Only in America- 5yo shoots/kills 5yo and it's an 'accident'

[zibazinski]

Dangerous cribs.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Aug 4, 2014 20:51:23 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Aug 4, 2014 18:24:58 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Again, you are so intent on arguing that you don't read:


Nobody does either on purpose (the purpose of someone getting hurt).

My post exactly.  I was very clear.  I've made sure of that because I obviously haven't been in the past.  I never said they don't leave their guns out on purpose.  I said, and very clearly, that the purpose wasn't for someone to get hurt.  So?  I am not wrong unless you are, also, because we said the same thing.   People don't intend their children to die from drinking Drano either - even though they intentionally left it on the counter, telling their kids not to drink it.  They still die.  There is no difference.  You prosecute one - you prosecute them all, IMO.  I have no answer as to when intentions absolve someone for an obviously reckless act.  I just know I can't pick and choose according to what pisses me off the most. 

So under that theory- if I decide to leave a loaded shotgun, one in the chamber with the safety off leaning in the corner of my den and my 5yo kills my 6yo it is not my fault since I didn't intend for it to happen.  It is an accident- correct? (This has happened to people)

BTW there is a reason there are childproof caps on pills, cabinet stoppers, wall socket covers, and a bunch of other shit that people that are concerned about their children use- I would think a quick access pistol box would be on that list.  Drano doesn't scare me- it tastes like shit I am sure, and I doubt one kid is gong to feed it to another or to a neighbor's kid (at least at that age ).  But a loaded weapon- that is the most dangerous thing you can leave lying around- probably doesn't help cartoons have guns in them that don't hurt people- and that's another topic- but probably not a good plan to show young children that you can stick your finger in a barrel or get shot in the face and all it does is blow your hair back and char you for a few minutes......

Yeah. That's exactly what I said.   The definition of insanity....

[Shooby]

Having guns and expecting young children to not " touch" the guns is putting all the responsibility on the young child rather than tbe adult. The adult should be responsible for securing the guns so that there would be no way for a small child to get their hands on it.
Yeah we had guns in tge the closet and we respected that , blah blah. Its a different world now.

[Deleted]

Aug 4, 2014 22:09:24 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Having guns and expecting young children to not " touch" the guns is putting all the responsibility on the young child rather than tbe adult. The adult should be responsible for securing the guns so that there would be no way for a small child to get their hands on it.
Yeah we had guns in tge the closet and we respected that , blah blah. Its a different world now.

While I agree that the adult should be responsible for securing the guns... the adult should also be responsible for teaching the kids properly (and not just about guns). That's the bigger problem. Adults don't teach the kids properly anymore.

We need to go back to the good old days of spankings, REAL "groundings", mouths washed out with soap, and other "barbaric" punishments that people of my generation somehow managed to survive just fine when we were kids.

[EVT1]

Aug 4, 2014 22:23:20 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Aug 4, 2014 22:09:24 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Having guns and expecting young children to not " touch" the guns is putting all the responsibility on the young child rather than tbe adult. The adult should be responsible for securing the guns so that there would be no way for a small child to get their hands on it.
Yeah we had guns in tge the closet and we respected that , blah blah. Its a different world now.

While I agree that the adult should be responsible for securing the guns... the adult should also be responsible for teaching the kids properly (and not just about guns). That's the bigger problem. Adults don't teach the kids properly anymore.

We need to go back to the good old days of spankings, REAL "groundings", mouths washed out with soap, and other "barbaric" punishments that people of my generation somehow managed to survive just fine when we were kids.

No shit- but some fruitcake will call the cops on you for rightfully beating the ass of your kid that walks into a road.

I ate soap and was visited by the switch- solid lesson- like a hot stove.

I never set foot in a street again (for a long while) after my mother grabbed me and let me have it. 

I was raised in a gun household- I had a bb gun in second grade and shot out my neighbor's bedroom window- got my ass lit for that.

What I did not know until I was around 11 is that we had real guns in the house.  

[Shooby]

Aug 4, 2014 22:23:20 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Aug 4, 2014 22:09:24 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Having guns and expecting young children to not " touch" the guns is putting all the responsibility on the young child rather than tbe adult. The adult should be responsible for securing the guns so that there would be no way for a small child to get their hands on it.
Yeah we had guns in tge the closet and we respected that , blah blah. Its a different world now.

While I agree that the adult should be responsible for securing the guns... the adult should also be responsible for teaching the kids properly (and not just about guns). That's the bigger problem. Adults don't teach the kids properly anymore.

We need to go back to the good old days of spankings, REAL "groundings", mouths washed out with soap, and other "barbaric" punishments that people of my generation somehow managed to survive just fine when we were kids.

Yes. Teach gun safety of course. But we child proof our houses. We don't leave 5 yr olds home alone or give them power tools. Why would wenot secure our guns?

[zibazinski]

I believe we should secure our guns. My parents guns were in their nightstands and their bedroom closets. I didn't go into my parents closets or their night stands. I didn't go into their bedroom without permission and never ever when they weren't in there themselves. Boundaries need to be taught and reinforced. This "child cult" is raising children with no boundaries and it isn't good for them or anyone around them.

[zibazinski]

I also didnt open medicine bottles of any kind. It wouldn't have occurred to me to get into something that wasnt mine without asking permission. I'm sure when I was too young to understand NO, things were put in medicine cabinets and out of my reach. But I remember and I even have bad stuff now, things under the sink that I could have gotten into. You just didnt do it. NO was NO and if you didn't follow NO, NO was reinforced in a way you did remember.

[Shooby]

Yes but this is a different time. We have media , people , etc everywhere constantly trying to undermine parents. So you have to take that into consideration that Columbine or school shoitings , etc were not in our minds back then. Times have changed and we haveto adapt. Do you reareally want your kidspplaying at someone's house who is lax with guns ? Your kids might not touch them but do you trust you know what is in the mind of other kids.?

[zibazinski]

True enough. Before my kids were allowed to play at others kids homes, I asked the parents about guns. Nice enough, my kids played with neighborhood kids so I knew the parents but still, I asked. Judging by expressions, I was the first one to ever do so. My parents never asked other parents that but times have changed. Btw, when my kids were young, I'd didn't have guns in the house. I sold mine soon after I had DS. I also didnt have rules about my kids coming into my bedroom. If I wanted private time, I shut and locked the door. The kids knew unless they were bleeding, not to even knock.

[zibazinski]

I also did the safety latches but only because I was a lazy parent who didnt feel like storing cleaning supplies out of reach.

[zibazinski]

Child proof caps? I had my kids remove those for me because I couldn't remove them myself.

[Shooby]

We do a lot of safety things our parents didn't do. Car seats , child locks, bike helmets, and so forth. Gunsare lethal and not ssomething to be lax about. No way in heck do should guns be available. And it isn't just little kids but teens are very emotional and impulsive. Why temptfate ? JJust to "prove" you taught them " better"?

[zibazinski]

Yes, teens are emotional and impulsive. But are they also morons? I'm going to assume that kids today are at least book smarter than even their parents were at that same age. If kids are that uncontrollable and crazy maybe they'd best be locked up for their own good, huh? Because we certainly can't trust emotional roller coasters not to go crazy and shoot someone. This just gives more excuses for inappropriate behavior. You can have a bad day and go cry in your pillow for awhile. That's no excuse to shoot someone. Not teaching kids that everyone has bad days and eat some chocolate or ice cream or go for a run or some healthy way of expressing sadness cripples them. Teach coping skills and that the whole world doesn't revolve around them and you give them skills to last a lifetime.

[Tennesseer]

Even some adults are careless with guns. Take for example the cautionary tale of 'The Final Selfie'.

Man accidentally kills himself taking gun-toting selfie

A fun night drinking with friends turned tragic for a man in Mexico, who died when he posed with a gun to shoot a selfie, but accidentally fired the weapon.

Oscar Otero Aguilar was enjoying a booze-filled night with two buddies last weekend in Mexico City when he picked up his .45-caliber pistol and thought it would be a good idea to take a picture of himself, Mexico’s Proceso magazine reports.

But when the 21-year-old went to take the killer selfie, he accidentally pulled the trigger of the wood-handled pistol, firing off a single round into his forehead, according to police.

After officers found Aguilar dead at the scene, one of his friends, Omar Abner Campos Vives, was arrested, while his other buddy, known as “El Paco,” somehow escaped and is currently on the run.

Despite this, the Ministry of Public Security said they believed Aguilar’s death was an accident and that the selfie was supposed to be posted to Facebook, Proceso reports.

Man accidentally kills himself taking gun-toting selfie

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[zibazinski]

Oh, boy. I'm thinking this might make the top of the stupid list.

[Shooby]

Yeah Zib, some teens are morons . At least in the moment. There are kids on youtube setting themselves on fire. Hello.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Aug 5, 2014 8:57:03 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Yeah Zib, some teens are morons . At least in the moment. There are kids on youtube setting themselves on fire. Hello.

This idiot is not a teen.  21 is considered an adult by just about every metric.

[zibazinski]

If they are that dumb, they either had parents who shouldn't have reproduced or I'm grateful they won't be able to. JC, setting themselves on fire? Morons. Morons having more morons.

[greeniis10]

This same thing just happened in my area on Monday.  A 9 year old initially got a gun from inside his house and then went out back with a 5 year old and 3 year old.  The 5 year old then took the gun and while "manipulating it" (as the story read) he shot the 3 year old.  The 3 year old had surgery and is in critical condition. 

Both parents were home and the father (22 years old) is being charged with "leaving the weapon unattended".  He had several other pending charges against him (unrelated to this) and neighbors say CPS and the police visit that house regularly.  Sad.  (BTW, I'm pretty sure the 22 year old is NOT the father of the 9 year old.)

[Deleted]

Aug 4, 2014 18:47:58 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Aug 4, 2014 18:20:54 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Tenn. It's not just gun laws. I'm just sick of our government telling me how to live my life.
I can't ride in my own car without having a seat belt on. I can't ride our motorcycle unless I am wearing a helmet. I can't build a new house without installing ugly, expensive, ceiling sprinklers. Now I can't store my gun as I see fit. What next? 

I cannot relate to your feelings of grand oppression.  What bothers you simply does not bother me.   We are simply different in outlook.

I know we differ in our outlooks and I often wonder why that is.

[Tennesseer]

Aug 8, 2014 20:13:47 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Aug 4, 2014 18:47:58 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I cannot relate to your feelings of grand oppression.  What bothers you simply does not bother me.   We are simply different in outlook.

I know we differ in our outlooks and I often wonder why that is.

You might be surprised how our outlooks may be the same on many things.  Just not on all things.  If we did, we would be Stepford people and that would not be good for either one of us.

[Shooby]

So no 5 yr olds anywhere else in the world have ever been shot by another kid,?

[Tennesseer]

Aug 8, 2014 20:23:30 GMT -5 Shooby said:

So no 5 yr olds anywhere else in the world have ever been shot by another kid,?

And out of the blue, Shooby comes ìn swinging at who knows what.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Aug 5, 2014 7:51:57 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Yes but this is a different time. We have media , people , etc everywhere constantly trying to undermine parents. So you have to take that into consideration that Columbine or school shoitings , etc were not in our minds back then. Times have changed and we haveto adapt. Do you reareally want your kidspplaying at someone's house who is lax with guns ? Your kids might not touch them but do you trust you know what is in the mind of other kids.?

It may be a new decade, or new generation, but "times" haven't changed all that much - people being caught up so much in their own lives, instead of the welfare of their own children has changed.

And incidents such as Columbine etc WERE on our minds back then - they just hadn't happened yet - because people were more responsible with the storing and safety of their weapons - PLUS weapons were less accessible - you had to go through strident screening to acquire one and get it registered (background checks, etc). Now there's so many black-market weapons out there, you can buy them "under the table" - PLUS many gun-owners aren't taking handling/storage/shooting lessons.

Put a weapon in the hands of someone who's not properly trained (AND LICENSED), and you have a disaster in the making.

[Deleted]

Hundreds of deaths are caused each year by children playing with fire.
Should we create a law making it mandatory to keep lighters and matches locked up?
Heck no! Make the offenders pay and leave the rest of us alone?
It's not more laws that we need, it's more responsible parents.

[Deleted]

Aug 8, 2014 20:37:38 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

Aug 5, 2014 7:51:57 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Yes but this is a different time. We have media , people , etc everywhere constantly trying to undermine parents. So you have to take that into consideration that Columbine or school shoitings , etc were not in our minds back then. Times have changed and we haveto adapt. Do you reareally want your kidspplaying at someone's house who is lax with guns ? Your kids might not touch them but do you trust you know what is in the mind of other kids.?

It may be a new decade, or new generation, but "times" haven't changed all that much - people being caught up so much in their own lives, instead of the welfare of their own children has changed.

And incidents such as Columbine etc WERE on our minds back then - they just hadn't happened yet - because people were more responsible with the storing and safety of their weapons - PLUS weapons were less accessible - you had to go through strident screening to acquire one and get it registered (background checks, etc). Now there's so many black-market weapons out there, you can buy them "under the table" - PLUS many gun-owners aren't taking handling/storage/shooting lessons.

Put a weapon in the hands of someone who's not properly trained (AND LICENSED), and you have a disaster in the making.

Add to that the fact that parents don't effectively discipline their kids anymore...

[Deleted]

Aug 8, 2014 20:52:19 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Hundreds of deaths are caused each year by children playing with fire.
Should we create a law making it mandatory to keep lighters and matches locked up?
Heck no! Make the offenders pay and leave the rest of us alone?
It's not more laws that we need, it's more responsible parents.

I quoted it just so I could  it again!

[EVT1]

Aug 8, 2014 20:52:19 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Hundreds of deaths are caused each year by children playing with fire.
Should we create a law making it mandatory to keep lighters and matches locked up?
Heck no! Make the offenders pay and leave the rest of us alone?
It's not more laws that we need, it's more responsible parents.

If parents start leaving lighters and gas cans on the coffee table we just might.

[zibazinski]

Both my parents smoked. Lighters all over the house. No gas cans inside though but certainly in garage.