Racism on parade part 2- cops, thugs, looting, Obama,& more

[EVT1]

Well you can't have the facts when there are different versions of events, now can you.

And anyway I'd feel better if the guy was being actively attacked while shooting him- because the alternative sucks.

[Shooby]

I have said I think cops should have stun guns or other nonlethal ways to subdue someone

[djAdvocate]

Aug 20, 2014 21:59:32 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Does the officer (not get) presumption of innocence?

of course.  does the victim not get the same presumption?

[mmhmm]

Aug 20, 2014 22:37:54 GMT -5 Shooby said:

The facts are emerging. Sorry u don't like them but they are what they are.

The facts will emerge when the facts are determined. That hasn't happened yet.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 20, 2014 23:09:49 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Well you can't have the facts when there are different versions of events, now can you.

And anyway I'd feel better if the guy was being actively attacked while shooting him- because the alternative sucks.

It seems the police officer was in fact being actively attacked.  More than a dozen eyewitnesses tell the same story the police officer told- the Mr. Brown immediately attacked him when he pulled up, went for his gun to the point where the gun discharged in the police vehicle, fled, but then doubled back for a second attack on the officer- who at the time had already had his face broken by the 'gentle giant'.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 20, 2014 20:36:08 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

Aug 20, 2014 20:30:03 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Or they'd loot what store keepers that haven't been looted yet.

That's exactly what I was thinking - if the police had left them to themselves expecting them to "calm down", there'd be rioting, looting, arson, and who-knows-what else going on?

How about this- how about no police to start with.  Then, if there's violence and the police are summoned, they'd have an actual reason to be there.  These people that are causing the trouble are outsiders actively looking for confrontation with police.  Store owners can defend their own stores.  Like I said- a couple of hollow points through the face of one of these idiots is all it would take.  

[Shooby]

So far the only ones who keep changing their story are Brown's side. His friend failed to mention the robbery at the convenience store. His friend failed to mention the cop was bashed in the face by Brown. His friend said he was running away. Well, curiously, all the shots were from the front. The story keeps changing but the law's side has remained consistent.

[Shooby]

A lot of the problems now aren't coming from the people of Ferguson but from outside agitators coming in. Most of the arrests aren't even people from that town.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Aug 20, 2014 23:05:38 GMT -5 resolution said:

Aug 20, 2014 22:04:49 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Fine. Then don't pretend that is the reason

Most of us care way more about the civil rights violations that are going on in the current police action than what happened in that specific encounter that triggered the demonstrations.

What civil rights are being violated exactly?  This is an honest question.  I don't see it that way and it's more than possible I'm missing something. 

[Shooby]

So how does looting stores correct that btw? ANd, yes, what civil rights are being violated?

[Value Buy]

Everyone in this town "wants justice".

My problem with this right now, this is simple racism, for "punish the policeman and find him guilty".

What happens if he is found to have followed procedure, and was attacked?

Will justice be served here, or does he have to be found guilty as currently accused for "justice to be accomplished"?

[PK Bucko]

Aug 21, 2014 8:42:22 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Everyone in this town "wants justice".

My problem with this right now, this is simple racism, for "punish the policeman and find him guilty".

What happens if he is found to have followed procedure, and was attacked?

Will justice be served here, or does he have to be found guilty as currently accused for "justice to be accomplished"?

That's the twenty five cent question. As more and more evidence comes out, it looks like the officer will have been justified in his actions. The case is before the grand jury right now. If they decide not to indict, I cannot imagine what it will be like on the streets.

[resolution]

Aug 21, 2014 8:37:01 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Aug 20, 2014 23:05:38 GMT -5 resolution said:

Most of us care way more about the civil rights violations that are going on in the current police action than what happened in that specific encounter that triggered the demonstrations.

What civil rights are being violated exactly?  This is an honest question.  I don't see it that way and it's more than possible I'm missing something. 

Mainly the first and fourth amendments. Freedom of speech and people that are being arrested without cause, not violating any curfew orders, or for being in their own back yards or smoking in their own driveways.

It is also alarming all the footage of police pointing rifles at people with hands on the trigger when the people are just standing there with hands raised. Lots of military are commenting they are trained never to point a gun at someone you aren't willing to shoot.

I agree there are a lot of criminals there at this point (many from out of town)  with the looting and burning of buildings, and I don't have any clue about what happened in the initial confrontation; it is the police response to the general public that concerns me.

[Shooby]

How about THEY actually listen to the FACTS? How about finding out the FACTS BEFORE looting?

[Tennesseer]

Aug 21, 2014 9:19:00 GMT -5 Shooby said:

How about THEY actually listen to the FACTS? How about finding out the FACTS BEFORE looting?

The FACTS did not start coming out until well after the looting began.  The police and governor screwed that up.

[Shooby]

So, don't LOOT until you know WHY you are supposedly smashing store windows to get free stuff. Sheesh.

[resolution]

Aug 21, 2014 9:25:06 GMT -5 Shooby said:

So, don't LOOT until you know WHY you are supposedly smashing store windows to get free stuff. Sheesh.

I think the looters are an undisciplined mob of people that don't have anything to lose. I doubt they cared about what really happened one way or the other but just took advantage of the chaos going on.

[Shooby]

So, then looting isn't about "justice and racism"? Just smash and grab to get free stuff. Oh ok. Guess it depends on what narrative they are trying to spin.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Aug 21, 2014 9:18:20 GMT -5 resolution said:

Aug 21, 2014 8:37:01 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

What civil rights are being violated exactly?  This is an honest question.  I don't see it that way and it's more than possible I'm missing something. 

Mainly the first and fourth amendments. Freedom of speech and people that are being arrested without cause, not violating any curfew orders, or for being in their own back yards or smoking in their own driveways.

It is also alarming all the footage of police pointing rifles at people with hands on the trigger when the people are just standing there with hands raised. Lots of military are commenting they are trained never to point a gun at someone you aren't willing to shoot.

I agree there are a lot of criminals there at this point (many from out of town)  with the looting and burning of buildings, and I don't have any clue about what happened in the initial confrontation; it is the police response to the general public that concerns me.

You make good points.  I don't agree anybody's freedom of speech or right to assembly is being violated.  They are allowed to protest peacefully - they just aren't allowed to impede others from going on with their day.  It's no different than abortion protesters not being allowed to block the entrance of clinics.  They may protest, but there are rules in place.  Same thing.

I honestly haven't read about anybody being arrested without cause.  As I've said before, just because charges aren't filed the next day doesn't mean they were arrested without cause.  I will do some more reading.  From what I've read, people are being arrested for not following the directives given.  That happens all the time - every day - and it's no civil rights violation.  I did see one case of two reporters and something about not coming out of the restroom.  That one did make me wonder.

The pointing rifle thing?  Absolutely.  I was horrified to see that video and that man should be fired immediately.  But that's one guy (that I saw) and I can't agree that counts as a sweeping civil rights violation.  It's terrible and he should be punished but that doesn't make a case for sweeping civil rights violations.

I can't agree that any of this makes for sweeping civil rights violations and I'd want the same things done if this were my community. 

Thanks.  I need to do more reading.

[Tennesseer]

Aug 21, 2014 9:28:50 GMT -5 Shooby said:

So, then looting isn't about "justice and racism"? Just smash and grab to get free stuff. Oh ok. Guess it depends on what narrative they are trying to spin.

Do you really think those who are peacefully protesting during the daytime and evening then  begin looting for shits and giggles?  If you do, then you really know nothing about what is going on in Ferguson.  

[PK Bucko]

Aug 21, 2014 9:23:36 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Aug 21, 2014 9:19:00 GMT -5 Shooby said:

How about THEY actually listen to the FACTS? How about finding out the FACTS BEFORE looting?

The FACTS did not start coming out until well after the looting began.  The police and governor screwed that up.

The police and governor screwed the pooch big time. But that is no excuse for the riots and looting.

[Tennesseer]

Aug 21, 2014 9:44:49 GMT -5 PK Bucko said:

Aug 21, 2014 9:23:36 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The FACTS did not start coming out until well after the looting began.  The police and governor screwed that up.

The police and governor screwed the pooch big time. But that is no excuse for the riots and looting.

No it is not.  Nor have I even implied it.  As has been previously mentioned in this thread, many of the looters are allegedly not from Ferguson and are coming from other areas to take advantage of the situation.

[PK Bucko]

Aug 21, 2014 9:47:39 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Aug 21, 2014 9:44:49 GMT -5 PK Bucko said:

The police and governor screwed the pooch big time. But that is no excuse for the riots and looting.

No it is not.  Nor have I even implied it.  As has been previously mentioned in this thread, many of the looters are allegedly not from Ferguson and are coming from other areas to take advantage of the situation.

It's true that many of them are from out of town. And not just the surrounding areas either. From the west coast in some cases. I keep wondering who is footing the bill for room and board for those morons. 

[Tennesseer]

Aug 21, 2014 9:50:15 GMT -5 PK Bucko said:

Aug 21, 2014 9:47:39 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

No it is not.  Nor have I even implied it.  As has been previously mentioned in this thread, many of the looters are allegedly not from Ferguson and are coming from other areas to take advantage of the situation.

It's true that many of them are from out of town. And not just the surrounding areas either. From the west coast in some cases. I keep wondering who is footing the bill for room and board for those morons. 

The street corner sales of stolen TVs, microwaves, cigarettes, etc.?

[PK Bucko]

Aug 21, 2014 9:52:31 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Aug 21, 2014 9:50:15 GMT -5 PK Bucko said:

It's true that many of them are from out of town. And not just the surrounding areas either. From the west coast in some cases. I keep wondering who is footing the bill for room and board for those morons. 

The street corner sales of stolen TVs, microwaves, cigarettes, etc.?

LMAO I guess that's just as plausible as anything else I've heard.

[resolution]

I think we are all in agreement that the looters and arsonists need to be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The issue I see is the peaceful protesters and journalists being lumped in together with the criminals.

[Tennesseer]

Aug 21, 2014 10:08:30 GMT -5 resolution said:

I think we are all in agreement that the looters and arsonists need to be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The issue I see is the peaceful protesters and journalists being lumped in together with the criminals.

Bingo.  And at least one poster is completely unable to separate the two.

[PK Bucko]

Aug 21, 2014 10:08:30 GMT -5 resolution said:

I think we are all in agreement that the looters and arsonists need to be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The issue I see is the peaceful protesters and journalists being lumped in together with the criminals.

If it was easy to keep the criminal element separated from the legitimate protesters, this wouldn't be an issue. The peaceful protesters and media have, in some cases had to be moved for their own protection. The idiot looters make it their business to muddy the waters and mix with people that have nothing to do with them.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Aug 21, 2014 10:08:30 GMT -5 resolution said:

I think we are all in agreement that the looters and arsonists need to be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The issue I see is the peaceful protesters and journalists being lumped in together with the criminals.

I agree....with the exception of the press.  For some reason, some members of the press feel they have a different set of rules and don't have to follow the directions ordinary citizens have to follow.  If they are impeding law enforcement, they should be arrested and prosecuted just like you and I would be.  I don't think they get a pass just because they are reporters.

HOWEVER, if the intent of their arrests was an attempt to hide from the public what is really going on, I'd feel completely different.  I don't know the reasons, so I can't say.

[kent]

t's true that many of them are from out of town. And not just the surrounding areas either. From the west coast in some cases.

Faux News reported only 4 of the 78 arrested the other day were from Ferguson

ETA  Might I add?

In part from: www.billoreilly.com/currentcolumn

They are drawn like moths to a flame. In this case, an inferno. Press, pundits, politicians, and provocateurs rub their hands together with glee when there is a racial incident like the one in Ferguson, especially when the actors in this oft-repeated drama are cast in the proper roles. If the victim is black and the shooter white, analysts and agitators saddle up and ride to the scene, verbal guns blazing.

To be sure, all fair-minded Americans should be concerned when an unarmed citizen is shot six times by a police officer. Any citizen, whatever his race or age or size or state of mind. Because the shooter, in this case officer Darren Wilson, wears a badge and represents the government, a full investigation is required.

But some of the protesters don't give a fig about the late Michael Brown or the investigation. Many are thugs and anarchists, America-haters who come from distant places hoping to inflict damage on the country they loathe. The trouble-makers and the mayhem they create are always irresistible to reporters, whose bright lights attract even more bad guys. It is the most vicious of vicious cycles.

Not surprisingly, the circus-like atmosphere in Ferguson has inspired some absolutely asinine analysis. Even CNN's Jake Tapper.......