Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 1, 2014 14:23:09 GMT -5
Don't even tell them new opportunity. Don't let me know anything. New opportunity is just code for I got another job.... in quitting - he either got another job, won the lotto or got a huge inheritance and is now independently wealthy, or the ongoing stress of the current situation has him ready to embrace the homeless lifestyle. Most peeps assume an able-bodied person under 50 quitting has another gig. I don't think it is giving a lot of info.....and it also allows sidestepping of any other reasons for leaving, aka no need to mention or acknowledge in any way the current situation. Yes, my wording will be vague about where I'm going and what I'm doing. Eventually they'll find out though, because HR at the new job will request my personnel file from my current employer. But by then I'll have already started the job.
I won't mention any of the problems with my current supervisor, though part of me wants to. I think she's kept a lot of people in the dark about what she's doing, even, I think, her bosses. It seems like she might "get away with it" if I don't mention anything. But I know it's probably best not to say anything. Though if a senior manager wants to debrief me, I may say something.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 1, 2014 14:28:00 GMT -5
I've never seen it done. But I do know of one person who turned in their two weeks and then jut took their leave the last two weeks. But in that case, they never did anything, so there was nothing to turn over. LOL - reminds me of an admin we hired. We hired her and she took her 2 week vacay from the other job to work for us, decided we were ok and then quit - I assume without notice because - you don't take 2 weeks off after starting a new job....she came clean after being with us a year or more. I'm still shocked anyone would do this! I don't plan on taking leave if I can avoid it. Since you're going from one federal agency to another, your leave balance transfers with you.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 1, 2014 14:29:27 GMT -5
CA is an at-will state and I had to sign a lot of paperwork reminding me that they can fire you, at any time, for no reason, and you have zero recourse. Thankfully, the feds are not an at will employer, even if you live and work in an at will state.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 1, 2014 14:29:33 GMT -5
Never, never, never mention any disagreement with supervision, @phoenix84. It doesn't change anything and nearly always works against you in the end. You're going to a new job so what happens at this current job will no longer be your concern. If she's a bad supervisor it's up to those in charge to find that out and do something about it. It's not up to you and it's just not smart to put yourself on the line like that. Just let it go, move on, use this as a learning experience and forge ahead.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 1, 2014 14:35:36 GMT -5
Poor thing! How long is the hiring process intra Fed? Depends on the budget situation and other factors. But if I had to guess, 1-2 months from now when I say yes.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 1, 2014 14:36:30 GMT -5
Never, never, never mention any disagreement with supervision, @phoenix84. It doesn't change anything and nearly always works against you in the end. You're going to a new job so what happens at this current job will no longer be your concern. If she's a bad supervisor it's up to those in charge to find that out and do something about it. It's not up to you and it's just not smart to put yourself on the line like that. Just let it go, move on, use this as a learning experience and forge ahead. Yes, you're right. Getting bogged down in current interpersonal politics probably isn't a good idea. What happens to her isn't my concern after I leave.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 1, 2014 14:47:09 GMT -5
Never, never, never mention any disagreement with supervision, @phoenix84. It doesn't change anything and nearly always works against you in the end. You're going to a new job so what happens at this current job will no longer be your concern. If she's a bad supervisor it's up to those in charge to find that out and do something about it. It's not up to you and it's just not smart to put yourself on the line like that. Just let it go, move on, use this as a learning experience and forge ahead. Yes, you're right. Getting bogged down in current interpersonal politics probably isn't a good idea. What happens to her isn't my concern after I leave. That's the ticket! Look to the future, not the past. The past has taken care of itself. The future is yours to build.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 1, 2014 16:07:09 GMT -5
Don't tell her anything, period. Just give your two weeks and that's that. She's obviously protected or connected to be able to pull this crap.
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Sept 2, 2014 7:39:33 GMT -5
Or at least a tentative job offer, as all federal job offers are tentative at first until you pass a physical, which I shouldn't have any problems doing.
Anyway, the job is with the Navy on the East Coast, though thankfully not in the DC area. Basically it would involve being an inspector for all non propulsion uses of radioactive material used in the Navy. I'd travel throughout the U.S and to bases in foreign countries and do inspections and trainings.
The job is "up to 50%" travel, which is a lot. On the plus side, the opportunity to do some international travel is interesting. I'm just worried how it will affect my attempts to improve my social/dating life. Being on the road all the time isn't conducive to meeting people, developing relationships, starting and maintaining a family ect. I don't mind doing it for a while, maybe several years, but I don't see myself doing it indefinitely.
Thankfully, the job provides extensive training, which I think will improve my chances of success. I'd much rather do that than start and get "thrown in the deep end."
Obviously, I need to take personal responsibility for my role in what happened in my previous jobs and make the necessary changes to ensure what happened doesn't happen again. I'll eventually run out of places to run to, and I have to make this work. I'll do a careful analysis of what went wrong and what I need to change to ensure I'm successful. Just blaming others doesn't help me.
The job is a grade higher, which is nice, but it's in a area where the COLA adjustment doesn't match the actual cost of living in my opinion.
Most importantly, it's an opportunity to make a new start and get out of my current toxic work environment.
Moving, as always, is a pain in the ass. But hopefully they'll pay for my moving expenses. The job announcement said they might, depending on the budget. All I can say, whithout reading the rest of the thread is 'Go on, take the money, and run'.... well *job*, but you know what I mean
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Peace77
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Post by Peace77 on Sept 2, 2014 14:20:00 GMT -5
Hope you have good credit.
One one man had accepted a federal job and was making plans to move when everything fell apart. I suspect that the job offer was pulled when the ran his credit.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Sept 8, 2014 13:09:14 GMT -5
Anything new to report?
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 8, 2014 18:06:20 GMT -5
Hope you have good credit. One one man had accepted a federal job and was making plans to move when everything fell apart. I suspect that the job offer was pulled when the ran his credit. My credit is very good. I don't know exactly what my score is but it's in the 700 range.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 8, 2014 18:15:37 GMT -5
I accepted the job on Labor Day. The HR person e-mailed me back asking for my SSN and place and date of birth so they could draw up background investigation paperwork. I gave them the info. That was last Tuesday, so it's been about a week since I've heard anything. So it's just waiting around for the process to play itself out.
On my current job, I'm a bit nervous because a senior manager is visiting from out of state later this week. If anyone was going to fire me, it would be her. I'm a bit nervous because her timing coincides with the end of my detail. Could be a coincidence or not. I'm not really sure. She may also just want to talk to me and/or my boss and work things out in some way, or at least hear my side of the story.
I've done research into the official policies for federal career employees, and the only things that I can be fired for are poor performance and misconduct. I cannot be fired for poor performance until I get a bad review, and I haven't had one yet. My next review period isn't until at least October, and I got a positive review last time (rated as exceeds expectations.).
In theory, they could fire me for misconduct, but I don't see how anything I've done would warrant such an extreme response, unless there really was a problem and I put the public in danger. But all the evidence I've collected points that there wasn't anything of the sort. And I probably would have caught wind of it if there really was an incident of that scope.
Either way, the worst case scenario is they'll try to fire me when she's here, but there's a minimum of 30 days before I actually am out of a job. Of course there's a appeals process and a hearing and they have to produce sufficient evidence that I had some severe incident of misconduct.
So I'm guessing if the visit later this week has anything to do with me, it's to get my side of the story and perhaps work something out. But I don't know.
I'm still a bit nervous about how all this is going to play out. I'm not out of the woods yet, and I'll feel better when I got the official job offer in hand and am driving out to my new job location.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 8, 2014 18:30:26 GMT -5
[/quote] Phoenix-I would not worry about a misconduct scenario. Any misconduct would have required immediate action by your supervisor, including immediate suspension with pay pending investigation.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 8, 2014 18:31:18 GMT -5
I accepted the job on Labor Day. The HR person e-mailed me back asking for my SSN and place and date of birth so they could draw up background investigation paperwork. I gave them the info. That was last Tuesday, so it's been about a week since I've heard anything. So it's just waiting around for the process to play itself out.
On my current job, I'm a bit nervous because a senior manager is visiting from out of state later this week. If anyone was going to fire me, it would be her. I'm a bit nervous because her timing coincides with the end of my detail. Could be a coincidence or not. I'm not really sure. She may also just want to talk to me and/or my boss and work things out in some way, or at least hear my side of the story.
I've done research into the official policies for federal career employees, and the only things that I can be fired for are poor performance and misconduct. I cannot be fired for poor performance until I get a bad review, and I haven't had one yet. My next review period isn't until at least October, and I got a positive review last time (rated as exceeds expectations.).
In theory, they could fire me for misconduct, but I don't see how anything I've done would warrant such an extreme response, unless there really was a problem and I put the public in danger. But all the evidence I've collected points that there wasn't anything of the sort. And I probably would have caught wind of it if there really was an incident of that scope.
Either way, the worst case scenario is they'll try to fire me when she's here, but there's a minimum of 30 days before I actually am out of a job. Of course there's a appeals process and a hearing and they have to produce sufficient evidence that I had some severe incident of misconduct.
So I'm guessing if the visit later this week has anything to do with me, it's to get my side of the story and perhaps work something out. But I don't know.
I'm still a bit nervous about how all this is going to play out. I'm not out of the woods yet, and I'll feel better when I got the official job offer in hand and am driving out to my new job location.
I'm going to give you some unsolicited advice which may or may not be helpful before you leave this job.
Over time I've learned to roll over and play dead when any performance/behavior/mgmt. snafu happens to me in any job. If someone including you current boss does want to discuss things the best thing to do is nod your head, say you are sorry, apologize for misunterstandings, behavior, etc. Basically be submissive and agreeable. This allows you to be in the position for things to blow over.
I've had issues in at least three jobs due to when my sinus infections/allergies/back problems yada yada get out of control to the point I am not sleeping very much ... it appears to most people I am in the midst of a bipolar episode. I am not. It is a symptom. However, those symptoms are with me until I get the infection/allergies/horrific spine pain fixed and I am sleeping at least 4 hours or more regularly at night. (I am giving you this long-winded explanation because it might be helpful)
So try to roll with whatever happens. Perception is a big part of employee/employer interactions. Sometimes even if you are more "right" per a jury of your peers or Not MSNers, it pays to act contrite, submissive, etc. Its best if you can mean it and try to understand why they don't get you and your actions.
FWIW. YMMV. Not sold in all stores. Some parts may be missing or made in China.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 8, 2014 18:38:02 GMT -5
Tennesseer is probably right. If whatever supposed misconduct I had was severe enough to get me fired, it would have warranted a more immediate response.
I have been thinking about what I'll say if a senior manager does want to discuss this situation with me. It's hard because I don't know exactly what questions will be asked or how they'll be phrased.
But, I plan on telling the truth and giving an accurate account of what happened from my perspective and keep emotion, speculation, opinions, and any personal feelings out of it. If I discuss my boss, I plan on sticking to her actions and not making anything personal. If I do discuss any opinions, it will just be describing my reactions to her actions, but again, not making it personal.
I also plan on acknowledging that I made a mistake and apologizing, and don't plan on repeating it.
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Jaguar
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Post by Jaguar on Sept 8, 2014 18:44:07 GMT -5
Good luck and congratulations.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Sept 8, 2014 22:07:40 GMT -5
Well, I'm excited for you! Does the new job have any timeline? Will you need to move?
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Sept 8, 2014 23:01:32 GMT -5
Good luck, Phoenix !!!
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Sept 9, 2014 7:17:25 GMT -5
Tennesseer is probably right. If whatever supposed misconduct I had was severe enough to get me fired, it would have warranted a more immediate response.
I have been thinking about what I'll say if a senior manager does want to discuss this situation with me. It's hard because I don't know exactly what questions will be asked or how they'll be phrased.
But, I plan on telling the truth and giving an accurate account of what happened from my perspective and keep emotion, speculation, opinions, and any personal feelings out of it. If I discuss my boss, I plan on sticking to her actions and not making anything personal. If I do discuss any opinions, it will just be describing my reactions to her actions, but again, not making it personal.
I also plan on acknowledging that I made a mistake and apologizing, and don't plan on repeating it.
Do you have any kind of relationship with the senior manager? Have you met him/her previously? Possibly strictly business only? I'm just curious. And thanks for the update.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 9, 2014 8:43:27 GMT -5
Well, I'm excited for you! Does the new job have any timeline? Will you need to move? There's no specific timeline as I mentioned.
I accepted the job, they asked for my SSN, DOB, and place of birth, and I gave them the info and nothing has happened since. So I'm just waiting for them to contact me with further instructions or requests.
Yes, I will need to move across the country to the east coast.
I've always had a touché of insomnia and adapting back to east coast time will be a little difficult, but I think I'll manage.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 9, 2014 8:43:44 GMT -5
Good luck man, and let us know how it turns out/if you decide to take the job! Thanks, I already accepted the job.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 9, 2014 8:45:59 GMT -5
Do you have any kind of relationship with the senior manager? Have you met him/her previously? Possibly strictly business only? I'm just curious. And thanks for the update. I don't know if I'd call it a "relationship." She's in California and I'm outside California. We have meet before but mostly just to shake hands and say "hi." That said, I've known her a lot longer than I've known my current boss. I'm sure she's probably aware I've been a good employee for the years leading up to this incident. But she is responsible for a lot of employees and I doubt I stuck out much until recently.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 9, 2014 9:13:56 GMT -5
Phoenix-your senior manager may simply want to conduct an exit interview with you.
A suggestion if you do not mind: make sure you burn no bridges if an exit interview is in fact going to occur. You never know when a better future opportunity may open within your current employer and they want to consider you.
If possible, always leave an employer wishing you had remained with them.
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justme
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Post by justme on Sept 9, 2014 10:11:21 GMT -5
It wouldn't be an exit interview for Phoenix leaving - he hasn't put it notice. Government jobs move so slow from acceptance to actual starting the job. So if she is there for an exit interview, that's not a good thing for Phoenix at the moment.
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 9, 2014 10:17:02 GMT -5
It wouldn't be an exit interview for Phoenix leaving - he hasn't put it notice. Government jobs move so slow from acceptance to actual starting the job. So if she is there for an exit interview, that's not a good thing for Phoenix at the moment. This is what Tennesseer is gently trying to prepare Phoenix for. The point is to know in advance that there may be an exit interview and to be mentally prepared to understand that nothing you say can help you keep the job at that point, but to be smart so you don't say something that jeopardizes future opportunities.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Sept 9, 2014 10:17:08 GMT -5
I'm thinking she's coming because it's her standard "tour" of her staff or because she's been told enough to know she needs to eyeball the situation and/or talk to Phoenix.
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justme
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Post by justme on Sept 9, 2014 10:20:03 GMT -5
It wouldn't be an exit interview for Phoenix leaving - he hasn't put it notice. Government jobs move so slow from acceptance to actual starting the job. So if she is there for an exit interview, that's not a good thing for Phoenix at the moment. This is what Tennesseer is gently trying to prepare Phoenix for. The point is to know in advance that there may be an exit interview and to be mentally prepared to understand that nothing you say can help you keep the job at that point, but to be smart so you don't say something that jeopardizes future opportunities. Oh, I didn't think that's what he was doing since he said above Phoenix shouldn't worry about getting fired for misconduct so long after the event happened.
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 9, 2014 10:22:34 GMT -5
I could be wrong. Like Lena, I've been wrong before.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Sept 9, 2014 10:25:40 GMT -5
It could also be that the senior manager is checking on the vibe of the place. It would not go unnoticed that shortly after they have a new manager on of their "formerly good" employees gets moved to a "time filler" position. It could be that they are checking on Phoenix, or the manager or both.
But I do think that if the senior manager asks to speak with you, I think it is fair to tell her that you have been struggling with the change from an autonomous position to one where you have to write down your every move, including bathroom breaks. That you have tried to meet managers needs, but that you don't feel you are getting clear direction on what she wants and that you two got off on the wrong foot because you didnt realize it was so important to her to know where you were at all times.
If you say you are struggling, it looks less like your trying to throw manager under the bus.
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