Ebola

[Ryan]

Worst case scenario, I'd just stay in my house until the whole thing blows over.  I have enough food/water to last me a long time.  #ebolaproof

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

All of the military personnel that were part of the decon wore plain clothing and drove regular cars. They created a special area in the building where they would suit up.


That's actually normal procedure for biohazard containment.  It's not a governmental conspiracy cover-up.  You don't go around driving in a hazmat suit because you might bring out whatever it is you are trying to clean up or bring something new in.

You also have ONE sight where you take your clothes on/off so if anything does make it out/in everything is in one place and can be gathered up for cleaning/disposal.

I work with BSL-2 contaminates so I don't have to wear a hazmat suit. But I do have to wear a gown/gloves and a mask if I am working with aerosols. I cannot walk out of the lab wearing any of it and I cannot walk into the lab wearing any of it. I must put it on here in the lab and take it off before I go anywhere else.

On top of that being seen in your personal protective equipment in public can incite panic/hysteria because lay people don't know why you are wearing it or what you are doing. We have signs posted everywhere reminding staff to take off their gloves in public places because people don't know where your hands have been.   I could get my ass fired if I walked down the hall in my PPE.

[Blonde Granny]

Aug 1, 2014 10:44:54 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Worst case scenario, I'd just stay in my house until the whole thing blows over.  I have enough food/water to last me a long time.  #ebolaproof

I have enough food for a long time, however I'm short on water. I think I have about 4 gallons.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Aug 1, 2014 11:07:01 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

I hate to tell you this, but it was publicized. I remember hearing about it and reading about it and it was discussed in scientific circles.

They told the press (The Washington Post) that the infected monkeys had been destroyed before decon had even started.

While the decon operation was happening, they were almost discovered by somebody from the press, but the news reporter that was sniffing around never walked around to the correct side of the building and ended up leaving. All of the military personnel that were part of the decon wore plain clothing and drove regular cars. They created a special area in the building where they would suit up.

You do destroy the monkeys before decontamination, that is SOP.

People do not drive around in hazmat suits.  They arrive in normal clothes and change at the facility.  Again, SOP.  Mst of the people who do decon arrive in their own cars, like any other job.  I don't see what the issue is.

It is like when I went to work in the animal facility, I wore my wn clothes into the building.  I went into the locker room, stripped down and changed into scrubs, shoes that I only wore there (a pair of old sneaks).  Everything that I wore when I worked with the monkeys stayed there, and was decontaminated there.  My shoes were destroyed.

All SOP.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Aug 1, 2014 11:24:00 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

That part of the operation sounded normal/standard. The concerning part (for me, anyway) was allowing the daycare facility next door to remain open before decon was complete.

How close was 'next door'?  My best guess was at least a couple miles.  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Aug 1, 2014 11:56:20 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

Aug 1, 2014 11:47:46 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

You do destroy the monkeys before decontamination, that is SOP.

People do not drive around in hazmat suits.  They arrive in normal clothes and change at the facility.  Again, SOP.  Mst of the people who do decon arrive in their own cars, like any other job.  I don't see what the issue is.

It is like when I went to work in the animal facility, I wore my wn clothes into the building.  I went into the locker room, stripped down and changed into scrubs, shoes that I only wore there (a pair of old sneaks).  Everything that I wore when I worked with the monkeys stayed there, and was decontaminated there.  My shoes were destroyed.

All SOP.

I guess I am using the terms wrong. The monkey house was filled with ebola and ebola infested monkeys. They had NOT been killed yet when it was reported to the Washington Post that the monkeys were killed and the situation was over. When the military was finally in the building with their special suits on, killing the monkeys, they could hear the children from the daycare center playing outside.

I would love to know how far away it is.  I have been in a lot of monkey facilities and there are usually large distances between the facility and the public.  Some are underground.  Due to PETA issues, there are protections for the facility (a basic monkey runs about $5000 each, we had over 100 monkeys in our colony....so about half a million $$ in animals alone).  The facilities are closed to everyone but those who work there.  Those animals are very well isolated, as Ebola is not the worst you can get.  As I posted earlier, Herpes B is a much greater threat and this has been known since I started working with them in 1986 or so.

I really take a lot of stuff written with a grain of salt.  The press has a really good way of skewing issues, particularly those involved with science issues.  What is written is not always what is, and I have seen it happen too many times not to be cynical.

Did you know that there is a daycare facility there now?

[ArchietheDragon]

I just had a case of Hershey squirts. I hope it's not Ebola.

[swamp]

Aug 1, 2014 11:56:20 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

Aug 1, 2014 11:47:46 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

You do destroy the monkeys before decontamination, that is SOP.

People do not drive around in hazmat suits.  They arrive in normal clothes and change at the facility.  Again, SOP.  Mst of the people who do decon arrive in their own cars, like any other job.  I don't see what the issue is.

It is like when I went to work in the animal facility, I wore my wn clothes into the building.  I went into the locker room, stripped down and changed into scrubs, shoes that I only wore there (a pair of old sneaks).  Everything that I wore when I worked with the monkeys stayed there, and was decontaminated there.  My shoes were destroyed.

All SOP.

I guess I am using the terms wrong. The monkey house was filled with ebola and ebola infested monkeys. They had NOT been killed yet when it was reported to the Washington Post that the monkeys were killed and the situation was over. When the military was finally in the building with their special suits on, killing the monkeys, they could hear the children from the daycare center playing outside.

If its a day with no wind, I can hear kids playing that are about 300 yards from my house.   

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Even if it was airborne the children would have had to be in the building to potentially become infected.

You'd need to stir up contaminated dust particles or inhale contaminated moisture droplets from the ventilation system in order to be exposed.

It can't travel in a miasma like cloud over 300 yards to the daycare.

There are extremely strict regulations on where these types of facilities can be built and how far they need to be from other businesses.    I would assume this facility was more than far enough away from the daycare to ensure there would be no cross contamination. 

[Deleted]

They are flying two people back to the US (Atlanta) that are infected with Ebola.  If the plane were to crash in a populated area and sprayed but did not kill or injure several hundred people that then went around with their normal activities all day and then went home glad to be alive.  Problem?

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Aug 1, 2014 13:51:53 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

They are flying two people back to the US (Atlanta) that are infected with Ebola.  If the plane were to crash in a populated area and sprayed but did not kill or injure several hundred people that then went around with their normal activities all day and then went home glad to be alive.  Problem?

The likelihood of that plane spewing the blood of the 2 sick healthcare workers over people is really slim.

from what I remember about Lockerbie, if you got hit by the downed plane, you were dead.

[Deleted]

Aug 1, 2014 14:02:10 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Aug 1, 2014 13:51:53 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

They are flying two people back to the US (Atlanta) that are infected with Ebola.  If the plane were to crash in a populated area and sprayed but did not kill or injure several hundred people that then went around with their normal activities all day and then went home glad to be alive.  Problem?

The likelihood of that plane spewing the blood of the 2 sick healthcare workers over people is really slim.

from what I remember about Lockerbie, if you got hit by the downed plane, you were dead.

A mist of blood and body bits.   Several hundred people on the downwind side not involved in the planes structural impact area.  Problem ?

[Tennesseer]

Aug 1, 2014 12:37:00 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

I just had a case of Hershey squirts. I hope it's not Ebola.

Run-of-the-mill flatulenza.

[Tennesseer]

Aug 1, 2014 13:51:53 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

They are flying two people back to the US (Atlanta) that are infected with Ebola.  If the plane were to crash in a populated area and sprayed but did not kill or injure several hundred people that then went around with their normal activities all day and then went home glad to be alive.  Problem?

A crashing jet with fuel on board will usually burn upon impact and everything around the crash site will burn too.

[Deleted]

Aug 1, 2014 14:23:05 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Aug 1, 2014 13:51:53 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

They are flying two people back to the US (Atlanta) that are infected with Ebola.  If the plane were to crash in a populated area and sprayed but did not kill or injure several hundred people that then went around with their normal activities all day and then went home glad to be alive.  Problem?

A crashing jet with fuel on board will usually burn upon impact and everything around the crash site will burn too.

Usually, and if it doesn't burn or misted body material is ejected from multiple impacts before fuel ignition.  Then post #109 situation happens.  Problem ?

[Tiny]

Aug 1, 2014 14:16:31 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Aug 1, 2014 14:02:10 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

The likelihood of that plane spewing the blood of the 2 sick healthcare workers over people is really slim.

from what I remember about Lockerbie, if you got hit by the downed plane, you were dead.

A mist of blood and body bits.   Several hundred people on the downwind side not involved in the planes structural impact area.  Problem ?

While I'm sure that 'mist of blood and body parts' on impact (and I presume before any fire-y fire ball) would be spectular in a Michael Bay movie - I don't think it works quite that way in real life.   
The OHare flight 191 in '79  crashed just after take off  -- was pretty ugly/gruesome (bits and peices for the first responders to deal with - have a relative who was a 'first responder') --  I don't think there was a 'mist of blood and body bits' involved.    It's the first responders that would potentially be in trouble.  Not anyone down wind.   Depending on how fast/far the plane falls and how much fuel is on board will determine how big of a fire ball you get and what's left over. 

Dont' forget the Ebola virus crisis has been going on for  3 months  and so far it's infected 2000 or so people.   SARS spread way faster than ebola.     I'm not saying Africa doesn't have a big problem on their hands - they do.   I'm suspecting that not everyone who comes into casual contact with a sick ebola patient gets the virus.   Mind you the health care workers are dealing with the virus 24/7 for WEEKS.       

It doesn't sound like the ALL the non medical people involved with the care of the boy -- who donated blood to the sick canadian doctor came down with ebola.  I'm assuming who ever the boy got the virus from didn't spread it to everyone in the household. 

The other Dr. who died in Laos - spent some time with his sick sister - I wonder if everyone who came in contact with the sick sister is now dead or dying?    Shouldn't the death counts be higher if truly infects 100% of the people who come into contact or even casual contact with it?   SARS spread much quicker and seems to have infected more in a shorter period of time than ebola.  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

If you want to read a more accurate representation of what's going on over in Africa, and the issues that the scientists that are there must deal with, you'll want to read....

Virus Hunters by Peters and Olkshaker
Level 4:  Virus Hunters of the CDC by McCormick

These are books that are written by those that were actually in the field, who are dealing with Ebola rather than the bastardized version that is given by writers of the popular press (like Preston, of The Hot Zone).

Another good read is The Coming Plague by Garrett, which gives a fairly accurate view of all killer diseases, not just Ebola (even though Ebola does have a major section in the book).  She is a science writer, and her research is fairly comprehensive.

I do think it's interesting how people are in so much of a panic right now about Ebola in the US, but there was not anywhere near the hysteria that there was for SARS, which DID hit in North America, is far more contagious and killed many more.

[Deleted]

Aug 1, 2014 14:41:36 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Aug 1, 2014 14:16:31 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

A mist of blood and body bits.   Several hundred people on the downwind side not involved in the planes structural impact area.  Problem ?

While I'm sure that 'mist of blood and body parts' on impact (and I presume before any fire-y fire ball) would be spectular in a Michael Bay movie - I don't think it works quite that way in real life.   
The OHare flight 191 in '79  crashed just after take off  -- was pretty ugly/gruesome (bits and peices for the first responders to deal with - have a relative who was a 'first responder') --  I don't think there was a 'mist of blood and body bits' involved.    It's the first responders that would potentially be in trouble.  Not anyone down wind.   Depending on how fast/far the plane falls and how much fuel is on board will determine how big of a fire ball you get and what's left over. 

Dont' forget the Ebola virus crisis has been going on for  3 months  and so far it's infected 2000 or so people.   SARS spread way faster than ebola.     I'm not saying Africa doesn't have a big problem on their hands - they do.   I'm suspecting that not everyone who comes into casual contact with a sick ebola patient gets the virus.   Mind you the health care workers are dealing with the virus 24/7 for WEEKS.       

It doesn't sound like the ALL the non medical people involved with the care of the boy -- who donated blood to the sick canadian doctor came down with ebola.  I'm assuming who ever the boy got the virus from didn't spread it to everyone in the household. 

The other Dr. who died in Laos - spent some time with his sick sister - I wonder if everyone who came in contact with the sick sister is now dead or dying?    Shouldn't the death counts be higher if truly infects 100% of the people who come into contact or even casual contact with it?   SARS spread much quicker and seems to have infected more in a shorter period of time than ebola.  

I've watched so many video clips of crashes it gives me a headache to think about it. Work related, airframe stuff. I did see the start of the roll in the crash of 191 as I was driving down Higgins road (72) as it happened. I was to far away to see it finish and hit the ground. Small world. My point in previous posts was that all planes and debris do not self incinerate upon impact and their always is a chance of a contaminant being spread. Small chance, but still there.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

This is a good book too.

Inside the outbreaks : the elite medical detectives of the epidemic intelligence service by Mark Pendergrast

My library doesn't have Virus Hunters.

I'm pretty sure I've read Level 4 but it's been awhile.

I just requested this one: The viral storm : the dawn of a new pandemic age / Nathan Wolfe. It sounds interesting.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Well I just learned something new a few minutes ago. We have a biocontainment unit here where I work and we've been approached to possibly take on Ebola patients (not doing so at this time).

This must be the biocontainment center that Mmmhm was referring to in Nebraska. We're home to the US's largest facility.

Going to keep this information to myself since DH is a hypochondriac, he'll probably try to make me quit working here.

[Angel!]

Aug 1, 2014 14:47:15 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I do think it's interesting how people are in so much of a panic right now about Ebola in the US, but there was not anywhere near the hysteria that there was for SARS, which DID hit in North America, is far more contagious and killed many more.

SARS had like a 10% fatality rate & I think no deaths in the US.  This outbreak has 60% fatality rate.  Plus SARS is a little more like dying of flu, which while scary is not nearly as scary as dying with your eyeballs bleeding.

ETA - I just looked it up.  SARS killed 775.  This outbreak killed 729 as of 7/27.  I bet we are above the 775 by now, this outbreak has infected a lot fewer, but killed more.

[Sum Dum Gai]

If a plane starts going down it's standard operating procedure for the pilot to the fuel, specifically to avoid the Michael Bay movie fireball when they try an emergency landing.  The odds of the plane carrying the two Ebola patients going down are pretty slim, but if it were to happen it's extremely unlikely to go down in a spectacular fireball that burns all the remains.

[Angel!]

Aug 1, 2014 16:04:40 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

If a plane starts going down it's standard operating procedure for the pilot to the fuel, specifically to avoid the Michael Bay movie fireball when they try an emergency landing.  The odds of the plane carrying the two Ebola patients going down are pretty slim, but if it were to happen it's extremely unlikely to go down in a spectacular fireball that burns all the remains.

Probably also unlikely to go down in a way that sprays remains over a crowd of people.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Probably also unlikely to go down in a way that sprays remains over a crowd of people.

Also true.

[Tennesseer]

Aug 1, 2014 16:06:01 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Aug 1, 2014 16:04:40 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

If a plane starts going down it's standard operating procedure for the pilot to the fuel, specifically to avoid the Michael Bay movie fireball when they try an emergency landing.  The odds of the plane carrying the two Ebola patients going down are pretty slim, but if it were to happen it's extremely unlikely to go down in a spectacular fireball that burns all the remains.

Probably also unlikely to go down in a way that sprays remains over a crowd of people.

My understanding is the plane is bring back the two American Ebola patients one at a time.

The most dangerous parts of an airplane flight are the take off and landing.  On a landing approach, there may not be time to jettison the fuel if the trouble was not detected earlier, so a crash landing may very well burn upon impact.

[mmhmm]

Your biocontainment center is pretty new, I understand, NomoreDramaQ1015. It's supposed to be an excellent facility, is the largest, and is open to the public. I can sure understand your reluctance to mention it to DH, though. Just hope he doesn't read about it, or something.

[Blonde Granny]

Aug 1, 2014 15:17:58 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Well I just learned something new a few minutes ago. We have a biocontainment unit here where I work and we've been approached to possibly take on Ebola patients (not doing so at this time).

This must be the biocontainment center that Mmmhm was referring to in Nebraska. We're home to the US's largest facility.

Going to keep this information to myself since DH is a hypochondriac, he'll probably try to make me quit working here.

A quick search shows that the bio unit is located at the Nebraska Med Center in Omaha. Feds have or will visit it.

[Artemis Windsong]

Ebola has been on my radar for nearly 20 years.  I took notice whenever areas were infected.  It took that long to get out of the isolated villages in Africa to the main populations.  And one plane ride to the U.S.

With the recent mismanagement of small pox and anthrax viruses at some of these labs, I am very concerned about the ability to contain ebola.  And they are planting it in the center of America - Nebraska.

Just because these two people are US citizens does not give them the right to bring ebola and spread this incurable disease.

As far as CDC is concerned, I saw a map about 14 yrs ago that showed the flu virus spreading out from Atlanta.  They are researchers and do not care about the population.

For a real eye opener I would recommend the book The Immortal Henrietta Lacks by Rebecca Skloot.

Where will my anger get me?  I can't stop this.  I can't protect myself when it gets out.  Welcome to being the lab rat.

[mmhmm]

They're not going to "plant it" in Nebraska, Artemis. These patients are going to Emory in Atlanta. I don't know why you would believe researchers, in particular, don't care about the rest of the population. They're people, just like you and I. They care, too.

[Sum Dum Gai]

They're not going to "plant it" in Nebraska, Artemis. These patients are going to Emory in Atlanta. I don't know why you would believe researchers, in particular, don't care about the rest of the population. They're people, just like you and I. They care, too.

I'm sure they do, but do we really need to introduce an incurable, transmittable, disease with a high mortality rate to our home soil?  Couldn't they quarantine them at Gitmo and still give them state of the art treatment?  For that matter, why not one of the Hawaiian islands?