The rug was finally pulled out...

[zibazinski]

I'm probably old enough to be your mother. The nice thing about age is no more footing around. Call it the way it is not the way you think it ought to be.

[Lizard Queen]

If you want to fight this, then acuse them of discriminating against you because of your Aspergers, which can be considered a disability.  I don't think you want to go there, but you could.

[Nazgul Girl]

Jul 17, 2014 20:31:26 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

If you want to fight this, then acuse them of discriminating against you because of your Aspergers, which can be considered a disability.  I don't think you want to go there, but you could.

  Darn it, I would definitely use it, because that could be the underlying cause of the whole discipline scenario.    I would use it until the cows came home, picked her up, and took her back out to pasture.   Based on what Phoenix wrote about not always being understood regarding some of his personality characteristics, even though most people do "get" him, I think this is the most probable cause of his manager's disciplining him.

[Lizard Queen]

Jul 17, 2014 20:39:57 GMT -5 Nazgul Girl said:

Jul 17, 2014 20:31:26 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

If you want to fight this, then acuse them of discriminating against you because of your Aspergers, which can be considered a disability.  I don't think you want to go there, but you could.

  Darn it, I would definitely use it, because that could be the underlying cause of the whole discipline scenario.    I would use it until the cows came home, picked her up, and took her back out to pasture.   Based on what Phoenix wrote about not always being understood regarding some of his personality characteristics, even though most people do "get" him, I think this is the most probable cause of his manager's disciplining him.

I totally agree that it is the crux of the problem.  However, he said before that he was at a dead-end with this job, and was going to look for a new one anyway.  I don't know if his going there would reflect badly on his future job prospects. 

[zibazinski]

If she's got it in for him, nothing he can do about it except protect himself.

[Deleted]

Phoenix, you should always act with integrity. You have to live with yourself a lot longer than any knucklehead you have to deal with does.

Maintain your faith in yourself that your expertise and skills resulted in an accurate and defensible decision. Build your case. Do you have any peers or maybe your old boss that could look it over and give you unbiased feedback?

Interesting that she had a meltdown and had to take time off work. Maybe you will outlast her!

Is there a possibility that she found out that you were looking for a new job and wants you to leave on her terms and timetable and not your own?

[happyhoix]

Jul 17, 2014 18:50:17 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Jul 17, 2014 18:40:28 GMT -5 kjto1 said:

I'm not sure I understand this part of your post.  What are your options?  Do something dramatic (like what?) and get fired?  I think you need to do what you need to do to hold onto this job until you have a new job.  This is a tough situation to be in. 

Yeah, I know it's a foolish notion.

It's kind of a morbid analogy, but during the holocaust, the Jews meekly went along with what their captors made them do, until the every end.  The Nazi's kept them in the dark about their ultimate plans, and they all went long to the end, doing what they were supposed to because they didn't want to make it worse.  It's a form of Stockholm syndrome, identifying with your captors.

As I said, I know I don't have much of a choice, but going to all this work to be professional, be efficient, be a "good boy," sometimes I just wonder if it's going to pay off is all.

It will pay off when you look for another job. You'll be able to say you're leaving your current job because you're looking for better opportunities.

If you do something dramatic like nail a list of complaints on the breakroom door and setting fire to your trash can as you storm out the door you'll get a temporary feeling of euphoria, but you'll have to explain to the next person interviewing you for a job why you left your old one without giving notice - and that will look bad, no matter how justified you were in what you did.

Besides, from your description of her temper tantrum and having to take off two days from work, I don't think you're the only person she's clashing with there. She may be cute and bubbly but if she's also prone to tantrums and paranoid delusions she won't last long in that job - maybe she'll be gone before you are.

[vonna]

Phoenix -- as your supervisor, can she be "relieved for cause" if you mess up?

I'm just wondering if this is part of why she is "out to get you".  If she has never been in that kind of position before, she may be reacting inappropriately to being told that if you mess up, she will be relieved of her duties.  Some managers don't know how to balance trust with responsibility.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jul 17, 2014 18:30:33 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I don't know what it means, it could mean nothing.

Yesterday, late in the day, she was obviously very stressed and agitated about something, even screamed out in frustration. She then left early and took leave for the next two days (today and tomorrow).

I'm guessing that someone who knows their shit told her that what you did was the proper solution even though it wasn't by the book. 

I'd keep your head down, send her emails about deadlines/inspections/whatever it is you do in the field and document everything.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Phoenix, I'm curious about the "screamed out in frustration". It may not mean much either way, but did she make a screaming sound just to her general surroundings or did she scream AT a person?

If it was the first, she might have trouble balancing her stress level. If it was the second, maybe she was written up for creating a hostile work environment for someone?

Either way, I imagine she was embarrassed and needed to remove herself from her surroundings to find her center if she wasn't actually sent home. 

[Abby Normal]

Jul 18, 2014 10:32:37 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Phoenix, I'm curious about the "screamed out in frustration". It may not mean much either way, but did she make a screaming sound just to her general surroundings or did she scream AT a person?

 

And were you that person or just in the area?

Regardless, you should prepare yourself.  Even if she puts you back on your regular duties, the fact that she had you move into the cube next to yours means that she plans on keeping an eye on you.  It's unlikely you'll move back to the old office.

Who is doing your duties in the meantime?  I would definitely be sending them emails (ccing her) on deadlines and such so that nothing is missed.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jul 18, 2014 11:54:37 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Jul 18, 2014 10:43:09 GMT -5 Abby Normal said:

And were you that person or just in the area?

Regardless, you should prepare yourself.  Even if she puts you back on your regular duties, the fact that she had you move into the cube next to yours means that she plans on keeping an eye on you.  It's unlikely you'll move back to the old office.

Who is doing your duties in the meantime?  I would definitely be sending them emails (ccing her) on deadlines and such so that nothing is missed.

I think she made him move prior to this reassignment.  IIRC, it was at the same time as she instituted the whiteboard rule. 

I thought she made his move (remove?) a 2ndary office he was using.  So now all of his stuff is in 1 place - across from her. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Even if she puts you back on your regular duties, the fact that she had you move into the cube next to yours means that she plans on keeping an eye on you

Yeah, even if you win this round she's going to be watching you for the next thing she can pounce on.

Honestly unless by some stroke of luck she ends up being fired I think you'd be better off looking for another job ASAP. It doesn't sound like she's going to rest till she gets you fired, she couldn't do it b/c of the whiteboard so she's trying it with your rule book violation. If she doesn't get you on that she'll find something else.

I realized that with my last employer after they finally decided to get formal with the process. They wanted me out and even if I had "won" they would have found another way to get rid of me. Sticking around would have just continued to generate bad blood. So I graciously left and in exchange they agreed to not put anything into my record so I could keep applying for jobs here.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jul 18, 2014 11:57:04 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Jul 18, 2014 11:55:39 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

I thought she made his move (remove?) a 2ndary office he was using.  So now all of his stuff is in 1 place - across from her. 

Yeah,  she did that too.  I was just assuming that was because she didn't have anything else for him to do while on admin duties. 

Probably. 

[sesfw]

but it just feels like I'm doing a lot of work and taking the high road, and I wonder if it really will make a difference in the end.

I don't know.  I know when this type of stuff was thrown at me I tried to take the high road and it didn't make a difference to anyone but me. ........ I felt good about myself because I didn't lower myself to the other level.

Continue looking for another position ........ good luck my friend

[8 Bit WWBG]

I too wondered if Phoenix could use his Asbergers as kind of a safety net for some kind of discrimination complaint.

Rules are for people who respect rules.  Sometimes there comes a point where you have to use whatever you have at your disposal.

[TheOtherMe]

Phoenix, I'm a retired federal employee.  We got a new manager and he obviously started trying to fire a friend of mine.  She fought him every step of the way.  He succeeded in firing her and then she sued him.  It stood up in court.

However, it cost the agency over $1.5 million (back in the early 90's) all management was told to never think about firing for work reasons again.  If managers wanted to get rid of an employee, you can usually do it at the IRS by travel voucher fraud or tax return issues and that doesn't cost $1.5 million.  She didn't file travel vouchers except for hotels once he started the harassment and was very careful on her tax returns--to the point of leaving off deductions.

[Wisconsin Beth]

How's it going Phoenix? 

And I have a new sympathy for you.  I'm being micromanaged by my manager on something and it sucks.  AT least my immediate supervisor agrees it's over the top.  Which is comforting. 

[greeniis10]

I'm nosy, I mean wondering, how Phoenix is doing, too.  Thanks for asking, Beth!  Hopefully he'll have a good update for us.  Although, sorry to hear about your current work issues. 

[8 Bit WWBG]

I'm sending good thoughts your way too Pheonix and hoping the situation has improved.

[Phoenix84]

Jul 24, 2014 8:11:53 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

How's it going Phoenix? 

And I have a new sympathy for you.  I'm being micromanaged by my manager on something and it sucks.  AT least my immediate supervisor agrees it's over the top.  Which is comforting. 

Hmmm, yes, it's been a while.

Nothing dramatic has happened really.

I finally got ahold of the employee relations specialist who officially represents my organization. She didn't really have anything to say I didn't already know.

Assigning me to a detail is not inherently disciplinary in nature, so there's nothing to officially appeal.  I considered doing what's called "alternative dispute resolution" but she says that isn't really the appropriate venue for this kind of thing, and recommended I just wait until she does something official.

I know she's doing some type of investigation into "misconduct" and that the scientists and safety committee have not been informed as to the reason, just that I've been removed from duties.  She's also planning to do an audit of the radiation safety program.

Between the new assignment, and removing access to virtually all the buildings, and removing my access to the records, she's effectively shoving me in a corner and keeping me in the dark.

While it is frustrating, I was able to get everything I needed from the records before she cut off my access, so that's shutting the barn door after the horse has got out.  I also have ways of finding out some things.

It's clear she doesn't trust me in the slightest, she won't even let me keep records locked away.  Which is strange, because sooner or later she's going to have to turn the program back over to me, unless she plans on firing me immediately.  A detail cannot last indefinitely.  She's doing a lot of work she'll have to undo at some point.

Ultimately, I suspect she's going to do her investigation, and blow everything out of proportion (since that's what she does).  She'll use it to put me on a performance improvement plan.  I'm sure it will be riddled with asinine and extremely time consuming tasks that I'll have to complete.  And I am skeptical if that happens, if she's able to be unbias about it, she really seems to have it out for me.

Ultimately, I'm trying to gather what information I can, and try to anticipate the basis of her arguments so I can effectively counter them, or at least as best I can.  Really though, the only long term fix is to get another job, I really don't have a choice.  I just need to try and stall the process long enough to get another job.  Because things will never go back to the way they were.  She'll never trust me, and I'll never trust her.  That's really all I can do, it's going to be me or her, we can't coexist.

The detail itself is okay in some respects.  I've basically been reassigned to menial tasks related to property.  Helping to break down office furniture, pick up furniture and transport it back to the warehouse, cutting down boxes, running trash to the dumpster, stuff like that.  While it's hard physical work, I don't mind it that much.  I'm more annoyed about being reassigned away from what I care about than the job I'm doing now.  There honestly isn't enough to do though.  I probably only work 2-4 hours out of an 8 hour shift.  They really didn't need the help there, so I just sit and wait for the rest of the time.

The job search is going okay I guess.  I seem to be routinely forwarded to the selecting official for jobs I apply for, but no one has contacted me yet for an interview.  This process just takes time though.

I just try to keep it professional, do the assigned tasks as quickly and efficiently as possible, gather what information I can, and keep applying for jobs.

[Phoenix84]

These are the possibilities as I see it. Either way, she's going to do some type of investigation.

1. She puts me on a PIP, possibly with some disciplinary action along with it. This is the most likely scenario, as I see it.

2. She gathers enough evidence to fire me immediately. It's unlikely though, unless I caused some major incident I'm not aware of.

3. She doesn't find any evidence of wrongdoing, and I go back as normal, also very unlikely.

4. She does something like demote me or I'm moved to another position.

The detail is currently set to last 60 days, so I imagine she'll make her move in September, when it ends.

It's kind of interesting though, I found out from talking with someone that a similar scenario played out with my predecessor in 2009.  She wasn't there then, but the question was raised why this happens to people in my position, that there may be some flaw in how the radiation safety program is managed.

[Deleted]

Is it possible that she is directed by the higher management to get rid of you for some reason? Maybe they are looking to change things around.

In any case, couldnt she give you a little more professional work of some sort? I mean making you haul trash, break down boxes, etc for a scientist seems like a waste of talent and money. It sounds like she is trying to break your will or something.

[973beachbum]

Phoenix84 I know you are trying to improve your relationship with her and make your communications very easy for her to read, but in this case I would do the opposite.   This is assuming you are looking for another job.  She is going after you for some reason that isn't about your actual job and won't give you the fair chance to work with her and fix the problem so I wouldn't give her a fair chance either.  I wouldn't do anything wrong but I would use as much technical jargon that you can in all your answers.  You know she can't understand it so I would exploit it.  If she can't understand the technical part it would be very hard to dispute them.  It would put her in a very uncomfortable position of either having to admit she doesn't understand what you said, which she seems to not want to do, or try and bluff her way through .  Odds are if she tries to bluff her way through she will make a mistake.  Embarrassing her is just a bonus.

I guess my best advice is stop playing her game and being on defense all the time.  She is never going to give you a fair chance because for reasons out of your control she doesn't like you.  You are the top expert in what you do at that facility.  Write all comunication like it and expect her to understand, or she can start acting like a big girl and admit to the things she doesn't know.

Again this is asssuming you are set on getting another job and it probably goes without saying I'm a bitch.

[zibazinski]

I am also reasonably sure what she is doing, she isn't allowed to do. Get a lawyer. Even in my non union state a teacher was sent to shipping and receiving while they decided what they were going to do with him for having an affair with a co-worker. SHE, of course, got fired, while HE, of course, was put on other duties as assigned. He hired a lawyer and he was immediately transferred to my school. As a teacher again.

[mmhmm]

Phoenix84, I've been following your trials and tribulations on this job. I'm really sorry you're going through something like this. From what you've said, I can see no evidence this woman has made any effort to help you understand what she expects. If your expectations aren't clear, it's pretty foolish to expect to have them met. Glad you're working with HR, and keeping copies of everything. Just be sure to document, document, document. Do what you have to do, hon, for as long as you have to do it. In the meantime, looking for a better place to use your skills is probably the best you can do. There's something out there for you. Finding it should be your concentration now.

Best of luck to you. I hope you find the perfect job that will give you a place to shine and allow you to bring your skills into an appreciative environment.

[flamingo]

Jul 26, 2014 9:21:22 GMT -5 973beachbum said:

Phoenix84 I know you are trying to improve your relationship with her and make your communications very easy for her to read, but in this case I would do the opposite.   This is assuming you are looking for another job.  She is going after you for some reason that isn't about your actual job and won't give you the fair chance to work with her and fix the problem so I wouldn't give her a fair chance either.  I wouldn't do anything wrong but I would use as much technical jargon that you can in all your answers.  You know she can't understand it so I would exploit it.  If she can't understand the technical part it would be very hard to dispute them.  It would put her in a very uncomfortable position of either having to admit she doesn't understand what you said, which she seems to not want to do, or try and bluff her way through .  Odds are if she tries to bluff her way through she will make a mistake.  Embarrassing her is just a bonus.

I guess my best advice is stop playing her game and being on defense all the time.  She is never going to give you a fair chance because for reasons out of your control she doesn't like you.  You are the top expert in what you do at that facility.  Write all comunication like it and expect her to understand, or she can start acting like a big girl and admit to the things she doesn't know.

Again this is asssuming you are set on getting another job and it probably goes without saying I'm a bitch.

I had a job a few years ago where I got a new supervisor a few years into my being there. Not only had she NEVER supervised anyone before, but she'd never worked in my area. Once I figured out she had it out for me (in most people's opinion it was because she new nothing about my area and hated that she had ask me, her underling, how to do things) I started doing what 973beachbum suggested. I used as much technical language as possible, corrected her every time she was wrong (in the nicest, sweetest way possible), and generally made her realize she didn't know what she was talking about. She used terms wrong all the time, so I asked numerous clarifying questions: "Did you really mean to send this email to xxxx, even though the text of the email says to me it should go to yyyy?" etc. I eventually found a new job, and shortly after I left, they changed her managerial duties to not include the department I had been director of. I really felt it was just a matter of time before I'd have been in your position, but all my documentation showed that I new what I was talking about and she didn't. Don't know if it helped, but in the moment, it made me feel better.

Good luck! Regardless of the reasons, this is a tough situation to be in. I hope it works out for you.

[Deleted]

I don't understand how she can transfer you to doing a job that you don't have the qualifications/certifications/training for?  especially since I'm sure the position you were hired into didn't have those listed as job duties.

[msventoux]

Jul 26, 2014 10:24:42 GMT -5 @singlemominmd said:

I don't understand how she can transfer you to doing a job that you don't have the qualifications/certifications/training for?  especially since I'm sure the position you were hired into didn't have those listed as job duties.

"Other duties as assigned" 

[Phoenix84]

Jul 26, 2014 0:36:09 GMT -5 @bunnysmom said:

Is it possible that she is directed by the higher management to get rid of you for some reason? Maybe they are looking to change things around.

In any case, couldnt she give you a little more professional work of some sort? I mean making you haul trash, break down boxes, etc for a scientist seems like a waste of talent and money. It sounds like she is trying to break your will or something.

I suppose anything is possible, but I doubt it. They need someone like me to meet regulatory tasks, that doesn't change. I guess the only reason they'd want to do that would be to save money, maybe hire someone lower grade, or try and contract everything out.

I agree that it's a waste of money and talent. I'd prefer to give the taxpayers value for their money, but it's not my call. I'm also worried about throwing my back out or something on this detail, it's not worth it.