with a couple hundred followers is actually evidence of the fact that the whole of Christianity is moderate- the exception proves the rule. If something like 20% of Christians were of the Phelps persuasion, and instead of carrying signs, they were beheading people, executing people, and bulldozing people into mass graves-- I'd say the world had a radical Christian problem.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,131
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 2, 2014 12:27:02 GMT -5
actually, this is precisely the problem with US foreign policy right now. it is reactionary, not strategic. i would be THRILLED if the reactionaries were drummed out of DC. the world would be a better place for it. I think if Fred Phelps had 200 million followers world-wide red herring, in that i doubt that ISIS (or any other radical sect) has even 200 THOUSAND followers, let alone 200M.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 2, 2014 12:43:24 GMT -5
So, one could be a NAZI- believing that the Aryian - Germanic people are genetically superior to all other people, but not be for the extermination of all other people? And you would buy this bullshit from them when the chips are down? Yes. I'm pretty sure lions will kill and eat people under the right set of circumstances. That doesn't mean I want to exterminate lions. We didn't have to exterminate the NAZIs. But we did have to stand up to them and make it clear that they'd never gain power. I don't think radical islamists have been appropriately disabused of the notion they're going to rule the world, do you?
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Sept 2, 2014 12:54:39 GMT -5
Yes. I'm pretty sure lions will kill and eat people under the right set of circumstances. That doesn't mean I want to exterminate lions. We didn't have to exterminate the NAZIs. But we did have to stand up to them and make it clear that they'd never gain power. I don't think radical islamists have been appropriately disabused of the notion they're going to rule the world, do you? I answered your question as you worded it, paul.
|
|
damnotagain
Well-Known Member
Joined: Oct 19, 2012 21:18:44 GMT -5
Posts: 1,211
|
Post by damnotagain on Sept 2, 2014 16:54:23 GMT -5
Yes and the Christians were fed to lions for believing in their faith Islamist are cutting off the heads of non believers . Maybe just a little difference. This is the 21st century. you missed my point entirely. congratulations. You sir certainly missed mine.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,131
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 2, 2014 23:32:15 GMT -5
you missed my point entirely. congratulations. You sir certainly missed mine. oh, you had a point? you're right, that didn't occur to me. so was your point that ISIS needs to start wearing Togas?
|
|
damnotagain
Well-Known Member
Joined: Oct 19, 2012 21:18:44 GMT -5
Posts: 1,211
|
Post by damnotagain on Sept 3, 2014 5:56:04 GMT -5
You sir certainly missed mine. oh, you had a point? you're right, that didn't occur to me. so was your point that ISIS needs to start wearing Togas? I thought you already solved the ISIS issue .... " it was easy" so you said.
|
|
damnotagain
Well-Known Member
Joined: Oct 19, 2012 21:18:44 GMT -5
Posts: 1,211
|
Post by damnotagain on Sept 3, 2014 6:11:22 GMT -5
Some of your moderates in Briton !
|
|
OldCoyote
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:34:48 GMT -5
Posts: 13,449
|
Post by OldCoyote on Sept 3, 2014 7:20:07 GMT -5
Some of your moderates in Briton !
Wonder how many of these demonstrators were actually gainfully employed??
|
|