Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Sept 9, 2014 10:29:16 GMT -5
Umm, I never heard of an exit interview for someone who is being fired. I guess they could do it right before.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2014 10:29:30 GMT -5
It could also be that the senior manager is checking on the vibe of the place. It would not go unnoticed that shortly after they have a new manager on of their "formerly good" employees gets moved to a "time filler" position. It could be that they are checking on Phoenix, or the manager or both. But I do think that if the senior manager asks to speak with you, I think it is fair to tell her that you have been struggling with the change from an autonomous position to one where you have to write down your every move, including bathroom breaks. That you have tried to meet managers needs, but that you don't feel you are getting clear direction on what she wants and that you two got off on the wrong foot because you didnt realize it was so important to her to know where you were at all times. If you say you are struggling, it looks less like your trying to throw manager under the bus. huh? tell her you're struggling but when you do it looks like you're trying to throw the manager under the bus?
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Sept 9, 2014 10:43:59 GMT -5
It could also be that the senior manager is checking on the vibe of the place. It would not go unnoticed that shortly after they have a new manager on of their "formerly good" employees gets moved to a "time filler" position. It could be that they are checking on Phoenix, or the manager or both. But I do think that if the senior manager asks to speak with you, I think it is fair to tell her that you have been struggling with the change from an autonomous position to one where you have to write down your every move, including bathroom breaks. That you have tried to meet managers needs, but that you don't feel you are getting clear direction on what she wants and that you two got off on the wrong foot because you didnt realize it was so important to her to know where you were at all times. If you say you are struggling, it looks less like your trying to throw manager under the bus. huh? tell her you're struggling but when you do it looks like you're trying to throw the manager under the bus? You play the good employee who is trying to meet manager needs rather than the bad employee who refuses to do what manager asks. But lets Senior manager know that some of the requests are ridiculous.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Sept 9, 2014 11:43:56 GMT -5
The problem with not telling the truth and "never talking bad about management" is that upper management never figures it out, or, they have an inkling, but no one will confirm it and they can't do anything about that person.
We've had one guy who would have been fired, was "this close" to being fired, but no one else would say anything, so he's still here. And, when someone gets hurt because of him, well, it's on the heads of those people who were asked outright, but "didn't want to say anything."
It sucks being the person who has to say it, especially when no one else will. But, I've decided that if you can't back me up, you lose your right to complain to me about someone. Some bosses appreciate it, some don't.
You can be honest without sounding whiney, or really bad mouthing someone. The trick is learning the balance.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 9, 2014 18:11:11 GMT -5
I'm not sure if I should start a new thread or add to this one.
They finally came through and asked me to fill out the initial paperwork. Unfortunately it asks the question "have you been fired in the last 5 years."
I really have no idea how to answer this question.
Presumably they'll find out just like my current investigation found out. But is it really being "fired" if it was overturned in a court of law and I was officially reinstated like it never happened?
I really don't know how to answer. Or even if there is a right answer.
I'll probably ask HR tomorrow about any legalities or advice on what I should put.
Overall, I don't think it will matter much what I say because they'll find out. But I'm inclined to say "no" because it was overturned and I was reinstated in a lawful manner.
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 9, 2014 18:13:02 GMT -5
When will you be giving your 2 weeks' notice at your current job? Can you just stall (not blatantly disagree, just not fill it out) until then?
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 9, 2014 18:13:51 GMT -5
Phoenix-your senior manager may simply want to conduct an exit interview with you. A suggestion if you do not mind: make sure you burn no bridges if an exit interview is in fact going to occur. You never know when a better future opportunity may open within your current employer and they want to consider you. If possible, always leave an employer wishing you had remained with them. Well, I don't know why they'd be conducting an exit interview if they don't know I'm leaving. Unless they plan on firing me on the spot, in which case there will be a 30 day delay before I'm actually fired.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 9, 2014 18:16:12 GMT -5
When will you be giving your 2 weeks' notice at your current job? Can you just stall (not blatantly disagree, just not fill it out) until then? My current job doesn't have anything to do with the question. I was fired from the Air Force as a civilian on probation in 2010. I appealed it to the merit systems protection board and won the case, and the termination was overturned and I was reinstated effective the day after they terminated me, and given back pay, and my record was modified to reflect this. I ended up leaving for my current employer shortly after I returned to work there.
Sorry for not providing enough background information. But my current situation is irrelevant to this question as I have not been fired or even threatened with being fired here.
It's just a shame this couldn't happen 9 months from now. They only care if it was in the last 5 years.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 9, 2014 18:19:56 GMT -5
Phoenix-your senior manager may simply want to conduct an exit interview with you. A suggestion if you do not mind: make sure you burn no bridges if an exit interview is in fact going to occur. You never know when a better future opportunity may open within your current employer and they want to consider you. If possible, always leave an employer wishing you had remained with them. Well, I don't know why they'd be conducting an exit interview if they don't know I'm leaving. Unless they plan on firing me on the spot, in which case there will be a 30 day delay before I'm actually fired. My error. I had forgotten you have not signed a job acceptence nor submitted your resignation. My advice though still stands: if asked to participate in an exit interview, do not burn your bridges. ETA: by the way, your thread title ìs misleading. You have yet to receive a written job offer. That is all that counts.
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 9, 2014 18:27:24 GMT -5
When will you be giving your 2 weeks' notice at your current job? Can you just stall (not blatantly disagree, just not fill it out) until then? My current job doesn't have anything to do with the question. I was fired from the Air Force as a civilian on probation in 2010. I appealed it to the merit systems protection board and won the case, and the termination was overturned and I was reinstated effective the day after they terminated me, and given back pay, and my record was modified to reflect this. I ended up leaving for my current employer shortly after I returned to work there.
Sorry for not providing enough background information. But my current situation is irrelevant to this question as I have not been fired or even threatened with being fired here.
It's just a shame this couldn't happen 9 months from now. They only care if it was in the last 5 years.
I already knew the fact set of the firing, just didn't understand that the questionnaire related to your new - yet to be started - job. I mistakenly thought it was your existing job asking you to do this so they could dig for dirt.
If it relates to your new job, you can't stall. Since it's a technical, legal question, why not email the attorney you used for that case and ask him/her how to correctly answer the question?
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 9, 2014 19:39:58 GMT -5
My current job doesn't have anything to do with the question. I was fired from the Air Force as a civilian on probation in 2010. I appealed it to the merit systems protection board and won the case, and the termination was overturned and I was reinstated effective the day after they terminated me, and given back pay, and my record was modified to reflect this. I ended up leaving for my current employer shortly after I returned to work there.
Sorry for not providing enough background information. But my current situation is irrelevant to this question as I have not been fired or even threatened with being fired here.
It's just a shame this couldn't happen 9 months from now. They only care if it was in the last 5 years.
I already knew the fact set of the firing, just didn't understand that the questionnaire related to your new - yet to be started - job. I mistakenly thought it was your existing job asking you to do this so they could dig for dirt.
If it relates to your new job, you can't stall. Since it's a technical, legal question, why not email the attorney you used for that case and ask him/her how to correctly answer the question?
To be fair, my current employer did ask on background investigation paperwork the same question. Then I said "no" and during the interview they asked me about it. I said I said "no" because it was overturned and I was reinstated. They offered no value judgment on it and moved on.
Now the question is being asked again by the new, "yet to be started" job.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 9, 2014 19:43:17 GMT -5
Well, I don't know why they'd be conducting an exit interview if they don't know I'm leaving. Unless they plan on firing me on the spot, in which case there will be a 30 day delay before I'm actually fired. My error. I had forgotten you have not signed a job acceptence nor submitted your resignation. My advice though still stands: if asked to participate in an exit interview, do not burn your bridges. ETA: by the way, your thread title ìs misleading. You have yet to receive a written job offer. That is all that counts. No, I've been offered the job "tentatively" in writing pending the submission and approval of certain paperwork and other pre employment tasks. The rest of the questions are easy like "are you outstanding on any debt" and "have you ever been convicted of a crime" and "are you a U.S citizen" and "have you registered for the draft."
I will not submit my resignation until I have a "final" job offer, as in all pre employment processes are complete and I have a firm start date.
I know, it's a weird situation to be in, but that's the government for you. Sorry if it's confusing.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Sept 9, 2014 19:46:19 GMT -5
I think your answer is still the same. Your "firing" was overturned and you were reinstated so it's like it never happened. 1+3-4 still equals 0 in my book. Good luck!
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 9, 2014 20:27:10 GMT -5
I think your answer is still the same. Your "firing" was overturned and you were reinstated so it's like it never happened. 1+3-4 still equals 0 in my book. Good luck! Yeah, that's kind of the way I'm leaning towards. It's hard to boil down a "yes" or "no" question, but if you want to get technical, it was overturned and I was reinstated. My ruling says the decision was "reversed" so I'm inclined to say "no."
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Sept 9, 2014 20:54:12 GMT -5
Did you ever find out (have any follow up conversations) on how your current job found out about it? Was it really like it never happened, or was overturned and the record reflects that it was? If you have seen your record and it shows than I would answer yes, but overturned on the application. If your current employer can see it, than your potential one can too and I would think being honest would be better.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 9, 2014 23:39:42 GMT -5
I just don't know. It just sucks I have to keep dealing with the fallout of a crappy decision made by some people for so long. Either way, it could ruin my chances of getting this new job, or even worse, if they find out about it and decide to fire me after I start because of it. It's something that really worries me. And it's maddening that I don't know what the right answer is, or even if there is a right answer. Maybe I'm screwed no matter what. I just don't know how understanding outside people looking in are going to be. I mean, even when I was the victim of a bad decision many still probably would view it as my fault.
I try not to play out these nightmare scenarios in my head, but it worries me. I'm more worried about the potential fallout from this than the potential fallout from my current job. As of yet, nothing has really happened yet at my present job, and if I leave soon, nothing bad will happen.
I'm not even sure why the hell this question is relevant. And it's hard to nail down into a simple "yes" or "no" answer.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Sept 10, 2014 0:02:17 GMT -5
Can you contact the hiring supervisor and ask? I know it would be a little awkward, but you would be able to give a quick run down "I was wrongfully terminated and that termination was over turned and i have 5 Years of excellent reviews since. It should be wiped clean, but I thought it would be better to ask." Not exactly that, but something.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 10, 2014 0:12:31 GMT -5
Can you contact the hiring supervisor and ask? I know it would be a little awkward, but you would be able to give a quick run down "I was wrongfully terminated and that termination was over turned and i have 5 Years of excellent reviews since. It should be wiped clean, but I thought it would be better to ask." Not exactly that, but something. Maybe, but if I contact the HR specialist and ask, I might as well just say "yes."
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Sept 10, 2014 5:37:58 GMT -5
Since it was overturned and all, I believe that the correct answer is no.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 7:25:38 GMT -5
I'm not sure if I should start a new thread or add to this one.
They finally came through and asked me to fill out the initial paperwork. Unfortunately it asks the question "have you been fired in the last 5 years."
I really have no idea how to answer this question.
Presumably they'll find out just like my current investigation found out. But is it really being "fired" if it was overturned in a court of law and I was officially reinstated like it never happened?
I really don't know how to answer. Or even if there is a right answer.
I'll probably ask HR tomorrow about any legalities or advice on what I should put.
Overall, I don't think it will matter much what I say because they'll find out. But I'm inclined to say "no" because it was overturned and I was reinstated in a lawful manner. no, you were not fired.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 7:26:51 GMT -5
Can you contact the hiring supervisor and ask? I know it would be a little awkward, but you would be able to give a quick run down "I was wrongfully terminated and that termination was over turned and i have 5 Years of excellent reviews since. It should be wiped clean, but I thought it would be better to ask." Not exactly that, but something. I would definitely not do this.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Sept 10, 2014 7:30:58 GMT -5
Since it was overturned and all, I believe that the correct answer is no.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Sept 10, 2014 7:36:44 GMT -5
Since it was overturned and all, I believe that the correct answer is no. X 3 You were not fired
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Sept 10, 2014 8:14:44 GMT -5
The other thought... Can you contact the office of the person who overturned it and ask them? If you did it with email that would have it in writing if it came up after you got the job. If you were accused of providing false information.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 10, 2014 8:19:21 GMT -5
phoenix - it may not matter, but when your termination was overturned, were you reinstated with back pay? That is, were you paid for the wages/income you lost during the period from your termination date through to your reinstatement/return to work date?
If yes, then your electronic employment records would most definitely have been corrected and they should not show any break in service.
I don't know how that employer handled their employment records, maybe it is not their policy to issue back pay for wrongful termination, but if they did award you back pay, then that would build my confidence in not even mentioning the termination and reinstatement.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Sept 10, 2014 8:38:42 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Phoenix has mentioned getting back pay for the entire time. Maybe not on this thread though.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 10, 2014 8:44:06 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Phoenix has mentioned getting back pay for the entire time. Maybe not on this thread though. I will admit I have not read most of Phoenix's threads and posts on this subject. So I asked the question from my HR and electronic records corrections work experience.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 10, 2014 8:50:24 GMT -5
I'm not sure if I should start a new thread or add to this one.
They finally came through and asked me to fill out the initial paperwork. Unfortunately it asks the question "have you been fired in the last 5 years."
I really have no idea how to answer this question.
Presumably they'll find out just like my current investigation found out. But is it really being "fired" if it was overturned in a court of law and I was officially reinstated like it never happened?
I really don't know how to answer. Or even if there is a right answer.
I'll probably ask HR tomorrow about any legalities or advice on what I should put.
Overall, I don't think it will matter much what I say because they'll find out. But I'm inclined to say "no" because it was overturned and I was reinstated in a lawful manner. They've sent you the paperwork now. At this point in time, you have not been fired. Therefore, as I view it, the answer to that question is "No." They're not asking you what might happen. They're asking you what HAS happened. I'd want to get that paperwork back to them as soon as possible. Expedience is an attribute.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 8:51:57 GMT -5
I'm not sure if I should start a new thread or add to this one.
They finally came through and asked me to fill out the initial paperwork. Unfortunately it asks the question "have you been fired in the last 5 years."
I really have no idea how to answer this question.
Presumably they'll find out just like my current investigation found out. But is it really being "fired" if it was overturned in a court of law and I was officially reinstated like it never happened?
I really don't know how to answer. Or even if there is a right answer.
I'll probably ask HR tomorrow about any legalities or advice on what I should put.
Overall, I don't think it will matter much what I say because they'll find out. But I'm inclined to say "no" because it was overturned and I was reinstated in a lawful manner. They've sent you the paperwork now. At this point in time, you have not been fired. Therefore, as I view it, the answer to that question is "No." They're not asking you what might happen. They're asking you what HAS happened. I'd want to get that paperwork back to them as soon as possible. Expedience is an attribute. he was asking in reference to his previous job, not the current one. he was fired and it was overturned and he was reinstated and given back pay.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 10, 2014 8:57:18 GMT -5
I'm aware of that, @singlemominmd; however, that firing was overturned. He was not fired then.
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