Ebola

[geenamercile]

Who else is getting concerned about the Ebola virus and the fact that it seems to have made one trip on a plane already.  This place is always a pretty good sanity check for me and if I'm worried for nothing about something or not.  Part of me wonders how likely is it that this virus can travel across the ocean over here, although it seems if it does we are better equip to contain it.  I don't know, part of me is surprised that there isn't a vaccine for this yet considering how long it has been around.  But then I guess it has never really been much of a threat to us here.  

[resolution]

I am a bit concerned about how widespread this outbreak is getting. They are saying it has killed 60% of the people that contracted it, as opposed to the normal 90%, which makes me wonder if that is why it is spreading so much; people are living long enough to get to other places.

I have been pretty worried about my parents lately with this outbreak and all the planes going down. I keep checking their itinerary to reassure myself that they are just in Iceland and Greenland this month and not near any of the trouble shots.

[MarleyKeezy78]

Does it pass person to person? If not I wouldn't be to worried. Otherwise it could be a problem, but I really have no idea.

[resolution]

It passes very easily from person to person, it is extremely contagious and keeps killing health care workers even though they are in those hazmat suits. Unfortunately the area where it is spreading they do some kind of ritual cleansing of the dead to prepare for burial, which also spreads it to the people's relatives that are doing the cleansing.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

The virus passes in fluids expelled, which at this time the person is usually sick or dying.

From what I understand, the person gets so sick, so fast that it is usually the healthcare workers or those caring for them who catch it.

Viruses are interesting in that if it kills the vectors too fast, it the epidemic dies out.  This is the reason why the epidemic is so contained.  However, if the virus mutates such that it is not so fatal, that is when we should get worried.  As a benchmark, I think that smallpox had around a 30% mortality rate.  At the beginning of the 1918 flu epidemic, it was around 50%, and was more targeted at young (researchers think that a similar strain went through~15 years earlier which helped confer immunity to older people).  At the end, the virus also mutated so it did not kill as many....I think t dropped to around 20% or so.

There is a book called The Coming Plague by Laurie Garrett that describes what happens.  Rough reading, but really informative.

[Deleted]

I was watching something and they said that ebola is not airborne and is transmitted to people in that part of the world because they re-use medical supplies like syringes.

The interview was with the doctor who found the virus and he said that if they would use sanitary healthcare practices then the virus would not be a problem. He also said that the latest thinking is that the vector for ebola are bats.

[MarleyKeezy78]

Jul 27, 2014 9:33:16 GMT -5 resolution said:

It passes very easily from person to person, it is extremely contagious and keeps killing health care workers even though they are in those hazmat suits. Unfortunately the area where it is spreading they do some kind of ritual cleansing of the dead to prepare for burial, which also spreads it to the people's relatives that are doing the cleansing.

Oh, well then I would be more concerned then. I was thinking it was like malaria and passed on by mosquitos. They may have to start quaranting people coming in from those areas I suppose.

[Phoenix84]

Jul 27, 2014 10:40:10 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

The virus passes in fluids expelled, which at this time the person is usually sick or dying.

From what I understand, the person gets so sick, so fast that it is usually the healthcare workers or those caring for them who catch it.

Viruses are interesting in that if it kills the vectors too fast, it the epidemic dies out.  This is the reason why the epidemic is so contained.  However, if the virus mutates such that it is not so fatal, that is when we should get worried.  As a benchmark, I think that smallpox had around a 30% mortality rate.  At the beginning of the 1918 flu epidemic, it was around 50%, and was more targeted at young (researchers think that a similar strain went through~15 years earlier which helped confer immunity to older people).  At the end, the virus also mutated so it did not kill as many....I think t dropped to around 20% or so.

There is a book called The Coming Plague by Laurie Garrett that describes what happens.  Rough reading, but really informative.

I'm not a medical expert, but that's what I remember from reading about it too.  That the really deadly viruses, the ones with a 90%+ mortality rate are not the ones to worry about, because the viruses that quickly kill the host are unable to effectively spread.  It's the lower mortality rate ones that are far more likely to spread.

[Artemis Windsong]

I have been concerned about ebola virus for at least 15 years.  In the beginning it was in isolated villages and killed everyone.

The victim that boarded a Liberia airline vomited in the plane.  Everyone is exposed and should have been quarantined.

A type of hemorophagic disease is found in whitetail deer that are bitten by a midge.

 

[Tiny]

I don't think its the reused medical supplies problem - not like a reused syringe atleast. Once the illness gets to the diarrhea/vomit/bleeding stage - it get really hard for the health care works (or whoever is caring for the patient) to protect themselves from coming into contact with 'bodily fluids'.

The articles also mention customs/traditions around preparing a body for burial (the women of the family? wash the body) that potentially brings a lot of people into contact with the virus.

I'm not worried about it becoming an issue here. If it does appear here, a handful of people will most likely die. But, once, it's diagnosed I strongly suspect it will be contained. I doubt it will 'run rampant' thru the population.

The other thing to consider is that currently - the outbreak has effected a tiny portion of the population.

When we start hearing stories about the sick (or even the people who are vaguely, maybe possibly sick) and the dead being abandoned/shunned - that's probably when it will be 'serious'.

The articles keep mentioning that the symptoms first present like a lot of other common illnesses in the area. When people become afraid when someone coughs or has a fever, it's time to start worrying about how stable a country and their politicians are... and what kind of awful stuff people will start doing to other people out of fear.

[Deleted]

Sort of OT, but anyone else play Plague Inc?  Or am I the only sicko? 

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[Artemis Windsong]

The game sounds like a teaching tool for the public.

[Tiny]

I meant to add that SARS outbreak seemed way more scary than the ebola outbreak is to me.   MERS is a bit disconcerting as well...    
.

[Deleted]

The movie "Outbreak" scared me as a kid, a "what if" for Ebola if it went airborne.

[cael]

Glad we got in and out of Africa before this started to get as big as it has (I don't think I've contracted ebola yet!) It is a little concerning... such is the world though, with travel as it is these days.

[Spellbound454]

The reservoir for Ebola is thought to be fruit bats (and has been for millennia)

Poor people occasionally eat these creatures, as a food source.. and become infected.

The reason it has spread is that the infection is on a cross road and the people are transient.
They also travel with bodies back to their villages for burial and have funerary rights which could spread the infection.
The area is heavily superstitious and many people spread the infection instead of going to medical facilities.

Is possible that we could have pockets of infection travel elsewhere......but we don't have the same conditions for spreading the infection.

Its not about us......its about poor people in an African country who are struggling to cope with this.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

has returned back home to Canada and placed himself under quarantine. Wish he would have quarantined himself before leaving Africa...

Why is that? He has't been formally diagnosed as carrying/having Ebola - he was placing himself voluntarily under observation/quarantine as a precaution once he was on home soil - because he as working/in contact with people who have or may have been infected..

He was/is getting better care/observation here (in Canada) than he would have in a third-world country - where medicine/doctors & sanitary/sterile conditions or proper conditions to provide proper care are rare - if not non-existent.

He should be commended for isolating/quarantining himself until proven clean and healthy, rather than condemned for traveling home to receive (possible) proper needed treatment.

He has not tested positive for the virus, nor shown any symptoms since returning to Canada on Saturday, but one of his American colleagues, doctor Kent Brantly, is being treated for the disease.

"Azaria is symptom-free right now and there is no chance of being contagious with Ebola if you are not exhibiting symptoms," Melissa Strickland, a spokesperson for Samaritan's Purse, told broadcaster CTV.

[Ryan]

I'll worry about Ebola when the doctors say 'I'm sorry to inform you that you have Ebola'

[EVT1]

Jul 29, 2014 17:38:41 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

I'm reading "The Hot Zone" right now and I'm totally freaked out. I don't know why I do this to myself. Stephen King called this book, "one of the most horrifying things I've ever read". The book is about ebola and a time when it was brought to the U.S. by a monkey. One of the army scientists studying ebola on monkeys put one monkey in a cage that was infected and another monkey in a cage that was not infected. The monkeys never touched, but the healthy monkey became infected. It was asserted that the the virus can become aerosolized. This makes me very nervous about the infected man that traveled on a plane. Planes recycle the air that everyone is breathing (and coughing and sneazing) out. They suck it all in and then a fan blows it in your face. I'm not sure the filters are ebola grade.

If anyone is a glutton for punishment, join me and read:

www.amazon.com/The-Hot-Zone-Terrifying-Story/dp/0385495226/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1406315105&sr=1-1

Have you read The Stand? 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 29, 2014 17:38:41 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

I'm reading "The Hot Zone" right now and I'm totally freaked out. I don't know why I do this to myself. Stephen King called this book, "one of the most horrifying things I've ever read". The book is about ebola and a time when it was brought to the U.S. by a monkey. One of the army scientists studying ebola on monkeys put one monkey in a cage that was infected and another monkey in a cage that was not infected. The monkeys never touched, but the healthy monkey became infected. It was asserted that the the virus can become aerosolized. This makes me very nervous about the infected man that traveled on a plane. Planes recycle the air that everyone is breathing (and coughing and sneazing) out. They suck it all in and then a fan blows it in your face. I'm not sure the filters are ebola grade.

If anyone is a glutton for punishment, join me and read:

www.amazon.com/The-Hot-Zone-Terrifying-Story/dp/0385495226/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1406315105&sr=1-1

Reston Ebola is another virus.  It is not transittable to humans, but I remember when the monkey colony was destroyed.  I interviewed at the facility a few years later.

I read this book when it came out.

[Tennesseer]

Jul 29, 2014 20:54:47 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

Reston Ebola is another virus. It is not transittable to humans

Aren't Marburg and Ebola viruses both aerosol threats?

i read this book when it came out.

I'm so happy to hear that! I hate it when I read a book and I have nobody to talk to about it. I hope you'll let me bombard you with questions when I'm done.

My understanding is one must come in direct contact with the fluids secreted by an ebola sufferer.  Hence medical personel are very susceptable to catching it.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

I would commend him for staying put until he KNEW he was in the clear, by placing himself in a quarantine THERE. Flying to another continent and possibly bringing it back with him is not commendable to me. Sorry.

Seriously?? He would have gotten little to NO proper treatment (IF he'd been diagnosed as infected) - which he HASN'T. He VOLUNTARILY placed himself under quarantine after returning to Canada as a precaution. He has NO signs or symptoms of being infected and likely won't. The American Doctor on the other hand HAS.

This particular (Cdn) Dr could have returned to Canada and continued on with his life/medical practice without saying a word - but he voluntarily took the precautions to be isolated/quarantined and awaits being cleared as having a clean bill of health.

He wouldn't receive that treatment where he was if he had stayed put in this third-world country with limited medical treatment. I will continue to commend him - for taking immediate action upon his return, knowing the conditions he'd been working under.

Don't base fact on Stephen King novels - the intent of his books is to instill fear.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 29, 2014 21:13:05 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

Jul 29, 2014 21:01:14 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

My understanding is one must come in direct contact with the fluids secreted by an ebola sufferer.  Hence medical personel are very susceptable to catching it.

I have read that they are both aerosol threats and it is unknown the exact amount of time the viruses can live outside a host. Maybe Mich can chime in on this one. If an infected person is coughing and sneezing on a plane that is recirculating the air and shooting it in the face of other passengers, is there a risk? 

Reston Ebola is not the same as the Ebola that is running through the African population now.  It can be aerosolized, but Ebola does not (as of yet).  As far as I know, Ebola is only contracted through bodily fluids.  I think that if the patient is tat sick, they are too sick to walk onto a plane.  The virus is incredibly fast acting, which is largely why the epidemics remain so localized.

if I had to choose a bug to be afraid of right now, drug resistant TB is waaaay scarier, because it CAN be aerosolized and there is no treatment.

The Coming Plague by Laurie Garrett s a really good book to read.  Once you get into it, you realize that Ebola is really just a blip.  Hell, hospitals probably contain the largest concentration of bugs you do nt want to acquire!

[Spellbound454]

A millennia? I didn't think this was identified until the 70's?

Yes. Asian bats are a different species but carry a similar sort of virus.
It suggests that the bats already had the virus when they became separate species.
As they changed, so did it.

Btw the virus has a lower mortality rate with medical treatment...which we have in the developed world.
It could come here but is unlikely to wipe out whole families like it has in isolated pockets in Africa.
Its most contagious when the person is in effect dying...and after death
by that time people would be in an isolation ward.

[thyme4change]

Jul 27, 2014 19:46:15 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

I have been concerned about ebola virus for at least 15 years.  In the beginning it was in isolated villages and killed everyone.

The victim that boarded a Liberia airline vomited in the plane.  Everyone is exposed and should have been quarantined.

A type of hemorophagic disease is found in whitetail deer that are bitten by a midge.

 

Wouldn't you have to touch the vomit for the disease to transmit?  Everything I have heard is that this is fluid transfer only.  

[mmhmm]

Jul 30, 2014 8:47:16 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Jul 27, 2014 19:46:15 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

I have been concerned about ebola virus for at least 15 years.  In the beginning it was in isolated villages and killed everyone.

The victim that boarded a Liberia airline vomited in the plane.  Everyone is exposed and should have been quarantined.

A type of hemorophagic disease is found in whitetail deer that are bitten by a midge.

 

Wouldn't you have to touch the vomit for the disease to transmit?  Everything I have heard is that this is fluid transfer only.  

As far as I know, yes, you would have to come in direct contact with body fluids.

[Wisconsin Beth]

I'd read that part of the problem with this particular outbreak is that the countries involved don't really trust their gov't, the US and the UN right now.  So the outbreak is worse because of that. 

And the nickname of a hospital (JFK something) is "Just For Killing" because people go there to die. 

My source was more than likely Slate, within the last 2 weeks.  I don't have time to find a link right now.  Sorry. 

[mmhmm]

Of course vomit has a "splash factor", Sroo. If it comes in direct contact with your skin and the person who vomited has Ebola, there is a danger of infection if there's any sort of opening in the skin (or mucous membrane, if that's what's contacted).  All I said was:  You would have to come in direct contact with body fluids.

[Tiny]

Jul 30, 2014 9:26:40 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Also just for fun... from MSDS online: www.msdsonline.com/resources/msds-resources/free-safety-data-sheet-index/ebola-virus.aspx

MODE OF TRANSMISSION: In an outbreak, it is hypothesized that the first patient becomes infected as a result of contact with an infected animal (15). Person-to-person transmission occurs via close personal contact with an infected individual or their body fluids during the late stages of infection or after death (1, 2, 15, 27). Nosocomial infections can occur through contact with infected body fluids due to the reuse of unsterilized syringes, needles, or other medical equipment contaminated with these fluids (1, 2). Humans may be infected by handling sick or dead non-human primates and are also at risk when handling the bodies of deceased humans in preparation for funerals, suggesting possible transmission through aerosol droplets (2, 6, 28). In the laboratory, infection through small-particle aerosols has been demonstrated in primates, and airborne spread among humans is strongly suspected, although it has not yet been conclusively demonstrated (1, 6, 13). The importance of this route of transmission is not clear. Poor hygienic conditions can aid the spread of the virus (6).

SURVIVAL OUTSIDE HOST: The virus can survive in liquid or dried material for a number of days (23). Infectivity is found to be stable at room temperature or at 4°C for several days, and indefinitely stable at -70°C (6, 20). Infectivity can be preserved by lyophilisation.

But, then, shouldn't there be more dead than the 700 or so?   The death count would seem to indicate that less than 2000 people have been diagnosed with Ebola.   Shouldn't there be more people dying/becoming ill?     Those with ebola have been in contact with alot of people AND there's been alot of travelling by those in contact with ebola (even if they haven't become ill themselves).  

Remember - this all started back 3 or 4 months ago... plenty of time for people to spread the virus around to tens of thousands of people.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

It sounds like the MSDS data sheet you copied s combining Reston Ebola with Ebola that is currently infecting the Africans now.  They are separate viruses, and hike Reton Ebola can bet aerosolized, it only infects monkeys.

If the virus WAS aerosolized, there would be waaay more cases than there are.

The Canadian doctor had no symptoms, nor had the virus been cultured from him when he got on the plane.  He was choosing to be prudent to quarantine himself.  I don't see how he was an idiot, because by your metric, no healthcare worker would be able to come back to their home.