So I have a job offer

[Deleted]

Sept 10, 2014 8:57:18 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I'm aware of that, @singlemominmd; however, that firing was overturned. He was not fired then.

if you know that, your comment makes no sense as your comment talked about his current job which wasn't part of his question.

[mmhmm]

I said that because I wasn't clear on which situation he was concerned about, @singlemominmd. As far as I'm concerned, Phoenix has never been fired. I think that's the important thing, along with returning the required paperwork as soon as possible.

[Bonny]

Sept 10, 2014 8:19:21 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

phoenix - it may not matter, but when your termination was overturned, were you reinstated with back pay? That is, were you paid for the wages/income you lost during the period from your termination date through to your reinstatement/return to work date?

If yes, then your electronic employment records would most definitely have been corrected and they should not show any break in service.  

I don't know how that employer handled their employment records, maybe it is not their policy to issue back pay for wrongful termination,  but if they did award you back pay, then that would build my confidence in not even mentioning the termination and reinstatement.

See his post 116. He was reinstated, got back pay and his record corrected.

[Tennesseer]

Sept 10, 2014 9:24:02 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Sept 10, 2014 8:19:21 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

phoenix - it may not matter, but when your termination was overturned, were you reinstated with back pay? That is, were you paid for the wages/income you lost during the period from your termination date through to your reinstatement/return to work date?

If yes, then your electronic employment records would most definitely have been corrected and they should not show any break in service.  

I don't know how that employer handled their employment records, maybe it is not their policy to issue back pay for wrongful termination,  but if they did award you back pay, then that would build my confidence in not even mentioning the termination and reinstatement.

See his post 116. He was reinstated, got back pay and his record corrected.

Then he should have no reason to even entertain the question.  

thanks for where he pointed it out.

[Bonny]

That was my thinking. His situation is a little convoluted but the ultimate end (in my mind) is that he had continuous employment.

But it's good to hear from you a HR professional.

[Apple]

I just sent our HR person an email asking her what she would advise you do. Gave basic info and that the new job was with Navy. She works from home once a week, so not sure if she's here today, but I will let you know what she says. She does HR for our district and has been doing it a while. Hoping she says to put "no". I'll let you know as soon as I hear.

[Apple]

My messaging does not work on this computer, so, Phoenyx, I'll PM when I can, but, from HR...

"If it was found to be a wrongful termination and he was reinstated, then the employee is treated as if it never happened. I would send a quick email to (Labor Specialist A) or (Labor Specialist B) to verify this."

Email has been sent to both.

I'll PM my email address when I can, and can forward the actual email to you so you would have something in writing if it were to come up in the future.

Hope that helps!

[Abby Normal]

Sept 10, 2014 9:26:09 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 10, 2014 9:24:02 GMT -5 Bonny said:

See his post 116. He was reinstated, got back pay and his record corrected.

Then he should have no reason to even entertain the question.  

thanks for where he pointed it out.

The part the bothers me is that his current job specifically asked about it not too long ago.  That sounds like it is still in his record.

[Bonny]

Sept 10, 2014 10:47:01 GMT -5 Abby Normal said:

Sept 10, 2014 9:26:09 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Then he should have no reason to even entertain the question.  

thanks for where he pointed it out.

The part the bothers me is that his current job specifically asked about it not too long ago.  That sounds like it is still in his record.

I suspect it was a former colleague. Some people just like stirring up trouble.

[Apple]

Ok, second two people aren't lawyers, but "Labor Specialists", so...

Not know the specifics to this case, I would tend to agree with (HR #1 person's) advice. If the employee prevailed then the record should be cleared to reflect that it never happened. The employee should respond with a "No" on the questionnaire of whether they were removed from federal service and if asked then the employee could provide the reversal decision. However, if the employee entered into any of type of agreement, then that may need to be addressed.

(These are federal HR people, so they know the ins-and-outs of the federal "uniqueness")

Phoenix84 Check your PMs. I've sent you my work email address.

[Phoenix84]

Sept 10, 2014 8:19:21 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

phoenix - it may not matter, but when your termination was overturned, were you reinstated with back pay? That is, were you paid for the wages/income you lost during the period from your termination date through to your reinstatement/return to work date?

If yes, then your electronic employment records would most definitely have been corrected and they should not show any break in service.  

I don't know how that employer handled their employment records, maybe it is not their policy to issue back pay for wrongful termination,  but if they did award you back pay, then that would build my confidence in not even mentioning the termination and reinstatement.

Yes, I was given back pay for the time period from when I was terminated and when I was reinstated to my position again after the appeal. It was like a $17,000 deposit in my account. I also have a letter from the Air Force notifying me that all of the court ordered steps (including backpay) have been completed.

[Phoenix84]

Sept 10, 2014 10:47:01 GMT -5 Abby Normal said:

Sept 10, 2014 9:26:09 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Then he should have no reason to even entertain the question.  

thanks for where he pointed it out.

The part the bothers me is that his current job specifically asked about it not too long ago.  That sounds like it is still in his record.

It's a convoluted situation. It wasn't my job that was asking, it was people doing a background investigation. It's a subtle, but important difference. Your manager isn't the one doing the background investigation, that's given to someone else, usually a government contractor. Those government contractors do the legwork. My understanding from talking to the interviewer is that they do not disclose any personal information whatsoever to anyone who doesn't have a need to know, which includes your current employer. To my knowledge, my boss doesn't know about my previous firing. My current management has not indicated in any way they are aware of it.

I imagine the people doing my background investigation found out about it from talking with my former employer at the Air Force.

The form I'm filling out now is an OF 306 or something like that. But there WILL be a security clearance investigation for this job and my firing WILL most likely come up. If my current investigators found out, I'm sure the Navy investigators will find out about it, probably from the same person as before.

The people doing a background investigation don't really care about how your performance on the job I don't think. They're just trying to ensure I don't sell state secrets to our enemies.  They're trying to ensure I can't be blackmailed or bought into betraying my country.  I guess my firing is only relevant in that respect that they don't want someone to use it to threaten or blackmail me. 

[Phoenix84]

I talked with the HR people at work and they pretty much said the same thing as Apple's HR people, which is to put "no."

Which is what I did. Now I just have to wait and see how everything plays out. If confronted with it again I'll just say the same thing I said last time "it was overturned and I was reinstated. Therefore the firing never really happened."

[Bonny]

Sept 11, 2014 0:24:11 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I talked with the HR people at work and they pretty much said the same thing as Apple's HR people, which is to put "no."

Which is what I did. Now I just have to wait and see how everything plays out. If confronted with it again I'll just say the same thing I said last time "it was overturned and I was reinstated. Therefore the firing never really happened."

If it comes up I'd go so far as to include "I double-checked with HR who agreed that because it was overturned..."

Any chance you have that opinion in writing?

[Phoenix84]

Now the HR person is asking for my "point of contact."

I'm not sure what she means by this. Point of contact for me, my boss, my organization, HR?

I asked for clarification and she said

"Mr. X, I need the point of contact your current work for as of know"

No, those aren't typos, those are misspelling in her e-mail.

I sent her my contact information, I'm not sure what she means by "point of contact." For what?

[Apple]

I would take point of contact as the HR to verify employment and send that info. I'd avoid sending supervisor info since they didn't say supervisor.

[Deleted]

Sept 11, 2014 15:08:08 GMT -5 Apple said:

I would take point of contact as the HR to verify employment and send that info. I'd avoid sending supervisor info since they didn't say supervisor.

yup, send her to HR....and an English class

[dannylion]

I second apple's advice. Whenever you're asked for a reference or point of contact at your current job, just give the info for HR.  Where I worked, we were actually not allowed to give anything but HR as a point of contact to anyone outside the agency. Any information on your dates of service, grade level, and anything else will come from HR. There should be no reason to contact your immediate supervisor.

[Abby Normal]

It's HR.  It's someone who can verify the information you gave them on the application.

But WTH is up with the typos?  

[vonna]

Sept 11, 2014 15:34:33 GMT -5 @tbird said:

Sept 11, 2014 15:01:28 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Now the HR person is asking for my "point of contact."

I'm not sure what she means by this. Point of contact for me, my boss, my organization, HR?

I asked for clarification and she said

"Mr. X, I need the point of contact your current work for as of know"

No, those aren't typos, those are misspelling in her e-mail.

I sent her my contact information, I'm not sure what she means by "point of contact." For what?

if she continues to be nonunderstandable, I would say

"I'm sorry but I'm not familiar with the phrase "point of contact", can you please clarify"

Welcome to the Navy -- The grammatical errors hopefully will not be the norm, but there is a completely different language.  And brace yourself for the acronyms . . .

At least she spelled it out -- pretty much every letter, instruction, order, official email, etc. contains a POC line  (point of contact) with name, phone number and email.

ETA: and yes, she meant your HR POC that can verify your employment dates

[Phoenix84]

Seems yo'all were right. She wanted HR.

I kind of wish she had been more specific but *shrugs* guess we got there in the end.

[973beachbum]

Sept 11, 2014 17:15:12 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Seems yo'all were right. She wanted HR.

I kind of wish she had been more specific but *shrugs* guess we got there in the end.

I think she was typing on a tablet or was typing fast and it put in the word "know" instead of "now".  I know I do that here all the time.

Good luck I hope it works out!!

[violagirl]

This thread could be its own reality TV show. It is very suspenseful. I know your stressful situation shouldn't be so entertaining but I have a whole TV show scenario in my head. I picture kind of a female version of Dwight Schrute as your manager.

[Phoenix84]

Yeah, it is kind of like a reality TV show in a way.

Anyway, the latest is that nothing happened while the senior manager was here.  Instead, my boss issued a 30 day extension of my current detail of doing basically nothing.

I suspect they figured they couldn't get me on misconduct charges, so they're going to delay everything until my annual review comes due.  Then they'll give me a poor review and put me on a performance improvement plan.

This works in my favor though, as I'm sure within the next few weeks I'll have a firm start date.  So, unless this job falls through, it's pretty much a checkmate for my current  job.  I'll be long gone before they can do any harm to my career.

[Jaguar]

Sept 12, 2014 18:41:32 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Yeah, it is kind of like a reality TV show in a way.

Anyway, the latest is that nothing happened while the senior manager was here.  Instead, my boss issued a 30 day extension of my current detail of doing basically nothing.

I suspect they figured they couldn't get me on misconduct charges, so they're going to delay everything until my annual review comes due.  Then they'll give me a poor review and put me on a performance improvement plan.

This works in my favor though, as I'm sure within the next few weeks I'll have a firm start date.  So, unless this job falls through, it's pretty much a checkmate for my current  job.  I'll be long gone before they can do any harm to my career.

FREAKING AWESOME !!

[dannylion]

That's great news, Phoenix! Sending good thoughts that the timing works out in your favor.

[taz157]

Sept 12, 2014 18:55:34 GMT -5 dannylion said:

That's great news, Phoenix! Sending good thoughts that the timing works out in your favor.

[shanendoah]

I will add, asking if you have ever been fired or resigned in lieu of termination is a pretty standard question when applying for higher level positions. Being asked that question is not an indicator that someone is out to get you, or that someone has "told" on you. It is just standard.

But I agree with everyone else- Because your previous termination was wrongful and has been overturned in a court of law, it does not exist. Your employment has never been terminated from a legal standpoint.

[Nazgul Girl]

   Excellent news !  

[cktc]

Are you still job hunting, or do you feel pretty confident with the offer?