Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 28, 2014 12:53:01 GMT -5
Yup, well unless you agree that this is all great and okay, you're garbage. I have a problem with that.
Agree that what is great and okay? People accepting who they are and even being proud of it? Yeah, in my book that is great and okay. And yeah, I think less of people who disagree. People who don't want other people to accept and celebrate who they are have a pretty big mean streak in my opinion.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 28, 2014 12:53:59 GMT -5
Well, I wouldn't go that far. I don't want to stop caring about people but I do want to stop knowing their business. I know the sales clerk is gay and I know he's talking about his boyfriend when he says what they did last weekend. He knows I'm not and if I say what I did last weekend, he knows it was with DF. He's okay with me being straight. I'm okay with him not being. It doesn't affect our relationship or each others lives at all. We are just two people trying to buy clothes that fit and look nice. Then why are we arguing?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 28, 2014 12:55:00 GMT -5
You can accept what you are and be proud of your accomplishments, if any. Being proud of having sex? Or who you have sex with? Its something that happens to most people eventually. No big deal.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 28, 2014 12:57:45 GMT -5
What we are arguing about and I'm about to stop because its a losing battle and so not worth it, is that I don't care if you're gay, I don't care of you get married or not, I just don't want it shoved in my face. Would I like to be stoned for not being married in an OVERLY, IMHO, Christian community? Nope. But there's a lot of women who enjoy rubbing my nose in it. Like I'm the one wanting to get married. We live IN SIN because I'm chicken to get married. That's probably what I should be shamed about as opposed to anything else.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 28, 2014 12:57:58 GMT -5
You can accept what you are and be proud of your accomplishments, if any.
As raeoflyte said (and I agree), it can definitely be an accomplishment to come out at the risk of being shunned or even cut off from your community. I'd even go so far as to call those who have the strength of character to handle that heroes. I'm proud of the times I've stood up for what's right, and loaned my voice to a cause I believe in, but I've never done anything to hold a candle to that kind of courage. I've never risked losing my family over being honest about who I was. People who can do that are amazing to me.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 28, 2014 12:59:21 GMT -5
But I'm not. Guess what? After reading that book years ago MEN ARE FROM MARS, WOMEN ARE FROM VENUS, I decided my life would be a lot easier if I WAS gay as men are PITAS!!!!
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 28, 2014 12:59:39 GMT -5
as much as it pains me to admIt this, I kinda agree with Zib's last post. The world will be greatly improved once everyone stops caring about everyone else. Or believing they are better than everyone else. End envy, bigotry and bias, be ìt racial, gender, religious, sexual orientation, etc., and pretty much everyone will stop caring what other people do with their personal lives. They only caring about everyone else we should be doing is caring for the welfare of others.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 28, 2014 13:00:12 GMT -5
What we are arguing about and I'm about to stop because its a losing battle and so not worth it, is that I don't care if you're gay, I don't care of you get married or not, I just don't want it shoved in my face.
But I don't get who's shoving it in your face. Some people seem to think interactions like the ones you have with the sales clerk count as "shoving it in their faces" - e.g. just the mere mention that they have a partner of the same gender, in a context that isn't remotely sexual.
I wouldn't be happy listening to a monologue about someone's dirty weekend regardless of which genders were involved. But as others have said, the only people who have ever subjected me to anything of the kind were straight.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 28, 2014 13:00:36 GMT -5
You can accept what you are and be proud of your accomplishments, if any.
As raeoflyte said (and I agree), it can definitely be an accomplishment to come out at the risk of being shunned or even cut off from your community. I'd even go so far as to call those who have the strength of character to handle that heroes. I'm proud of the times I've stood up for what's right, and loaned my voice to a cause I believe in, but I've never done anything to hold a candle to that kind of courage. I've never risked losing my family over being honest about who I was. People who can do that are amazing to me. This is very true. I married a man I disnt love because I couldn't stand up to my friends and family and marry DF.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 28, 2014 13:03:02 GMT -5
as much as it pains me to admIt this, I kinda agree with Zib's last post. The world will be greatly improved once everyone stops caring about everyone else. Or believing they are better than everyone else. End envy, bigotry and bias, be ìt racial, gender, religious, sexual orientation, etc., and pretty much everyone will stop caring what other people do with their personal lives. They only caring about everyone else we should be doing is caring for the welfare of others. Amen. I've lost jobs that I was the best candidate for because I was too old. Or not "connected." Or a woman, or short, or blonde, or cute, or skinny, or whatever bias happened to be in the persons mind at the time. I've also gotten off of traffic tickets for some of the same reasons.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 28, 2014 13:03:36 GMT -5
as much as it pains me to admit this, I kinda agree with Zib's last post. The world will be greatly improved once everyone stops caring about everyone else. That's the whole point. No one would give a rip about "not allowing" gay marriage if everyone could just MTOFB. At the end of the day, "allowing" gay marriage (and I hate that term, like it's some kind of favor we're doing for Teh Gayz) affects my hetero marriage not at all. So as I said in my first post, I really have a tough time understanding why so many straight people are so deeply determined to make gay people behave in a way that they think is more moral. Apparently "living in sin" is better than getting married, if you're gay. Because heaven forbid we screw with the sanctity of marriage. IDK, living in sin was pretty sweet....
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 28, 2014 13:07:06 GMT -5
I enjoyed it as well I told my mom about this debate and she pointed out that some of the places DH and I are thinking of moving are VERY conservative and we'll probably be hearing a lot of crap like this on a regular basis if we move there. It's a very good point... I'm not great at holding my tongue and I might have to do it a lot in some of these places.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 28, 2014 13:07:37 GMT -5
OMG, Firebird, I forgot about you and Dark.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 28, 2014 13:10:00 GMT -5
What about me and Dark?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 28, 2014 13:11:35 GMT -5
You can accept what you are and be proud of your accomplishments, if any.
As raeoflyte said (and I agree), it can definitely be an accomplishment to come out at the risk of being shunned or even cut off from your community. I'd even go so far as to call those who have the strength of character to handle that heroes. I'm proud of the times I've stood up for what's right, and loaned my voice to a cause I believe in, but I've never done anything to hold a candle to that kind of courage. I've never risked losing my family over being honest about who I was. People who can do that are amazing to me. This is very true. I married a man I disnt love because I couldn't stand up to my friends and family and marry DF. Zibazanski-ìf I am reading the above post correctly, you have known your current DF since before you first married someone else? If yes, congratulations on getting a second chance.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 28, 2014 13:13:28 GMT -5
Zibazanski-ìf I am reading the above post correctly, you have known your current DF since before you first married someone else? If yes, congratulations on getting a second chance. I like it when sad stories have happy endings
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 28, 2014 13:14:29 GMT -5
What we are arguing about and I'm about to stop because its a losing battle and so not worth it, is that I don't care if you're gay, I don't care of you get married or not, I just don't want it shoved in my face.
But I don't get who's shoving it in your face. Some people seem to think interactions like the ones you have with the sales clerk count as "shoving it in their faces" - e.g. just the mere mention that they have a partner of the same gender, in a context that isn't remotely sexual. I wouldn't be happy listening to a monologue about someone's dirty weekend regardless of which genders were involved. But as others have said, the only people who have ever subjected me to anything of the kind were straight. See, I'm the opposite. I know much more about the love lifes of gay people I know (the minority) then the straight people (the majority) I know. This (at least from my perspective) kinda reinforces the whole "too much of your identity" was tied into your sexual orientation thing. I have never had a straight guy tell me how many sexual partners he's had in a year (well, except DH when we got engaged). I've had two of my gay associates brag about it to me.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 28, 2014 13:15:10 GMT -5
I enjoyed it as well I told my mom about this debate and she pointed out that some of the places DH and I are thinking of moving are VERY conservative and we'll probably be hearing a lot of crap like this on a regular basis if we move there. It's a very good point... I'm not great at holding my tongue and I might have to do it a lot in some of these places. think of it as freedom from engaging with idiots .... or you could establish your own liberal speak-easy.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 28, 2014 13:15:36 GMT -5
Yes, we dated in college and after college. I held out from marrying who my parents wanted until DF went to Oklahoma City on a transfer. I wasn't leaving my job or my family. I simply gave in after that. He came home to deal with his Dads health and met some chick in a bar and she and her kids moved in with him. We did reconnect before he married her but he said he didn't know how to get her out of his house. I hung up the phone after telling him to call me when he grew a spine. 25 years later, he did! We know we are very lucky and blessed. Sometimes I feel like a LIFETIME MOVIE!!!
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 28, 2014 13:16:02 GMT -5
.... or you could establish your own liberal speak-easy.
I love that idea!
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 28, 2014 13:16:36 GMT -5
What we are arguing about and I'm about to stop because its a losing battle and so not worth it, is that I don't care if you're gay, I don't care of you get married or not, I just don't want it shoved in my face.
But I don't get who's shoving it in your face. Some people seem to think interactions like the ones you have with the sales clerk count as "shoving it in their faces" - e.g. just the mere mention that they have a partner of the same gender, in a context that isn't remotely sexual. I wouldn't be happy listening to a monologue about someone's dirty weekend regardless of which genders were involved. But as others have said, the only people who have ever subjected me to anything of the kind were straight. See, I'm the opposite. I know much more about the love lifes of gay people I know (the minority) then the straight people (the majority) I know. This (at least from my perspective) kinda reinforces the whole "too much of your identity" was tied into your sexual orientation thing. I have never had a straight guy tell me how many sexual partners he's had in a year (well, except DH when we got engaged). I've had two of my gay associates brag about it to me. that seems to be more about them being hoes than them being gay.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 28, 2014 13:17:10 GMT -5
I dont want to hear about anyone's sex life. Gay or straight. Or watch them do it.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jul 28, 2014 13:17:28 GMT -5
Being proud of having sex?
So in what may be a pathetic attempt to add a small amount of humor to this thread to keep it from getting too serious and developing an "Us vs them" mentality.
My former co-worker- who was my closest work friend and is still a good friend of mine told me he hated telling people his wife was pregnant. He said he always imagined the little old bitties at church thinking "Ohhhh! You guys had sex!" because that's exactly what he thought anytime he heard someone was pregnant.
So now as a result every time I find out someone is pregnant I'm always thinking 'OHHH You all had sex!" so to me pregnancy announcements become announcements about people having had sex 6 to 12 weeks ago .
(yes I realize that there are other ways to get pregnant without traditional intercourse- but I share my sense of humor with your average teenage boy so yeah my mind goes straight to the gutter)
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 28, 2014 13:20:32 GMT -5
My gay sales clerk does not fit any stereotype that some people may have of gay men. Think THE BIRDCAGE. That behavior would be a total turn off for me. Just act like a normal person, which he does, because him being gay is normal for him. Anyone straight acting weird would be usually a turn off for me. I know some people take gay behavior to extremes. I'm just glad it's no one I know. But then again, if I run into a straight person who acts bizarre and makes me uncomfortable, I'm outa there as well. I'm an equal opportunity intolerant person!
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 28, 2014 13:21:12 GMT -5
Being proud of having sex?
So in what may be a pathetic attempt to add a small amount of humor to this thread to keep it from getting too serious and developing an "Us vs them" mentality.
My former co-worker- who was my closest work friend and is still a good friend of mine told me he hated telling people his wife was pregnant. He said he always imagined the little old bitties at church thinking "Ohhhh! You guys had sex!" because that's exactly what he thought anytime he heard someone was pregnant.
So now as a result every time I find out someone is pregnant I'm always thinking 'OHHH You all had sex!" so to me pregnancy announcements become announcements about people having had sex 6 to 12 weeks ago .
(yes I realize that there are other ways to get pregnant without traditional intercourse- but I share my sense of humor with your average teenage boy so yeah my mind goes straight to the gutter)
lmao - I think that too! It's bad because I am a very visual person. I don't like hearing about ugly people getting pregnant cuz ICK!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 28, 2014 13:21:53 GMT -5
Being proud of having sex?
So in what may be a pathetic attempt to add a small amount of humor to this thread to keep it from getting too serious and developing an "Us vs them" mentality.
My former co-worker- who was my closest work friend and is still a good friend of mine told me he hated telling people his wife was pregnant. He said he always imagined the little old bitties at church thinking "Ohhhh! You guys had sex!" because that's exactly what he thought anytime he heard someone was pregnant.
So now as a result every time I find out someone is pregnant I'm always thinking 'OHHH You all had sex!" so to me pregnancy announcements become announcements about people having had sex 6 to 12 weeks ago .
(yes I realize that there are other ways to get pregnant without traditional intercourse- but I share my sense of humor with your average teenage boy so yeah my mind goes straight to the gutter)
You've been hanging out with your son a lot lately?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 28, 2014 13:22:28 GMT -5
OMG, Firebird, I forgot about you and Dark. So back to me and Dark... really curious what you were talking about in this post!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 28, 2014 13:24:15 GMT -5
Okay, totally off topic now. Years ago my college roommate called me late at night and said turn on PBS. On it were whales mating and the males you-know-what was long, of course, and undulating in the water. She and I were on the phone giggling hysterically about whales humping. So that's what I think of when someone announces theyre having a baby.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 28, 2014 13:24:18 GMT -5
See, I'm the opposite. I know much more about the love lifes of gay people I know (the minority) then the straight people (the majority) I know. This (at least from my perspective) kinda reinforces the whole "too much of your identity" was tied into your sexual orientation thing. I have never had a straight guy tell me how many sexual partners he's had in a year (well, except DH when we got engaged). I've had two of my gay associates brag about it to me. that seems to be more about them being hoes than them being gay. I agree to an extent. But (and I admit I probably know more gay people then I realize) when a decent % of the folks who have made a point of telling you they are gay share that kind of information, and no one whom you know as straight does so, it does kinda stick in my mind.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 28, 2014 13:25:04 GMT -5
The judgmental asshole part. I had totally forgotten about it until I happened to read it again and it recalled the thread.
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