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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 12:22:00 GMT -5
Here is the math as I see it: You are currently paying $3400 a year to cover your two sons. If you stop covering son #2 you will pay $3400 to cover one son. If you continue to cover both sons, you will pay $3400 to cover two sons in the future. What does make a difference is how much you will receive from one or two of your ex husbands. It sounds like you have chosen to cover son #1 even though ex #1 has him covered. That I assume means you are not getting any money to cover that expense. If you continue to cover son #2, ex #2 will have to pay half of that expense. I would contend that amount should be $850. That is half of the half of the insurance for family coverage that covers two children.
how did you get that amount? you would first need to know the difference in cost between individual coverage and family coverage. That is the difference between single and family coverage. I actually pay around $4600/year, but single is around $1200.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 12:27:43 GMT -5
how did you get that amount? you would first need to know the difference in cost between individual coverage and family coverage. That is the difference between single and family coverage. I actually pay around $4600/year, but single is around $1200. you can't drop family coverage until the next open enrollment period. I don't know about you, but I would prefer to be in control and not have to rely on someone else providing EOBs so I can use my FSA. how is unreimbursed medical covered - 50/50?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 13, 2014 12:29:54 GMT -5
Here is the math as I see it: You are currently paying $3400 a year to cover your two sons. If you stop covering son #2 you will pay $3400 to cover one son. If you continue to cover both sons, you will pay $3400 to cover two sons in the future. What does make a difference is how much you will receive from one or two of your ex husbands. It sounds like you have chosen to cover son #1 even though ex #1 has him covered. That I assume means you are not getting any money to cover that expense. If you continue to cover son #2, ex #2 will have to pay half of that expense. I would contend that amount should be $850. That is half of the half of the insurance for family coverage that covers two children.
how did you get that amount? you would first need to know the difference in cost between individual coverage and family coverage. See reply #593.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 12:38:29 GMT -5
That is the difference between single and family coverage. I actually pay around $4600/year, but single is around $1200. you can't drop family coverage until the next open enrollment period. I don't know about you, but I would prefer to be in control and not have to rely on someone else providing EOBs so I can use my FSA. how is unreimbursed medical covered - 50/50? Actually, a dependent becoming eligible for other coverage is a qualifying event with out plan, but I'm not going to give up coverage. I'm going to talk to him about why he wants it, then go from there.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 12:39:34 GMT -5
you can't drop family coverage until the next open enrollment period. I don't know about you, but I would prefer to be in control and not have to rely on someone else providing EOBs so I can use my FSA. how is unreimbursed medical covered - 50/50? Actually, a dependent becoming eligible for other coverage is a qualifying event with out plan, but I'm not going to give up coverage. I'm going to talk to him about why he wants it, then go from there. but how does that apply to being able to drop your older son?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 12:40:25 GMT -5
I also don't understand why you are letting him take lead here. Are you writing up your own package ideas... Not really, which is probably why he is.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 12:42:55 GMT -5
Actually, a dependent becoming eligible for other coverage is a qualifying event with out plan, but I'm not going to give up coverage. I'm going to talk to him about why he wants it, then go from there. but how does that apply to being able to drop your older son? I assumed qualifying even lets you change pretty much everything. When second son was born it was midyear and I changed from single to family and added both kids. Not just the qualifying event kid.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 12:56:27 GMT -5
I also don't understand why you are letting him take lead here. Are you writing up your own package ideas... Not really, which is probably why he is. You need to be doing it to, so you come to the middle. Do not let his be the basis of negotiation!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 13:09:35 GMT -5
Less than 5 min on the state support calculator with guessed numbers: Incomes 50K/35K, Health Insurance 283/mo by you, Child Care $450/mo by you: Assumes you pay child care & receive state/fed tax credits (so your part of child care is higher)
| EX | MPL | Total | Basic CS | 575 | 368 | 943 | Child Care | 215 | 235 | 450 | Heath/Dental Coverage | 173 | 110 | 283 | TOTAL
| $963
| $713
| $1676
| Unreimbursed Medical | 61%
| 39%
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Is your existing order final or temporary?
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jul 13, 2014 13:13:05 GMT -5
Are you comparing apples to apples where insurance coverage is concerned? Can your children still use their same doctors or will that change with change in coverage/carrier? Is your employer covering a certain % of your premium. Is his employer covering a % of his premium? Don't know if any of these question make one iota of difference but just popped into my head. I don't know anything about the coverage his company offers. Only the price list. One is named after a healthcare system in our area, so I'm pretty sure you can only use the doctors in that network which totally wouldn't fly with me. Then you better be taking the bull by the horns and finding out. I would require a copy of his coverage, etc and take it along with copies of your coverage to your attorney. This is way to important to let HIM handle things and then you may be sitting on the sideline SOL. I would be so proactive in this matter that it would make heads spin but then that is just me
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 13:14:13 GMT -5
The only order now is that he pays me $500/month until the hearing in August.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 13:17:54 GMT -5
I don't know anything about the coverage his company offers. Only the price list. One is named after a healthcare system in our area, so I'm pretty sure you can only use the doctors in that network which totally wouldn't fly with me. Then you better be taking the bull by the horns and finding out. I would require a copy of his coverage, etc and take it along with copies of your coverage to your attorney. This is way to important to let HIM handle things and then you may be sitting on the sideline SOL. I would be so proactive in this matter that it would make heads spin but then that is just me DHS compares the insurance coverage. But, if we want to get this all taken care of at the next hearing and not have to come back, we'll have to work it out ahead of time. They won't just say he gets to take the insurance without them having copies of everything comparing the two. I had to submit all the plan details for mine when I originally filed, but at the time ex was also covered under mine, so it was kind of a no brainer that I would carry insurance. I really don't care if his insurance is incredible. I don't want to depend on him keeping his job or providing me with all the paperwork I need.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 13:25:56 GMT -5
Does that order cover the parenting plan and child support, or do you have 2 separate orders? If everything is in the one order that is temporary until August, then everything is on the table for negotiation or resolution. If that is the case I really suggest you take the lead in proposing the whole package. The state has calculators & parenting plan worksheets that can help you structure it.
If the hearing was pre-set in the original decree for August, then he does not have to have you served for that. You were present in court when it was ordered and had notice.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 13:31:50 GMT -5
Parenting plans and child support cases are never combined in MN. We have separate judges/court rooms for each. I'm the one petitioning for child support and he's been served for that. We had one hearing in June when he'd just been offered two positions pending background/drug check and the judge set a new date for August.
He's the one who filed for a modification of the parenting time. There has been one hearing for that, but I didn't show up because he never served me. My attorney told me to blow it off.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 13:37:16 GMT -5
Well, if he wants this support deal set in August he's probably not going to be awarded the insurance. I see now on the papers that he's not eligible for the plan for 3 months, so it wouldn't be until October that he could even sign up. I can't see a judge not just saying I should just keep the insurance. It' not like it's a huge savings and I seriously doubt he has a lot better coverage. I just have $400/pp deductible and then it's 80/20. But, it seems I never even pay that. All well child stuff is free and all the urgent care visits are just a $25/copay.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 13:39:46 GMT -5
I totally understand and agree with where you are coming from on the insurance thing MPL. It is easy to say do continue covering but i guess what singlemom doesnt realize is that you dont have the extra income to cover double the insurance. And you wouldnt have to keep wondering when/if your kids will/did lose coverage for smtg stupid your ex did. I would come up with a settlement yourself, give room for negotiations and go from there.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 13:41:32 GMT -5
That is the difference between single and family coverage. I actually pay around $4600/year, but single is around $1200. you can't drop family coverage until the next open enrollment period. I don't know about you, but I would prefer to be in control and not have to rely on someone else providing EOBs so I can use my FSA. how is unreimbursed medical covered - 50/50?It's supposed to be 50/50 but I know I'll never see a dime of that. I never ask older son's Dad to help out with medical above and beyond the support payment either. For one thing he agreed to more support than he even had to pay, so I wouldn't nit pick a few hundred in medical a year. I might feel differently if we were dealing with cancer treatments or something, but our medical bills are pretty low.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 13:56:31 GMT -5
I totally understand and agree with where you are coming from on the insurance thing MPL. It is easy to say do continue covering but i guess what singlemom doesnt realize is that you dont have the extra income to cover double the insurance. And you wouldnt have to keep wondering when/if your kids will/did lose coverage for smtg stupid your ex did. I would come up with a settlement yourself, give room for negotiations and go from there. except she's covering it now.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 13:59:51 GMT -5
And she is getting support. Her support wouldnt include his portion and she would have to pay him for her pirtion.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 14:16:31 GMT -5
And she is getting support. Her support wouldnt include his portion and she would have to pay him for her pirtion. That's the worst part. I'd have to pay whatever percent of his in addition to mine.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 14:20:46 GMT -5
There is no reason for double insurance. There is no reason for the guy with the bad work history to carry insurance. There is no reason for moving to a worse plan.
This is why YOU have your own package proposal
You start by asking for half the difference in individual/family plans. You realize you will settle for him paying you half what his would have cost. But you hope for something in te middle (after all, his isn't an apples to apples plan!)
That is why you need your own starting point.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 14:28:36 GMT -5
She needs to start from % splits based on income. She gets a slight reduction in available income since she has an additional child she supports. Don't start from 50/50 if that is not what the state would calculate.
This is no different than you taking lesser child support when he is unemployed.
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whoami
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Post by whoami on Jul 13, 2014 14:33:18 GMT -5
Having 2 policies is a pain the ass. The insurance company has rules as to who pays first....you dont get to pick. I think it goes by who is older if its not a government policy like Tricare etc.
Son was covered for a while under 2 policies and the crappy one was the one that paid first. I would then have to turn around and file with the second insurance and wait for however long to be reimbursed for my OOP costs which were quite high because the Rx coverage stunk. The check reimbursing me was made out to ex as he was the policy holder, and so I sent it to him and had to wait until he got around to sending me my money (which I paid OOP in the first place) I hated having to send him checks in the thousands, because he was a check bouncer and I never knew whether the check I would get from him was rubber. In the end, our costs were low but it was still a huge hassle to get everything done.
Your lawyer should be drawing up a proposal...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 14:42:02 GMT -5
She needs to start from % splits based on income. She gets a slight reduction in available income since she has an additional child she supports. Don't start from 50/50 if that is not what the state would calculate. This is no different than you taking lesser child support when he is unemployed. I don't think that matters for the one receiving child support.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jul 13, 2014 17:21:19 GMT -5
Then you better be taking the bull by the horns and finding out. I would require a copy of his coverage, etc and take it along with copies of your coverage to your attorney. This is way to important to let HIM handle things and then you may be sitting on the sideline SOL. I would be so proactive in this matter that it would make heads spin but then that is just me DHS compares the insurance coverage. But, if we want to get this all taken care of at the next hearing and not have to come back, we'll have to work it out ahead of time. They won't just say he gets to take the insurance without them having copies of everything comparing the two. I had to submit all the plan details for mine when I originally filed, but at the time ex was also covered under mine, so it was kind of a no brainer that I would carry insurance. I really don't care if his insurance is incredible. I don't want to depend on him keeping his job or providing me with all the paperwork I need. Ok, I keep forgetting that DHS is involved in all this. But I fully understand you not wanting to depend of him given his track record so I should say fight for keeping yours and maybe DHS will see that he has a bad track record as far as jobs are concerned. I really feel for you for having to go thru all this
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 17:26:30 GMT -5
Having 2 policies is a pain the ass. The insurance company has rules as to who pays first....you dont get to pick. I think it goes by who is older if its not a government policy like Tricare etc. Son was covered for a while under 2 policies and the crappy one was the one that paid first. I would then have to turn around and file with the second insurance and wait for however long to be reimbursed for my OOP costs which were quite high because the Rx coverage stunk. The check reimbursing me was made out to ex as he was the policy holder, and so I sent it to him and had to wait until he got around to sending me my money (which I paid OOP in the first place) I hated having to send him checks in the thousands, because he was a check bouncer and I never knew whether the check I would get from him was rubber. In the end, our costs were low but it was still a huge hassle to get everything done. Your lawyer should be drawing up a proposal... Normally it's who's birthday is first in the year, but this is trumped by a divorce decree, if they're double covered then, then the one who is supposed to carry the insurance by the court order is the primary. Every couple years I have to submit a form to both mine and ex's insurance stating that we don't follow the birthday rule. Having double insurance has worked pretty slick for us. Pretty much whatever the first one doesn't pay, the second one does, but they're both Blue Cross Blue Shield. One of Texas and one of Minnesota, so that might make it easier. Still, I wouldn't have it if it wasn't free.
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Jul 13, 2014 19:18:59 GMT -5
Several of my points have already been made - that there is most likely a 90 day waiting period for the start of insurance coverage from a new job. Also that a precipitating event can re-open the entire insurance issue.
However, I would really be careful about how much information you share with your XH before the hearing. Your goal is too see that your son is protected and well cared for. XH is not able to do that at this point in time and that is what you need to help the court to see.
I agree with the party who said he needs to show job security by length of time on the job and that 2 years is a good place to start. Let the XH go into court fighting to add his son to his insurance then calmly ask when coverage does not start - 90 days after actual date of hire? ALsso, will he even have started work buy the hearing date in August?
I understand your desire to be fair and not wanting to throw the X under the bus. However, the bottom line is that this is about the safety and welfare of your child. Unfortunately, statistics are not on the side of your XH. You need to do everything you can do to insure that your son is in the best possible situation at all times and for whatever reason it is mostly up to you to determine that. Most importantly, know that you are not a vengeful person and that is something your XH should be grateful for.
Regarding reasonable visitation, you can google it but I personal would consider 1-2 hours every Wednesday night (so that it does not exceed 2 hours) and 2-4 hours every other Saturday (not to exceed 4) as being a most reasonable and appropriate place to start. I feel badly that the X wants more but at this time it just cannot be. I feel badly that your son wants more time with his father but that is to be expected because he is a 4 year old child and therefore does not have the maturity and judgment to make that decision. He may even need to be told that the reasons for the limits are because daddy was been sick and needs more time to recover. Just like you would never allow your son to play in the street, you have to protect him from a father who has used him as a shield against the consequences of his own actions, thus placing the child at unacceptable risk.
Frankly what the X is doing is textbook behavior: now that the crisis is past, he wants everything back the way it was ... yesterday, if nort sooner. Unfortunately that is not the way real life works. The fact that his is unable to see the need for a slow moving approach, where he proves and re-proves himself each and every step of the way, shows how far from well he still is. Also, unfortunately you are the one that has to look inside yourself and decide what is best and then request it. One way the X could show good intent is by paying maximum child support in a timely manner, being reasonable and rational in these negotiations and by cooperating with you and by ceasing his continuing attempts to manipulate you.
Regarding the haying issue - I am very glad you did not accept his help. All it would take is one moment of weakness on your part and XH could be back in your house. Yes, it sux to have to divorce a man you once loved deeply and may still love.
I rarely talk about this but the 25th anniversary of my divorce was in December. I was married for 5 years in my early 20's to a wonderful older man who had served honorably as a corpsman in Viet Nam. Unfortunately he suffered from untreated PTSD and periodic binge drinking. So long as he stayed sober and did not drink, things were good. Problem was he periodically fell of the wagon but it was always unpredictable and dangerous. First time it happened we had been married well over a year and I had known him well over 2 years - I came home from work one day and he was drunk with flash backs, shelling the driveway and had to be removed from our ranch, our home in handcuffs. Unfortunately, he refused help and eventually I had to leave to preserve my own safety and sanity. After a lengthy separation, he chose to file for divorce and I chose not to contest it. The time periods always varied from a few months to even years between incidents but as I recently learned for a former friend mutual friend (he got custody of that couple in the divorce), it is still the same pattern, 25 years later. Only difference is now more people have seen the situation for themselves and know why I left. She even apologized for the way they had treated me and all I felt was profound sadness, disappointment and tremendous gratitude I had left when I did.
Here is the reason I shared this information with you - 25 years later I still love the man he was when sober and sane. I probably always will and I finally accept the fact that it is totally OK. If he did not have good/great qualities and attributes I never would have fallen in love with him and certainly never would have married him. However, just because I love him and always will, does not mean that we should or even could be married and it does not mean he is good for me. Very sad, even tragic but the truth is that his illness and his refusal, even inability to get treatment, is what destroyed out life together. YMMV.
I am not re-reading this because I will chicken out on posting something this personal and revealing - however I think it is important for all of us to share our experiences and what gave us strength and why we have hope. I chose to go to Al-Anon and do a lot of private therapy - I know that there are support groups for loved ones with psychiatric illnesses that maybe could be of help to you. Bottom line is this - he has an illness - if he were a diabetic that refused to manage his blood sugars, you would never allow your son to be in his sole care until a significant amount of time had gone by and he proved he had changed his ways.
Sending love and hugs and support and understanding and prayers for you and all of your family because if you stay strong and do what you need to do, this too will pass and things will be better.
ETA - Please do not quote the personal parts of this post - for many reasons I will probably heavily edit this later on but for some reason would like for MPL and anyone who wants/needs it to see it first. Thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 20:36:29 GMT -5
Thank you so much for your post sarahjese. I appreciate all the advice from everyone here, but the BTDT people really seem to know what I'm feeling. I post all the bad stuff, but he does have a lot of very good qualities and I do miss a lot of what we had, and want him to have a good life and for our son to have a relationship with him, so this is really hard sometimes. Today, not so much. He bought a boat.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 21:14:30 GMT -5
He bought a boat. Exactly why you don't cut him slack on the % split up front. Even though he is on meds and behavior is under control on the surface, there is history there that you don't know about. Treating your son like a possession, being obsessed with him or you, poor impulse control it's all part of a mental health issue. It sounds like something that is too familiar to me. You need to demand that his diagnosis and evaluation file is shared with the court. If it is what I am familiar with, he would never get a document from a psych saying he was able to parent if on meds. More likely it would say that he may not ever be able to independently parent. You can't trust him to tell the truth, so unless he is willing to share his evaluation with you, don't believe anything he says. They can be staring at a document that says they can't parent on their own and need support & respite assistance, and straight faced tell you it says they can have unrestricted time. Hoping you had a good weekend and can take a little time to get into the drivers seat on the proposed plan!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 22:50:29 GMT -5
I agree with the party who said he needs to show job security by length of time on the job and that 2 years is a good place to start. Let the XH go into court fighting to add his son to his insurance then calmly ask when coverage does not start - 90 days after actual date of hire? ALsso, will he even have started work buy the hearing date in August? He starts tomorrow morning! I'm totally excited to have him on a regular schedule. I would have been happier had it been second shift, but I'll take this. His normal hours will be 6-2:30, but Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday this week he will work 7-4:30 for orientation. And as a side note of how hands off my family stays even though they see me all the time. I was on my phone with my Mom the other day and she was going on about something, probably her dogs or another trip they were leaving on, and I interrupted her. It went something like this. Me:"X got a job at XYZ corp making $23/hour". Mom: (after a little hemming and hawing like she didn't know who I was talking about) "Isn't he in a halfway house?" Me: No. He hasn't been in there since March. He has an apartment. Mom: Are they going to shuttle him? Me: Um, no. Who are they anyhow? He will drive. Mom: Well, sometimes big companies have shuttle services. What does he drive? Does he have anything reliable? That's an awful long way to go? (it's 30 miles). Me: Dan made that trip for years. (my brother) Mom: Yeah, but it's really far, and winter will be rough. Couldn't he get anything in town? Me: MOM. DID YOU HEAR THE PART WHERE I SAID HE GOT A JOB MAKING $23/HOUR? Mom: Yes, but he better hope he has a good car. Speaking of cars, we're taking one down to Iola this weekend (begin 20 minute rambling about what she has to do before her next vacation).
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