zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 28, 2014 13:26:19 GMT -5
I'm sure if I outlive DF, there will be some people who think I'm gay. I'm okay with that.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 28, 2014 13:29:14 GMT -5
The judgmental asshole part. I had totally forgotten about it until I happened to read it again and it recalled the thread. Oh yeah Still true, although I think he removed the equivalent insult from his signature.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 28, 2014 13:30:27 GMT -5
I believe he did.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 28, 2014 13:39:10 GMT -5
as much as it pains me to admit this, I kinda agree with Zib's last post. The world will be greatly improved once everyone stops caring about everyone else. That's the whole point. No one would give a rip about "not allowing" gay marriage if everyone could just MTOFB. At the end of the day, "allowing" gay marriage (and I hate that term, like it's some kind of favor we're doing for Teh Gayz) affects my hetero marriage not at all. So as I said in my first post, I really have a tough time understanding why so many straight people are so deeply determined to make gay people behave in a way that they think is more moral. Apparently "living in sin" is better than getting married, if you're gay. Because heaven forbid we screw with the sanctity of marriage. Agreed. I don't want people thinking about my sex life, or want people to pause and trip over introductions of my SO, or want to worry about my kids suffering because of my choices. What I do want is access to the cheapest legal document out there that provides a host of rights and responsibilities for the parties involved. The gay community stayed quiet for decades and we didn't get those same rights as straight people, so I'm sorry people are tired of hearing about it but we're tired of fighting for it too. Anyone who thinks the movement should have taken another course I'd love to hear it. I think that the "shoving it down your throat" comes primarily from social media, and probably very little from.personal interactions-which we can control what we see, read, and listen too. I could rail against uninformed conservatives or I could realize that frustration is directed at my aunt's Facebook page and just hide that instead. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jul 28, 2014 13:43:36 GMT -5
Zib- yes I've been hanging out with DH and DS way too much lately. Between the two of them it's a constant game of "that's what she said!" and inappropriate jokes.
I'm really starting to dread our decision to drive to Winnipeg for DS' college tour next month. 9 hours in the car there and another 9 hours back. Thinking ear plugs may be my best friend
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 28, 2014 13:51:22 GMT -5
Yes, indeed. Rae, you may be right. People I know that are gay just act like anyone else I know. The crazies out on the street just aren't people I do know. Nor care to
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 28, 2014 13:52:58 GMT -5
Being proud of having sex?
So in what may be a pathetic attempt to add a small amount of humor to this thread to keep it from getting too serious and developing an "Us vs them" mentality.
My former co-worker- who was my closest work friend and is still a good friend of mine told me he hated telling people his wife was pregnant. He said he always imagined the little old bitties at church thinking "Ohhhh! You guys had sex!" because that's exactly what he thought anytime he heard someone was pregnant.
So now as a result every time I find out someone is pregnant I'm always thinking 'OHHH You all had sex!" so to me pregnancy announcements become announcements about people having had sex 6 to 12 weeks ago .
(yes I realize that there are other ways to get pregnant without traditional intercourse- but I share my sense of humor with your average teenage boy so yeah my mind goes straight to the gutter)
Picture your parents announcing they are expecting (they had sex), and you will want to poke out your eyes at the mental visualization.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jul 28, 2014 14:10:46 GMT -5
Tennesseer- my dad joked once that he and my mom had only 'done it' 4 times to get us four kids. We were all there and I piped up and said "had to be 5 times because I walked in on you once" and then my brother yells "me too so that makes it 6 times". By the time we got all the way around the table we figured they had done it 10 times since my sister didn't learn her lesson and walked in on them more than once. To which my dad replied- "It's not my fault you (my sister) kept interrupting, Sunday afternoon naps are NOT for sleeping!"
So yeah took some time to get that image out of my head.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 28, 2014 14:22:20 GMT -5
Mardi Gras - Straight Pride Parade
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 28, 2014 14:23:59 GMT -5
... Picture your parents announcing they are expecting (they had sex), and you will want to poke out your eyes at the mental visualization. Grandparents are even worse.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 28, 2014 14:41:35 GMT -5
I was conceived by immaculate conception and so was my mother and all of her siblings. My dad too.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 28, 2014 14:46:51 GMT -5
I was adopted. My parents NEVER had sex!!!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 28, 2014 14:47:14 GMT -5
Jk. I wasn't adopted
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 28, 2014 14:59:19 GMT -5
I think my biggest problem (well, may be not the biggest...I don't know) is that somehow we are becoming a "one opinion" society.
If you don't have the opinion that is "in" - well, you are racist and a biggot and a asshole and....all kinds of other things.
Unless there is physical harm is done to anyone, people should be entitled to believe whatever the hell the want. But it's not the case anymore.
It's fascinating that the entire OP is chastising the guy for HIS OPINION! while complaining that he is the one who wouldn't change.
I am beginning to think that it's much harder to be "anti-popular opinion" right now then to actually be the gay/black/trans/fat/disabled, etc etc etc
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 28, 2014 15:07:20 GMT -5
I am beginning to think that it's much harder to be "anti-popular opinion" right now then to actually be the gay/black/trans/fat/disabled, etc etc etc
Buahahaha. Yeah, you keep thinking that.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 28, 2014 15:08:37 GMT -5
If you don't have the opinion that is "in" - well, you are racist and a biggot and a asshole and....all kinds of other things.
This is basically the "if you're so tolerant why can't you tolerate my intolerance?" argument. Which makes neither logical nor grammatical sense
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 28, 2014 15:15:48 GMT -5
Unless there is physical harm is done to anyone, people should be entitled to believe whatever the hell the want. But it's not the case anymore.
So harm has to be physical to count?
If we were just talking about people's "opinions," that would be fine. But we're not. We're talking about ACTIONS that cause very real harm to any number of real people.
Have you ever heard the expression "your right to swing your fist ends with my nose"? Basically, you're allowed to think and feel however you want until it starts harming someone else.
If these people who believed that being gay was wrong were content to simply BELIEVE that, it would be one thing. But they're not. They're determined to make legislation reflect their MORAL belief, which is not how things are supposed to work.
Yes, I believe it's a worthwhile use of time to get them to see how much harm they are doing to a whole group of people who never did a damn thing to them. You might not think that "disallowing" gay marriage is causing severe harm but a) next time your husband is in the hospital, try to imagine what it would feel like not to be able to sit by his side and hold his hand - or even know how he's doing, if his family didn't feel like telling you, and b) this kind of prejudice DOES CAUSE other forms of harm, such as hate crimes.
Tl;dr - your opinions aren't anyone's business UNLESS they are causing innocent people harm.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 28, 2014 15:16:11 GMT -5
If you don't have the opinion that is "in" - well, you are racist and a biggot and a asshole and....all kinds of other things.
This is basically the "if you're so tolerant why can't you tolerate my intolerance?" argument. Which makes neither logical nor grammatical sense If denying interracial couples the right to marry is racist, why would denying same-sex couples the right to marry not be bigoted? Isn't denying a right to a specific group (based on an immutable characteristic of that group) basically the definition of an "-ism"?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 28, 2014 15:22:11 GMT -5
If denying interracial couples the right to marry is racist, why would denying same-sex couples the right to marry not be bigoted? Denying same sex couple the right to marry is EXACTLY the same as denying interracial couples the right to marry. Both cases involve OTHER PEOPLE'S opinions about WHAT TYPES of people should be married. Of course, there are still plenty of people who believe interracial marriages shouldn't happen. They just keep it to themselves because of the social stigma against that belief. It's a stigma I'm happy to keep alive and well - I hope and believe that one day there will be a similar stigma against stating that you don't believe gay couples should be married.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 28, 2014 15:23:17 GMT -5
No. I disagree. It makes perfect sense. One group of people wants others to accept them as just "people" (which I agree with because they ARE just "people") yet that same group sees everyone who doesn't agree with them as bigoted, uninformed or some other horseshit buzzword of the day that just simply isn't true. I believe in God. I don't see those who don't as horrible people. Some are. No question - but that's not because of their beliefs - it's because of their character. Respect and tolerance goes both ways - whether you think someone is wrong or right.
I suppose it is somewhat of a circular argument, but valid just the same.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 28, 2014 15:27:36 GMT -5
One group of people wants others to accept them as just "people" (which I agree with because they ARE just "people") yet that same group sees everyone who doesn't agree with them as bigoted, uninformed or some other horseshit buzzword of the day that just simply isn't true.
Some of you guys really need to spend a year or two walking in the shoes of others before you decide how they should feel about something.
If you don't know (and don't care to learn) what it's like to be systematically oppressed and have your rights taken away by bigoted, uninformed people who don't even know you, then you really shouldn't be talking about how it's no biggie to deal with bigoted, uninformed people.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 28, 2014 15:32:58 GMT -5
No. I disagree. It makes perfect sense. One group of people wants others to accept them as just "people" (which I agree with because they ARE just "people") yet that same group sees everyone who doesn't agree with them as bigoted, uninformed or some other horseshit buzzword of the day that just simply isn't true. I believe in God. I don't see those who don't as horrible people. Some are. No question - but that's not because of their beliefs - it's because of their character. Respect and tolerance goes both ways - whether you think someone is wrong or right. I suppose it is somewhat of a circular argument, but valid just the same. I don't have any such beliefs like that. I don't choose to spend time with people who think being gay is a sin, but I know many people with that opinion who are moral people. If you say I'm in the minority I'd like to know your source of that information. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jul 28, 2014 15:33:35 GMT -5
If denying interracial couples the right to marry is racist, why would denying same-sex couples the right to marry not be bigoted? Denying same sex couple the right to marry is EXACTLY the same as denying interracial couples the right to marry. Both cases involve OTHER PEOPLE'S opinions about WHAT TYPES of people should be married. Of course, there are still plenty of people who believe interracial marriages shouldn't happen. They just keep it to themselves because of the social stigma against that belief. It's a stigma I'm happy to keep alive and well - I hope and believe that one day there will be a similar stigma against stating that you don't believe gay couples should be married. I have always felt that when it comes to the subject of same sex marriage that it is a civil rights issue plain and simple. Civil rights should be afforded to all citizens and by making same sex marriages illegal you are infringing on 10% of the populations civil rights (most articles I have read list the percentage of the population as being gay right around 8 to 10%).
I don't know what other portion of our population makes up 10% (I'm going to keep using that number because it's a nice round number). Do we say that "Asian American's can no longer get married?" No that idea would be preposterous to most people so why are we saying a different 10% of the population can't have the legal right to marry?
I get that people have their opinions and that some people's belief system makes it "wrong" to be gay. But a marriage is a legal commitment not just a religious one. I didn't get married in a church and I am just as legally married as someone that got married by the pope himself.
Case in point: 1. You go down to the courthouse to get a marriage license allowing you to get married. 2. in some states you even have to take blood tests and jump through other hoops 3. the person that marries you is legally empowered by the government to do so. 4. Once you are married you and your witnesses sign a marriage certificate that is then turned in to the government for recording.
The church is purely a location and officiant option that people can chose but is not at any point in time "required" for the marriage to be legal. I was married on a rock in Alaska, my sister was married by a priest, my brother was married by a judge and my other brother was married by an official in Jamaica. At the end of the day all 4 of our marriages have the same legal standing and only one happened to be in a church.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 28, 2014 15:33:47 GMT -5
Well? I don't know who "you guys" is, but I'm assuming you mean me since you quoted my post. What exactly will I learn, since it's apparently assumed I have no contact with homosexuals in my world?
If you wish to continue to be dismissive and act like anyone who doesn't agree with you must, somehow, be a total recluse with no contacts in the outside world, feel free. It you wish to continue to believe that anybody who doesn't agree with you just, somehow, just not know what they are talking about, please feel free. It's an argument neither you or I will win. We don't agree. It's a given that must make me horrible, and I'm ok with you feeling like that. The funny part is we don't disagree. But since I won't label people with horseshit names, I'm bad. Got it.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 28, 2014 15:43:43 GMT -5
Well? I don't know who "you guys" is, but I'm assuming you mean me since you quoted my post. What exactly will I learn, since it's apparently assumed I have no contact with homosexuals in my world? If you wish to continue to be dismissive and act like anyone who doesn't agree with you must, somehow, be a total recluse with no contacts in the outside world, feel free. It you wish to continue to believe that anybody who doesn't agree with you just, somehow, just not know what they are talking about, please feel free. It's an argument neither you or I will win. We don't agree. It's a given that must make me horrible, and I'm ok with you feeling like that. The funny part is we don't disagree. But since I won't label people with horseshit names, I'm bad. Got it. I am so freaking confused. Why are you getting so defensive over my post? If you think being gay or gay marriage is wrong, just say that. Instead of saying that all gay people hate people who oppose gay marriage when no one has said anything like that. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 28, 2014 15:45:28 GMT -5
I'm so confused over the tone that this thread has taken. No one is talking about taking anyone's rights away...as far as I can remember, this was about a straight person saying they have every right to be proud of being straight as a gay person has of being gay (or something like that). I'm not sure how that turned into anyone oppressing anyone.....
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 28, 2014 15:45:46 GMT -5
... If you don't have the opinion that is "in" - well, you are racist and a biggot and a asshole and....all kinds of other things. Unless there is physical harm is done to anyone, people should be entitled to believe whatever the hell the want. But it's not the case anymore. ... People are fully entitled to believe whatever the hell they want to believe. They just aren't entitled to not be called out for their racist, bigoted, asshole views.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 28, 2014 15:46:59 GMT -5
Because if you don't believe their way, that makes you one?
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 28, 2014 15:48:53 GMT -5
Well? I don't know who "you guys" is, but I'm assuming you mean me since you quoted my post. What exactly will I learn, since it's apparently assumed I have no contact with homosexuals in my world? If you wish to continue to be dismissive and act like anyone who doesn't agree with you must, somehow, be a total recluse with no contacts in the outside world, feel free. It you wish to continue to believe that anybody who doesn't agree with you just, somehow, just not know what they are talking about, please feel free. It's an argument neither you or I will win. We don't agree. It's a given that must make me horrible, and I'm ok with you feeling like that. The funny part is we don't disagree. But since I won't label people with horseshit names, I'm bad. Got it. I am so freaking confused. Why are you getting so defensive over my post? If you think being gay or gay marriage is wrong, just say that. Instead of saying that all gay people hate people who oppose gay marriage when no one has said anything like that. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards It wasn't your post. It was Firebird's post I was responding to. I just didn't use the quote thing and others posted in between. I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. I'm sorry you are so defensive, but I've said like a million times that I don't see one thing wrong with gay marriage. I don't know how much more clear I can be. My issue is labeling people who don't as bigoted or uninformed or any other of that trite and tired crap. I haven't read you doing that so I don't know why you are taking such exception.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 28, 2014 15:49:05 GMT -5
Well? I don't know who "you guys" is, but I'm assuming you mean me since you quoted my post. What exactly will I learn, since it's apparently assumed I have no contact with homosexuals in my world? If you wish to continue to be dismissive and act like anyone who doesn't agree with you must, somehow, be a total recluse with no contacts in the outside world, feel free. It you wish to continue to believe that anybody who doesn't agree with you just, somehow, just not know what they are talking about, please feel free. It's an argument neither you or I will win. We don't agree. It's a given that must make me horrible, and I'm ok with you feeling like that. The funny part is we don't disagree. But since I won't label people with horseshit names, I'm bad. Got it. I am so freaking confused. Why are you getting so defensive over my post? If you think being gay or gay marriage is wrong, just say that. Instead of saying that all gay people hate people who oppose gay marriage when no one has said anything like that. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
I do know that super-religious people do not approve of gay marriage. My grandma died believing that her daughter was going to hell because she was gay. My grandma loved my aunt but she didn't approve of being lesbian because it went against her religious beliefs. She never treated my aunt as an outcast but she prayed every night that my aunt would find a "good Christian man to cure her of her sins"...even my aunt stopped getting offended after many years..
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