Only in America- 5yo shoots/kills 5yo and it's an 'accident'

[Tennesseer]

Aug 9, 2014 15:57:20 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Both my parents smoked. Lighters all over the house. No gas cans inside though but certainly in garage.

As a toddler, I had a thing for common pins and electrical outlets.  It was shocking I tell ya!

[Deleted]

Aug 9, 2014 15:57:20 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Both my parents smoked. Lighters all over the house. No gas cans inside though but certainly in garage.

My Father and his wife didn't smoke, but we used candles and cooked on charcoal, and had other reasons for needing fire. lighters were readily available to anyone that could open a cabinet.

My Mother, on the other hand DID smoke (as did her husband), at her house lighters were EVERYWHERE.

Gas at both places was in the garage by the mower.


Wasn't even an issue for us kids because we were brought up by parents who actually parented us, and taught us "right" from "wrong" and "safe" from "unsafe".

[Deleted]

Aug 9, 2014 15:57:20 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Both my parents smoked. Lighters all over the house. No gas cans inside though but certainly in garage.

I have a male relative, who at a young age and being unsupervised, filled a plastic milk jug with gas and used it to start a pile of leaves on fire. Once the fire started, he set the partially filled jug on the ground next to where he was standing. The gas either melted the jug or there was gas spilled outside the jug but either way the jug caught fire and caught the boy on fire. Over half of his body was burned and and he went through hell in a burn clinic. To this day he still has scars.  The boy is now a man and he is now our town's fire chief. 

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

The gas either melted the jug or there was gas spilled outside the jug but either way the jug caught fire and caught the boy on fire.

If the jug was left on the ground close to the fire, it could have been something as simple as gas fumes coming out the top of the jug being ignited by one spark - or a few dribbles of gasoline on the ground and on the jug after drenching the leaves in it and igniting the pyre.

I once again would blame the adult for not having the gasoline stored on a shelf high enough out of the way that a small kid can't get access to it.

Again, that's not entirely the kid's fault The stuff should have been properly stored, and the kid taught not to touch.

My dad smoked - Bic lighters weren't even a dream yet - he used either matches, or a Zippo lighter - which got re-filled with lighter fluid. All were left out in the open.

We were taught very young not to touch any of it - he also used solvents and and other flammable chemicals.

It wasn't until my brothers and I were older that we were allowed to go near anything like that stored either in the basement or garage - then we were taught how to use it (proper ventilation, etc)

Even our first barbecue was a charcoal grill - that needed fluid to start the coals burning - again, done only by a parent or under supervision.

[EVT1]

Aug 9, 2014 19:09:38 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Aug 9, 2014 15:57:20 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Both my parents smoked. Lighters all over the house. No gas cans inside though but certainly in garage.

I have a male relative, who at a young age and being unsupervised, filled a plastic milk jug with gas and used it to start a pile of leaves on fire. Once the fire started, he set the partially filled jug on the ground next to where he was standing. The gas either melted the jug or there was gas spilled outside the jug but either way the jug caught fire and caught the boy on fire. Over half of his body was burned and and he went through hell in a burn clinic. To this day he still has scars.  The boy is now a man and he is now our town's fire chief. 

We had neighborhood kid, while unsupervised that grabbed his dad's gun of a table and shot himself.  Today that kid is still a corpse.

[zibazinski]

That's too bad. My parents kept their guns in their room and in closets. I didn't go into them when I was younger. Being told to not open doors that didnt belong to me as in my bedroom or bathroom was a deterrent. Even if I had opened them, I wouldn't have touched something that didnt belong to me and those guns definitely did not. But then again, I knew the consequences for disobeying my parents.

[zibazinski]

Not clear above, my bedroom and bathroom were doors I could open at any time. Any shut doors were not to be opened by me unless an adult was in there and said I could enter. The consequences wouldn't have been some time out or a lecture.

[Deleted]

Aug 10, 2014 7:03:45 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Not clear above, my bedroom and bathroom were doors I could open at any time. Any shut doors were not to be opened by me unless an adult was in there and said I could enter. The consequences wouldn't have been some time out or a lecture.

Same here. I don't know whether if was out of fear or respect, and I can't remember how far back it started, but I or any of my siblings would have rather walked over hot coals than to have crossed our parents. Touch one of their guns? Hah!! Like right.

[Deleted]

Aug 9, 2014 22:53:19 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Aug 9, 2014 19:09:38 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

I have a male relative, who at a young age and being unsupervised, filled a plastic milk jug with gas and used it to start a pile of leaves on fire. Once the fire started, he set the partially filled jug on the ground next to where he was standing. The gas either melted the jug or there was gas spilled outside the jug but either way the jug caught fire and caught the boy on fire. Over half of his body was burned and and he went through hell in a burn clinic. To this day he still has scars.  The boy is now a man and he is now our town's fire chief. 

We had neighborhood kid, while unsupervised that grabbed his dad's gun of a table and shot himself.  Today that kid is still a corpse.

Okay, now I suppose I should go dig up a dozen cases where an available gun saved someone's life?
Naw...I don't think so.

[zibazinski]

Don't feed the troll.

[zibazinski]

I have to admit, my parents and other adults I knew not only now but in my youth, did not use guns as decorations for coffee tables.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Aug 10, 2014 7:03:45 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Not clear above, my bedroom and bathroom were doors I could open at any time. Any shut doors were not to be opened by me unless an adult was in there and said I could enter. The consequences wouldn't have been some time out or a lecture.

That made me laugh, Zib.  My parents were NOT progressive with their punishments.  You got your ass kicked...period.  Of course, that was harmful because I turned out to be a responsible adult.

[EVT1]

Aug 10, 2014 9:17:21 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Aug 9, 2014 22:53:19 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

We had neighborhood kid, while unsupervised that grabbed his dad's gun of a table and shot himself.  Today that kid is still a corpse.

Okay, now I suppose I should go dig up a dozen cases where an available gun saved someone's life?
Naw...I don't think so.

Define available? I would love to hear about all of the crimes stopped by 'responsible' gun owners that keep their loaded weapons lying around the house in easy reach of anyone.

Tell you what- for every case you find I will find ten where a child was shot.

Glad so many people have perfect kids that always obey their parents- otherwise known as naïve people.  Maybe a few of you didn't touch things you were not supposed to- but if you trust your own kids to be just like you that is a giant mistake. But- leave your guns out- take your chances- I am betting you won't. 

[zibazinski]

My kids were not raised as strictly as I was. They're not perfect either. On the other hand, they also aren't assholes, for which I'm glad. I know too many people who don't like their own kids-with good reason.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 2, 2014 19:11:12 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

I am ALL for gun ownership... by responsible adults.

The gun owner should be charged for "negligent homicide". A 5 year old doesn't understand consequences. An adult should.

totally agree with Richard, here.  until adults start paying for these crimes, they will continue unabated.

[EVT1]

And here we go again- another 'accident' Sunday night with a 7yo dead.

www.wsmv.com/story/26247923/police-child-dead-after-accidental-shooting-white-county

     Hills' grandfather, Dana Buck, said he was in the living room watching TV when he heard a shot. He ran to the bedroom and found Hills, who had accidentally shot himself with a pistol.

     Police said Hills got a hold of the gun and accidentally fired it, striking himself.

Home invaders stopped 0, dead kids 1.  And of course:

     No charges are expected to be filed in this case

So yep- this is going to continue- so much for caring about 'the children'.

 

[zibazinski]

A kid in a bedroom that didnt belong to him with a gun probably in the nightstand. It could happen to me which is why kids aren't allowed in my home. But if they were, the gun would be locked up.

[EVT1]

 No kidding- if you are that worried that you need a loaded gun at the ready then it should be in a holster on the person- if not then that's what gun safes are for. 100% preventable- not an 'accident' in any sense of the word- negligent gun owner.

[Deleted]

Aug 12, 2014 12:51:37 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

And here we go again- another 'accident' Sunday night with a 7yo dead.

www.wsmv.com/story/26247923/police-child-dead-after-accidental-shooting-white-county

     Hills' grandfather, Dana Buck, said he was in the living room watching TV when he heard a shot. He ran to the bedroom and found Hills, who had accidentally shot himself with a pistol.

     Police said Hills got a hold of the gun and accidentally fired it, striking himself.

Home invaders stopped 0, dead kids 1.  And of course:

     No charges are expected to be filed in this case

So yep- this is going to continue- so much for caring about 'the children'.

The bolded is the problem. Maybe if more gun owners were held accountable for their own lack of safety things like this would happen less and less.

The gun owner needs to do time. It would suck, but it's necessary for people to know there are also consequences OTHER THAN a dead/injured child in cases like this.

[zibazinski]

Was he actually supposed to be watching the child or was someone else supposed to be? The child's parents were unaware that the man had a gun in his home?

[EVT1]

And that's the whole point- I'd like to think most gun owners are not this irresponsible- or worse naïve thinking their kids know better.

It isn't too much to add criminal penalties for something like this- a strict liability offense- just like DWI.  Intent has nothing to do with it- you do it and get caught you are in trouble and forfeit your right to own guns.  That might even be enough without jail time.

I'd like to think of the families where their child is visiting another and gets killed- not just those that kill themselves or siblings.  You would think the NRA could do a little more and support such a requirement to keep guns safe when children are present.  Keep it on you or lock it in a drawer, safe, etc.   

And if anyone thinks older kids can be trusted I have a bridge to sell you- a buddy of mine blew a hole in the wall with his dad's gun rocking to Metallica-  scared the shit out of him!  Unloaded gun face should be a thing- the look on someone's face when a gun goes off they think is unloaded is priceless.

Of that I am certain- no matter how well you teach them- at some point the gun is coming out when friends are over if they have access to it.

[zibazinski]

What's odd about this is that you are taught in class to keep your gun locked. When I had kids in the home, I didn't have a gun, period. If I had, it wouldn't be in my nightstand or an easy place to access. I could trust DS, DD was a bundle of trouble. If I'm ever a grandma, I will be babysitting in their home not mine.

[EVT1]

Aug 12, 2014 18:52:51 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Was he actually supposed to be watching the child or was someone else supposed to be? The child's parents were unaware that the man had a gun in his home?

Didn't say other than the kid was at the grandparent's house and they were in the process of adopting him.

And worse- the grandmother had the gun because she had been stalked by an ex-husband.  She was at church when it happened- and to that I say lady you should have had it in a holster with you- you can carry in church now. 

Maybe a bad miscommunication- someone on the commentary said they thought it was unloaded/clip out but one was still in the barrel- who knows if that was the case.  Doesn't really matter as the key item to keep away from the kid is the gun- and I do feel sorry for everyone involved but this should not be happening- it is too easy to prevent.

[zibazinski]

That is sad. 

[EVT1]

Aug 12, 2014 19:07:23 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

What's odd about this is that you are taught in class to keep your gun locked. When I had kids in the home, I didn't have a gun, period. If I had, it wouldn't be in my nightstand or an easy place to access. I could trust DS, DD was a bundle of trouble. If I'm ever a grandma, I will be babysitting in their home not mine.

Just a trigger lock will do.  My Bersa has one built into it- has a safe/fire switch that uses a small key- great idea- I wish more pistols had that option.

[zibazinski]

When did they start allowing carrying in church? We do but we carry concealed and keep our mouths shut because it isn't allowed.

[EVT1]

Depends on your state- we can carry just about everywhere here- and open carry at that.  She had that option here.

As long as it isn't posted that you cannot.

[Deleted]

Aug 12, 2014 18:52:51 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Was he actually supposed to be watching the child or was someone else supposed to be? The child's parents were unaware that the man had a gun in his home?

Doesn't matter if he was supposed to be watching the child or not. It's the gun owner's gun and the child was known to be in the gun owner's home.

[zibazinski]

Thought it was grandmas 

[Deleted]

Aug 12, 2014 19:40:46 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Thought it was grandmas 

I was typing in generalities about gun ownership and accidents in general... I edited it to reflect that.