Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 11, 2014 10:25:39 GMT -5
So there was a space for "child support" in the section of the form to determine what child support hubby two should pay where you were to list your household income and you didn't know if it meant you should list the child support you were receiving from hubby one? Can anyone think of any reason for including a space for child support in this section of the form if they didn't expect you to list child support you were receiving? As was indicated previously, child support pays for some of the general expenses necessary for a child to exist. The fact that you are getting income from source one to help with the heating bill is relevant to how much source two needs to pay to keep the house at a livable temperature. Looking at the calculator, where I saw "childsupport" it was asking if you PAID child support, not if you received it. So you were right to leave it blank. They are taking into account any money that he might already be paying out for other kids.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Jul 11, 2014 10:26:34 GMT -5
WOW. Learning new things about different laws in different states. Interesting. Everything was spelled out in my divorce decree regarding issues like child support, etc. (and I can say I don't know the way it is handled today in my state though) I truly don't envy you having to go thru so much other stuff after the divorce is final. Seems like it is never done and over with this way. But some of your posts make more sense to me now so hope I wasn't being - don't know the word I'm looking for - maybe questioning to much. Just didn't have a clear picture. Remember he was in jail and unemployed when the divorce happened. It had to be taken care of quickly to make him a ward of the state and was about a 10 day deal. If they had to set child support at the time it would have just been $0 and we would have been back dealing with this again now anyhow. Except, there is a line for "potential income" where you fill out what he SHOULD be making if he held a job. Could he make that at the time? No, but... it would allow for an amount that has to be covered when he does get a job. When he goes to do his taxes, the state can withhold any refund if there are overdue payments. However, you will have to keep the state informed. My ex wouldn't pay, so they garnished his wages. When he found a new job, I had to figure out where he was working so they would collect again. When he fell behind, I got his state tax refund. Now they are a little better about following him since computers are used more, and I don't miss months of payments like I used to once he has started working again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 10:26:35 GMT -5
He can threaten to go for 50%. And if he does, you can threaten too. Realistically here, he's the one with drugs and domestic issues in his background. You've been kind and generous. You don't have to be. If he wants a fight, make sure he knows he'll get one. And it won't be pretty. Again though. Nothing in court says he did drugs or had domestic issues (well, there was the one thing he was accused of, but charges were dropped so I don't think it can be used). He has breaking a no contact order and several disorderly conduct where I wasn't even around. The only documented stuff is the mental health issues. He was told if he's med compliant and stable he could get the supervised dropped.
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Jul 11, 2014 10:29:39 GMT -5
Here is the calculator for your state. And, it's not half of everything for each if you make different wages. childsupportcalculator.dhs.state.mn.us/Calculator.aspxI just plugged in some made up numbers, a $30k income for you, $50k income for him. He WAS granted less than 10% custody since it's all supervised (and you do the supervision), so use that number. If you pay $350 in child care, $75 to keep your son on your insurance, and don't get other benefits, you would receive $800 a month. Now I'll go back and read the rest of the page... Totally unrelated, but everythime I watch your avatar I giggle
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 10:29:39 GMT -5
They don't allow Character witnesses? No one witnessed anything? He never failed a drug test? I'd be threatening to put anyone on the stand. Did your kids witness anything?
Why was he in jail?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 11, 2014 10:30:09 GMT -5
I would like to think that 'stable' includes completing the divorce provisions of parenting classes etc. but sadly assume it means stable job, stable housing and stable social life.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 10:31:09 GMT -5
Remember he was in jail and unemployed when the divorce happened. It had to be taken care of quickly to make him a ward of the state and was about a 10 day deal. If they had to set child support at the time it would have just been $0 and we would have been back dealing with this again now anyhow. Except, there is a line for "potential income" where you fill out what he SHOULD be making if he held a job. Could he make that at the time? No, but... it would allow for an amount that has to be covered when he does get a job. When he goes to do his taxes, the state can withhold any refund if there are overdue payments. However, you will have to keep the state informed. My ex wouldn't pay, so they garnished his wages. When he found a new job, I had to figure out where he was working so they would collect again. When he fell behind, I got his state tax refund. Now they are a little better about following him since computers are used more, and I don't miss months of payments like I used to once he has started working again. If you're incarcerated for anything but non-payment of child support, the "potential income" line has to be set to 0. That's mainly for the parents just not working who could be. The state handles keeping track of any income he's making and garnishing wages for a fee of 2% of the support.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 11, 2014 10:32:57 GMT -5
Except, there is a line for "potential income" where you fill out what he SHOULD be making if he held a job. Could he make that at the time? No, but... it would allow for an amount that has to be covered when he does get a job. When he goes to do his taxes, the state can withhold any refund if there are overdue payments. However, you will have to keep the state informed. My ex wouldn't pay, so they garnished his wages. When he found a new job, I had to figure out where he was working so they would collect again. When he fell behind, I got his state tax refund. Now they are a little better about following him since computers are used more, and I don't miss months of payments like I used to once he has started working again. If you're incarcerated for anything but non-payment of child support, the "potential income" line has to be set to 0. That's mainly for the parents just not working who could be. The state handles keeping track of any income he's making and garnishing wages for a fee of 2% of the support. That is crazy. Even incarcerated folks here owe the minimum $50/month. Granted most can't pay, but their bill accrues.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 11, 2014 10:34:35 GMT -5
He can threaten to go for 50%. And if he does, you can threaten too. Realistically here, he's the one with drugs and domestic issues in his background. You've been kind and generous. You don't have to be. If he wants a fight, make sure he knows he'll get one. And it won't be pretty. Again though. Nothing in court says he did drugs or had domestic issues (well, there was the one thing he was accused of, but charges were dropped so I don't think it can be used). He has breaking a no contact order and several disorderly conduct where I wasn't even around. The only documented stuff is the mental health issues. He was told if he's med compliant and stable he could get the supervised dropped.
Unless you were there when he was told this, I wouldn't believe anything he tells you.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 10:35:43 GMT -5
They don't allow Character witnesses? No one witnessed anything? He never failed a drug test? I'd be threatening to put anyone on the stand. Did your kids witness anything? Why was he in jail? No. He's never failed a drug test. I have no clue on how the character witness thing goes or what's admissible or what would backfire on me. He was in jail for his own protection after a breakdown.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 10:36:40 GMT -5
Again though. Nothing in court says he did drugs or had domestic issues (well, there was the one thing he was accused of, but charges were dropped so I don't think it can be used). He has breaking a no contact order and several disorderly conduct where I wasn't even around. The only documented stuff is the mental health issues. He was told if he's med compliant and stable he could get the supervised dropped.
Unless you were there when he was told this, I wouldn't believe anything he tells you. It's in the divorce decree.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 10:39:04 GMT -5
If you're incarcerated for anything but non-payment of child support, the "potential income" line has to be set to 0. That's mainly for the parents just not working who could be. The state handles keeping track of any income he's making and garnishing wages for a fee of 2% of the support. That is crazy. Even incarcerated folks here owe the minimum $50/month. Granted most can't pay, but their bill accrues. I'm just saying that the potential income line has to be set to $0. If you cannot provide any support, the default here is also $50/month. I'm guessing it just accrues and if someday you get a windfall or a job, you're expected to pay the arrears.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 11, 2014 10:41:48 GMT -5
Unless you were there when he was told this, I wouldn't believe anything he tells you. It's in the divorce decree. Ok then. Stable = not dumping water on the kid and telling him to "cool off" when DS is having a meltdown. Stable = not tossing a conniption fit when DS is behaving like an average preschooler. Which means he needs to take the damn parenting class and anger management classes.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 11, 2014 10:43:24 GMT -5
It's in the divorce decree. Ok then. Stable = not dumping water on the kid and telling him to "cool off" when DS is having a meltdown. Stable = not tossing a conniption fit when DS is behaving like an average preschooler. Which means he needs to take the damn parenting class and anger management classes. Damn, did those things happen?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 11, 2014 10:43:55 GMT -5
I seriously don't see any judge saying its okay for having unsupervised visits when the one parent was committed for being dangerous to himself. That's one step to being dangerous to another.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 11, 2014 10:44:21 GMT -5
We did tell you a long time ago to save those texts.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 11, 2014 10:45:32 GMT -5
Ok then. Stable = not dumping water on the kid and telling him to "cool off" when DS is having a meltdown. Stable = not tossing a conniption fit when DS is behaving like an average preschooler. Which means he needs to take the damn parenting class and anger management classes. Damn, did those things happen? Yeah, at a soccer thing. Not sure where it was mentioned on the boards though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 10:49:30 GMT -5
Min. I want to me nice, but i'm not sure how this will come off, so i'm starting out saying that I admire your efforts and your ability to weather some pretty shitty circumstances thrown at you.
Now the tough love.
You are attempting to be fair and reasonable with a man who is not, may not even have the capacity to be, fair and reasonable. You are always accommodating, to the point of allowing yourself to be easily manipulated. He SEES this. He knows he can work you. He knows if he mentions another woman he can set you off. He knows that if he threatens you will back down.
This is NOT a good place to be in.
If he suggests he is a good candidate for 50% custody because he doesn't like your child support number... you have to fight in the same manner as he. Not back down. Or you will be forever backing down.
I don't mean be crazy screaming batty bird. But if he suggests that he is going to go for custody... You explain how you will be talking to every family member, every employer, every co-worker, every friend, that halfway house, the guards (jail or psych ward?), any person you can think of who might have witnessed the shit he has put you through and will attest to it. And while you'd rather not have your children put through that, having them testify is less harmful in the long run than having them in his unstable environment, so you'll have the kids questioned too by an outside psychiatrist if not the state, and YOU WILL retain custody, and if he manages to get out of that with even supervised visitation, he will be lucky... You need to be calm, and dead serious.
He has to know that you will NOT cave and be a pushover.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 10:53:14 GMT -5
I seriously don't see any judge saying its okay for having unsupervised visits when the one parent was committed for being dangerous to himself. That's one step to being dangerous to another. You don't live in our state! His sister get unsupervised time with her kids and she's a total nut job. He is going to appear 100X more stable than her in court. He has his own apartment goes to counseling and therapy twice a week, never failed a drug test, is being treated for his bipolar and the meds he started a couple months ago really do seem to be working. His sister has never held a job for more than a few months, fails drug tests, shacks up with boyfriends because she can't afford rent, was committed to a psych ward several times and she still gets the kids every other weekend.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jul 11, 2014 11:12:30 GMT -5
He's not paying to get a service. He's paying to make sure his kid has insurance, a safe place to be during the day, a place to sleep and a roof over his head. Child support has NOTHING to do with the dad, or really with you for that matter. It's to take care of kiddo. Paying CS =/= paying for access to kid Yeah, I know that, and YOU know that, but I'll bet you anything he looks at it differently. He's already wanted me to provide him an itemized list of every dime I spent on our son because he doesn't see how he should have to pay more than $500/month and that as soon as he starts kindy it should be less than that. He thinks I'm just using it to pad my lifestyle. Back when we were still married and we'd argue and divorce would come up he was always saying he would insist on 50/50 custody so he didn't have to pay any child support. I've only read to this point but apologizes if it's been covered. Doesn't matter- even with 50/50 custody in MN he will still have to pay child support.
My brother has 50/50 custody of his kids and he has to pay child support. They basically determine a flat rate per kid that it costs to raise a kid in MN and then allot a proportional amount from each parent to cover that cost.
I don't remember the specifics but I'll use round numbers. So say it costs $750 per month for a kid- my brother has 2 kids so the figure would be $1,500. She makes 1/3 of what he does so she is responsible for 1/3 of that $1,500 - or $500 and he is responsible for 2/3 of that $1,500 or- $1,000. He has to pay her the difference between what a true 50/50 split would be. So in theory it should cost them each $750 per month. So he pays her $250 in child support.
Obviously these aren't the real numbers but that's how it was explained to me. Right now he pays for daycare for the kids (before and after school for the oldest and full time for the youngest) and reimburses her for 2/3 of the dependent medical coverage through her employer. Once the kids are both in school full time and daycare costs go down she will get that daycare money in the form of child support.
She pushed VERY hard to get my nephew in to kindergarten this coming fall as he turns 5 in August so she would get the child support money instead of the daycare getting it. But he is nowhere near ready and the school told them as much at his screening. They said he would not be successful starting at 5 and would likely have significant problems as he went through elementary school so they are making them wait until he is 6.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 11, 2014 11:12:49 GMT -5
Oh boy.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 11:21:53 GMT -5
Yeah, I know that, and YOU know that, but I'll bet you anything he looks at it differently. He's already wanted me to provide him an itemized list of every dime I spent on our son because he doesn't see how he should have to pay more than $500/month and that as soon as he starts kindy it should be less than that. He thinks I'm just using it to pad my lifestyle. Back when we were still married and we'd argue and divorce would come up he was always saying he would insist on 50/50 custody so he didn't have to pay any child support. I've only read to this point but apologizes if it's been covered. Doesn't matter- even with 50/50 custody in MN he will still have to pay child support.
My brother has 50/50 custody of his kids and he has to pay child support. They basically determine a flat rate per kid that it costs to raise a kid in MN and then allot a proportional amount from each parent to cover that cost.
I don't remember the specifics but I'll use round numbers. So say it costs $750 per month for a kid- my brother has 2 kids so the figure would be $1,500. She makes 1/3 of what he does so she is responsible for 1/3 of that $1,500 - or $500 and he is responsible for 2/3 of that $1,500 or- $1,000. He has to pay her the difference between what a true 50/50 split would be. So in theory it should cost them each $750 per month. So he pays her $250 in child support.
Obviously these aren't the real numbers but that's how it was explained to me. Right now he pays for daycare for the kids (before and after school for the oldest and full time for the youngest) and reimburses her for 2/3 of the dependent medical coverage through her employer. Once the kids are both in school full time and daycare costs go down she will get that daycare money in the form of child support.
She pushed VERY hard to get my nephew in to kindergarten this coming fall as he turns 5 in August so she would get the child support money instead of the daycare getting it. But he is nowhere near ready and the school told them as much at his screening. They said he would not be successful starting at 5 and would likely have significant problems as he went through elementary school so they are making them wait until he is 6.
He could easily get that changed. Again, there are three main components to MN child support. Basic Support, Childcare, and Insurance. If there is no longer childcare (or it's reduced) it's pretty easy to get that modified. And the 50/50 thing is what he wanted when we were talking divorce while still married. We'd always made about the same, so except for paying half child care and insurance, it would have pretty much been no support in that situation.
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whoami
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Post by whoami on Jul 11, 2014 11:23:22 GMT -5
... I don't know if I was supposed to include it or not. There was a line for child support, but I left it blank and just put a note asking if I was supposed to include payments from older son's father and they never called me or anything, so I'm going to just go with no. So there was a space for "child support" in the section of the form to determine what child support hubby two should pay where you were to list your household income and you didn't know if it meant you should list the child support you were receiving from hubby one? Can anyone think of any reason for including a space for child support in this section of the form if they didn't expect you to list child support you were receiving? As was indicated previously, child support pays for some of the general expenses necessary for a child to exist. The fact that you are getting income from source one to help with the heating bill is relevant to how much source two needs to pay to keep the house at a livable temperature. Child support is deducted from the persons income who is paying it along with a few other things that are allowable deductions. Whatever number is left after the deductions is what the CS is based on. Ex paid CS to his first wife so that was deducted from his income when it was computed when we divorced.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 11:26:14 GMT -5
WOW. Learning new things about different laws in different states. Interesting. Everything was spelled out in my divorce decree regarding issues like child support, etc. (and I can say I don't know the way it is handled today in my state though) I truly don't envy you having to go thru so much other stuff after the divorce is final. Seems like it is never done and over with this way. But some of your posts make more sense to me now so hope I wasn't being - don't know the word I'm looking for - maybe questioning to much. Just didn't have a clear picture. Remember he was in jail and unemployed when the divorce happened. It had to be taken care of quickly to make him a ward of the state and was about a 10 day deal. If they had to set child support at the time it would have just been $0 and we would have been back dealing with this again now anyhow. I just remembered something else too. Another reason my attorney and I decided to push this through quickly and deal with the other stuff later. He was unemployed and having medical issues. He could have easily fought and potentially won alimony.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Jul 11, 2014 11:34:52 GMT -5
Remember he was in jail and unemployed when the divorce happened. It had to be taken care of quickly to make him a ward of the state and was about a 10 day deal. If they had to set child support at the time it would have just been $0 and we would have been back dealing with this again now anyhow. I just remembered something else too. Another reason my attorney and I decided to push this through quickly and deal with the other stuff later. He was unemployed and having medical issues. He could have easily fought and potentially won alimony. That would have sucked! I know it's no fun now, but at least the situation is more in your favor than it was. One more thought. He's been offered a job now, so even if he were to fail the drug test and not get the job, you have a number for "potential income". And a better case to keep supervised visitation. The calculator is really fast to fill out. When we did mine, I asked a single coworker what he paid for insurance to figure out the cost of my son's insurance (it went straight from single to family, not matter how many people you had on there. So your son's cost would be (your cost for family-single cost)/2 (divide by two to account for each son). If you don't have a single coworker, I'd contact HR today (or the equivalent) and see what your cost as a single would be.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 11:36:41 GMT -5
How do YOU know he was doing drugs?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 11, 2014 11:42:27 GMT -5
Hmm. I looked at the OP, page 4, page 12, page 15, and this page. The only common theme seems to be a child, his dad, rolls of hay, and (maybe?) a bitter custody battle between two unspecified parties...? I can only assume that the situation in the OP escalated to the point that the boy, while searching for his teeth, discovered his father and a married woman "rolling in the hay", prompting a custody battle that also somehow involved hair dye and security systems, which were also mentioned on the pages I visited. Perhaps it's time for a 5-6 bullet point summary of the thread. It's somewhat difficult to penetrate.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jul 11, 2014 11:45:50 GMT -5
He could easily get that changed. Again, there are three main components to MN child support. Basic Support, Childcare, and Insurance. If there is no longer childcare (or it's reduced) it's pretty easy to get that modified.
My brother is SUPER lazy so I don't see him doing much to change things. He will always make close to 3 times what my exSIL makes. She works on an assembly line and has no real desire to change her situation. Her mom and two sisters all work there too. She's been there since she graduated from high school and has stayed for the past 10 years. I think she makes close to $13 an hour now.
From what my dad said- once the daycare expense ends she'll be eligible to receive actual child support. Right now when they figured out what he would be contributing it pretty much matched what daycare cost and a portion of the dependent medical coverage. So it was decided that my brother would pay those items in lieu of paying her child support and then her paying the daycare out of the CS payments.
IDK - the two of them are messed up big time. I try not to ask too many questions about the whole situation. Not my circus, not my monkeys.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 11:48:24 GMT -5
How do YOU know he was doing drugs? I lived with him! Not too hard to know someone is using weed. They stink of it for one thing. Plus I would see him doing it, knew where he stashed it and he wasn't exactly hiding it. He switched to the synthetic thinking it would be legal and ok, but that totally messed with his head, I mean it was horrible. When he got addicted to xanax that was more witnessing his behavior, then I started counting pills and realizing how many he was going through in a day. I was with him when he thought he lost his bottle in Northern MN. It was the middle of the night and he was in a panic wanting to go back there and start looking through the freaking boundry waters...at night...for a bottle of pills. I'm pretty sure he was abusing the pain meds after his accident last Easter which triggered this whole downfall. He's been pretty open with me about what he has and has not done as far as drugs go. Basically heroin and meth are the only things he hasn't tried.
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jul 11, 2014 11:50:45 GMT -5
How do YOU know he was doing drugs? I lived with him! Not too hard to know someone is using weed. They stink of it for one thing. Plus I would see him doing it, knew where he stashed it and he wasn't exactly hiding it. He switched to the synthetic thinking it would be legal and ok, but that totally messed with his head, I mean it was horrible. When he got addicted to xanax that was more witnessing his behavior, then I started counting pills and realizing how many he was going through in a day. I was with him when he thought he lost his bottle in Northern MN. It was the middle of the night and he was in a panic wanting to go back there and start looking through the freaking boundry waters...at night...for a bottle of pills. I'm pretty sure he was abusing the pain meds after his accident last Easter which triggered this whole downfall. So this is all the house's fault. You gotta sell that house.
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