zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 11, 2014 8:59:32 GMT -5
I have a friend who had to use her first child's support check as income to her when support for second child was being computed. When she objected by saying she didnt think her first husband should be supporting child from second husband, she was told that's the way it goes.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 8:59:48 GMT -5
Well, the last time we were there. $0. He had no income. I don't know what it would be now. Technically he hasn't started work yet. Still has the drug test today, but he assures me this will not be an issue. The calculator in MN is really complicated. It takes both incomes, combines them into one and comes up with a joint support amount, then it's adjusted based on parenting time and you're credited for insurance and child care that you pay. Long story short, I haven't messed with figuring it out. Truth is, I'd rather he didn't pay and just went away. I wish that could be an option. Him having to pay me just makes him feel he should get something for his money. He's not paying to get a service. He's paying to make sure his kid has insurance, a safe place to be during the day, a place to sleep and a roof over his head. Child support has NOTHING to do with the dad, or really with you for that matter. It's to take care of kiddo. Paying CS =/= paying for access to kid Yeah, I know that, and YOU know that, but I'll bet you anything he looks at it differently. He's already wanted me to provide him an itemized list of every dime I spent on our son because he doesn't see how he should have to pay more than $500/month and that as soon as he starts kindy it should be less than that. He thinks I'm just using it to pad my lifestyle. Back when we were still married and we'd argue and divorce would come up he was always saying he would insist on 50/50 custody so he didn't have to pay any child support.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 9:01:16 GMT -5
So, interesting thought experiment. If your first husband pays 1000$ and that's his half. And your second pays 700$, is the court essentially saying you should spend more money on one of to your kids? I mean, I know incomes are disparate, so it's not possible to be 'equal'... But it does make for some interesting questions... According to the state of MN. They add both incomes together and say "in theory, if you were married, this is what you both together would be spending on your child". If you have two 100K parents that's going to be a lot more than two 30K ones.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 9:03:35 GMT -5
Electricity, heat, property taxes, etc go in part option to your son.
On the other topic I was thinjpking in terms of her 50% comment...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 9:04:35 GMT -5
I have a friend who had to use her first child's support check as income to her when support for second child was being computed. When she objected by saying she didnt think her first husband should be supporting child from second husband, she was told that's the way it goes. I don't know if I was supposed to include it or not. There was a line for child support, but I left it blank and just put a note asking if I was supposed to include payments from older son's father and they never called me or anything, so I'm going to just go with no.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 11, 2014 9:05:15 GMT -5
Good idea.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 11, 2014 9:10:58 GMT -5
Yeah, I know that, and YOU know that, but I'll bet you anything he looks at it differently.
So? It's not his call. It's the courts' call how much he is going to actually end up paying in support.
Don't agree to a random number just because he whines. Let the court settle what he pays based on their calculator. It doesn't matter what HE thinks and he isn't entitled to know where all your money goes.
That's why the courts have calculators so people can't nitpick the other parent's finances.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 9:19:35 GMT -5
Yeah, I know that, and YOU know that, but I'll bet you anything he looks at it differently. So? It's not his call. It's the courts' call how much he is going to actually end up paying in support. Don't agree to a random number just because he whines. Let the court settle what he pays based on their calculator. It doesn't matter what HE thinks and he isn't entitled to know where all your money goes. That's why the courts have calculators so people can't nitpick the other parent's finances. MN is very pro having both parents work things out, with parenting plan and child support. I was in court a few weeks ago and the first thing she asked was what we had discussed. She even left the courtroom and had the recorder turned off so we could talk amongst ourselves. She said whenever she makes a ruling she ends up with two bitter parents that it's better to feel like you both contributed to the decision. They're also very pro having both parents involved and given parenting time regardless of their circumstances.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 11, 2014 9:23:34 GMT -5
Really I think NY would. So what is the state calculations is saying for your ex? Well, the last time we were there. $0. He had no income. I don't know what it would be now. Technically he hasn't started work yet. Still has the drug test today, but he assures me this will not be an issue. The calculator in MN is really complicated. It takes both incomes, combines them into one and comes up with a joint support amount, then it's adjusted based on parenting time and you're credited for insurance and child care that you pay. Long story short, I haven't messed with figuring it out. Truth is, I'd rather he didn't pay and just went away. I wish that could be an option. Him having to pay me just makes him feel he should get something for his money. So go there (I"m assuming it's a website) and plug in 50K a year for him. See what comes out.
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 11, 2014 9:23:35 GMT -5
Give the fact that his whole concentration when talking about divorce and the child in the same conversation, money was his focus, MPL. Not the child. He was concerned that HE might have to pay more than HE wanted to pay and YOU might benefit from what HE would pay. Oh, horrerz! Nowhere in there is there any mention of the child.
He sounds like my first husband (who was also a drunk). It didn't take very long after the court said he'd have to pay child support (he didn't and the state took it from his pay and forwarded it to me), he was suddenly not all that interested in seeing his son. No cards on birthdays, no visits, no nothing. It was all about the money and having control over me.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 11, 2014 9:27:35 GMT -5
Yeah, I know that, and YOU know that, but I'll bet you anything he looks at it differently. So? It's not his call. It's the courts' call how much he is going to actually end up paying in support. Don't agree to a random number just because he whines. Let the court settle what he pays based on their calculator. It doesn't matter what HE thinks and he isn't entitled to know where all your money goes. That's why the courts have calculators so people can't nitpick the other parent's finances. MN is very pro having both parents work things out, with parenting plan and child support. I was in court a few weeks ago and the first thing she asked was what we had discussed. She even left the courtroom and had the recorder turned off so we could talk amongst ourselves. She said whenever she makes a ruling she ends up with two bitter parents that it's better to feel like you both contributed to the decision. They're also very pro having both parents involved and given parenting time regardless of their circumstances. Next time, I'd ask the judge to explain, to both of you, exactly what constitutes child support. Because your idiot ex needs to hear it from a higher authority. If you need a reason - "Judge, I'd like to make sure that idiot ex and I are on the same page regarding what the court defines as child support and what it should be covering. And is there a percentage for standard living expenses involved such as utilities, etc."
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 11, 2014 9:30:33 GMT -5
Ask your lawyer about getting a gal assigned, or contact a Casa group in your area. It sucks but I don't think you can assume that anyone else is looking out for you in this. The gal isnt looking out for you either, but then you have a 3rd party that the court will rely on to determine his visitation. And the fact that you have been doing frequent visits with him, in a variety of settings might make the court assume that you're ok with your arrangement. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards I don't know that a GAL is advisable for her situation. The GALs role (as it is documented in my state) is to ensure that both parents maintain a parenting relationship with the child. It does not matter if the the offender beat the mother or has a drug or alcohol problem. The overriding objective is to ensure the parent-child bond stays intact. Because the organization that guides the GALs here has decided, regardless of the parental deficiencies, that maintaining the bond is paramount to the interests of the child, that is how their recommendations are skewed. This has gone badly in several cases here, so I truly hope it changes. MPL needs to find out what the GAL agenda is in her state before she asks for one. At this point, unless MPL gave testimony that she was attacked all the court knows is that the guy quietly went off his rocker and did not harm her or the child. MPL does need to show the lengths she has gone to to facilitate visitation AND advise the judge of the adverse impact on her and her other children by supporting that difficult schedule commitment. She needs to request an order for supervised visitation provided by a court appointed entity and to ask the father to pay for it since he is employed at a better wage now. Make a list of the obsessive behavior towards the child. Feel free to advise the judge of the situations and how much it concerns you. If ex's phone is on your account and in your name, you can also advise that you have noticed by his phone records that he is back in touch with his drug culture, rap sheet carrying friends. That this seriously concerns you because they are a bad influence on the child if he is exposed and your ex takes on far riskier behaviors when he is self medicating, such as overreacting and attacking people (BIL example you gave earlier). Also think carefully of what hoops you want the ex to jump through to gain visitation, because the judge wants to know you are not trying to limit it out of spite. Do you want him to get a full psychological evaluation? A psychological parenting evaluation? Routine drug screens? A full psych evaluation might slow him down a little. Best of Luck in August! That's interesting about gal's that I hadn't heard. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 11, 2014 9:35:07 GMT -5
... I don't know if I was supposed to include it or not. There was a line for child support, but I left it blank and just put a note asking if I was supposed to include payments from older son's father and they never called me or anything, so I'm going to just go with no. So there was a space for "child support" in the section of the form to determine what child support hubby two should pay where you were to list your household income and you didn't know if it meant you should list the child support you were receiving from hubby one? Can anyone think of any reason for including a space for child support in this section of the form if they didn't expect you to list child support you were receiving? As was indicated previously, child support pays for some of the general expenses necessary for a child to exist. The fact that you are getting income from source one to help with the heating bill is relevant to how much source two needs to pay to keep the house at a livable temperature.
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 11, 2014 9:36:23 GMT -5
Next time, I'd ask the judge to explain, to both of you, exactly what constitutes child support. Because your idiot ex needs to hear it from a higher authority. If you need a reason - "Judge, I'd like to make sure that idiot ex and I are on the same page regarding what the court defines as child support and what it should be covering. And is there a percentage for standard living expenses involved such as utilities, etc." I'd also ask if it is possible to get another judge. Her stance is awesome if you have two rational logical parents who both want what is best for their kids. Your DH is not operating with a full deck. You're not going to be able to come to a peaceful resolution thru thoughtful discussion with him, you're going to need more involvement from a higher authority third person. Could your lawyer explain the situation to the judge in a meeting?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 9:42:31 GMT -5
... I don't know if I was supposed to include it or not. There was a line for child support, but I left it blank and just put a note asking if I was supposed to include payments from older son's father and they never called me or anything, so I'm going to just go with no. So there was a space for "child support" in the section of the form to determine what child support hubby two should pay where you were to list your household income and you didn't know if it meant you should list the child support you were receiving from hubby one? Can anyone think of any reason for including a space for child support in this section of the form if they didn't expect you to list child support you were receiving? As was indicated previously, child support pays for some of the general expenses necessary for a child to exist. The fact that you are getting income from source one to help with the heating bill is relevant to how much source two needs to pay to keep the house at a livable temperature. It's been nearly a year since I filled out the application and I don't remember precisely but under income there was a line that says monthly child support for non-joint children. It was confusing how it was worded which is why I didn't just say 0. I wrote in there that I was unsure. However, when I look at the calculator, it's pretty clear it's for money going OUT, not coming in. 6. What is the monthly income received? $ $ 7. What is the potential income for each parent, if any? $ $ 8. What is the monthly amount the joint child(ren) receive in benefits from Social Security or the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) due to a parent's eligibility? $ $ 9. If the joint child(ren) receive Social Security or VA benefits due to Parent A's eligibility, is Parent B the representative payee? YesNo 10. What is the monthly amount each parent is ordered to pay for spousal maintenance? $ $ 11. What is the total amount each parent is ordered to pay for monthly child support for nonjoint child(ren)? $ $ 12. What is the number of nonjoint child(ren) living in the home? 13. What is the monthly cost of health care coverage for the joint child(ren)? $ $ 14. What is the monthly cost of dental coverage for the joint child(ren) if separate from health care coverage? $ $
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 11, 2014 9:57:39 GMT -5
So there was a space for "child support" in the section of the form to determine what child support hubby two should pay where you were to list your household income and you didn't know if it meant you should list the child support you were receiving from hubby one? Can anyone think of any reason for including a space for child support in this section of the form if they didn't expect you to list child support you were receiving? As was indicated previously, child support pays for some of the general expenses necessary for a child to exist. The fact that you are getting income from source one to help with the heating bill is relevant to how much source two needs to pay to keep the house at a livable temperature. It's been nearly a year since I filled out the application and I don't remember precisely but under income there was a line that says monthly child support for non-joint children. It was confusing how it was worded which is why I didn't just say 0. I wrote in there that I was unsure. However, when I look at the calculator, it's pretty clear it's for money going OUT, not coming in. 6. What is the monthly income received? $ $ 7. What is the potential income for each parent, if any? $ $ 8. What is the monthly amount the joint child(ren) receive in benefits from Social Security or the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) due to a parent's eligibility? $ $ 9. If the joint child(ren) receive Social Security or VA benefits due to Parent A's eligibility, is Parent B the representative payee? YesNo 10. What is the monthly amount each parent is ordered to pay for spousal maintenance? $ $ 11. What is the total amount each parent is ordered to pay for monthly child support for nonjoint child(ren)? $ $ 12. What is the number of nonjoint child(ren) living in the home? 13. What is the monthly cost of health care coverage for the joint child(ren)? $ $ 14. What is the monthly cost of dental coverage for the joint child(ren) if separate from health care coverage? $ $ Yes it is clear.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jul 11, 2014 9:58:18 GMT -5
Then why not let him reimburse you for whatever portion of insurance he is willing to pay for. And if he quits job you are no worse off and won't have the hassel of getting back on yours. That's the way it works. There's three components of the child support. Basic support, Insurance, and child care. We have to each pay half of everything. If I pay all the insurance through work he has to pay me for 50% of it. I thought you were saying he wanted to carry insurance and you would drop yours at work. I was only saying don't drop yours and let him reimburse you. Guess I misunderstood your post. No way would I drop insurance given his track record. I guess I misunderstood when you said you were concerned about dropping yours and then later having to reinstate it. Like it was an either/or thing. So you can keep it and he can reimburse you - right. I would stick with that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 10:02:10 GMT -5
That's the way it works. There's three components of the child support. Basic support, Insurance, and child care. We have to each pay half of everything. If I pay all the insurance through work he has to pay me for 50% of it. I thought you were saying he wanted to carry insurance and you would drop yours at work. I was only saying don't drop yours and let him reimburse you. Guess I misunderstood your post. No way would I drop insurance given his track record. I guess I misunderstood when you said you were concerned about dropping yours and then later having to reinstate it. Like it was an either/or thing. So you can keep it and he can reimburse you - right. I would stick with that. Yes. He might be able to argue in court that his is cheaper (it is), but I really don't know much of anything about the coverage beyond that.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Jul 11, 2014 10:03:13 GMT -5
Here is the calculator for your state. And, it's not half of everything for each if you make different wages. childsupportcalculator.dhs.state.mn.us/Calculator.aspxI just plugged in some made up numbers, a $30k income for you, $50k income for him. He WAS granted less than 10% custody since it's all supervised (and you do the supervision), so use that number. If you pay $350 in child care, $75 to keep your son on your insurance, and don't get other benefits, you would receive $800 a month. Now I'll go back and read the rest of the page...
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jul 11, 2014 10:04:13 GMT -5
Do you have an attorney helping you thru this maze?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 10:06:29 GMT -5
Do you have an attorney helping you thru this maze? Not child support. The state attorneys with DHS handle that. The rest, yes. But he has told me when I get served with something give him a call. Still waiting to get served.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Jul 11, 2014 10:09:02 GMT -5
I explained that my health insurance had been the one being used, and I was the one with a steady job (he worked construction, not steady at all). So, there was no fight there, I kept carrying the insurance.
On the calculations page, there are some "extras", be sure to figure those out as well. When calculations were done for childsupport during my divorce, there was a glitch and the daycare and insurance expenses were both erased (I paid for both). Because of that, I lost about $200 a month in child support (I was given the option to fight it, but that would have held up the divorce and I didn't want that to happen).
When you are told to "figure it out", go by the calculator. If, at some point in the future, he gets some form of custody, he can have it adjusted. I know you didn't have to go to court, but court only granted him supervised visitation, so that is what you go with there.
My ex is supposed to pay half of all health care expenses, half of school expenses, etc, but I haven't seen a dime outside of the garnished wages (that don't include half of those expenses). So, see if you can get some in there if you doubt he'll pay them.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 10:09:13 GMT -5
Here is the calculator for your state. And, it's not half of everything for each if you make different wages. childsupportcalculator.dhs.state.mn.us/Calculator.aspxI just plugged in some made up numbers, a $30k income for you, $50k income for him. He WAS granted less than 10% custody since it's all supervised (and you do the supervision), so use that number. If you pay $350 in child care, $75 to keep your son on your insurance, and don't get other benefits, you would receive $800 a month. Now I'll go back and read the rest of the page... Right. I just figured we'd be about the same. It's more like 35K and 45K. And yes, he automatically gets a big cut in child support obligation for crossing over the 10% line, so tell me that isn't a huge incentive to fight to get supervised dropped.
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jul 11, 2014 10:14:38 GMT -5
Do you have an attorney helping you thru this maze? Not child support. The state attorneys with DHS handle that. The rest, yes. But he has told me when I get served with something give him a call. Still waiting to get served. WOW. Learning new things about different laws in different states. Interesting. Everything was spelled out in my divorce decree regarding issues like child support, etc. (and I can say I don't know the way it is handled today in my state though) I truly don't envy you having to go thru so much other stuff after the divorce is final. Seems like it is never done and over with this way. But some of your posts make more sense to me now so hope I wasn't being - don't know the word I'm looking for - maybe questioning to much. Just didn't have a clear picture.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 11, 2014 10:16:30 GMT -5
The judge doesn't want to decide child support either. She basically told us to work something out between us before August or we'll both feel like we were screwed over. I am surprised by this. In my state they have a very specific formula to calculate CS & you need a really good reason to deviate.
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Post by Apple on Jul 11, 2014 10:16:30 GMT -5
Here is the calculator for your state. And, it's not half of everything for each if you make different wages. childsupportcalculator.dhs.state.mn.us/Calculator.aspxI just plugged in some made up numbers, a $30k income for you, $50k income for him. He WAS granted less than 10% custody since it's all supervised (and you do the supervision), so use that number. If you pay $350 in child care, $75 to keep your son on your insurance, and don't get other benefits, you would receive $800 a month. Now I'll go back and read the rest of the page... Right. I just figured we'd be about the same. It's more like 35K and 45K. And yes, he automatically gets a big cut in child support obligation for crossing over the 10% line, so tell me that isn't a huge incentive to fight to get supervised dropped. Those wages, and less than 10% custody makes $742, 10%-45% custody still give you $677 (if you pay $350 daycare, $75 insurance on him). You don't have to use names or file numbers to use the calculator (unless you want to print off the results). He could fight for that $75 a month difference, but would he really? I know he threatens. Mine "threatened" to do 50/50 custody, but we haven't seen him in around 7 years, so threats don't always amount to much of anything.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 10:17:42 GMT -5
Not child support. The state attorneys with DHS handle that. The rest, yes. But he has told me when I get served with something give him a call. Still waiting to get served. WOW. Learning new things about different laws in different states. Interesting. Everything was spelled out in my divorce decree regarding issues like child support, etc. (and I can say I don't know the way it is handled today in my state though) I truly don't envy you having to go thru so much other stuff after the divorce is final. Seems like it is never done and over with this way. But some of your posts make more sense to me now so hope I wasn't being - don't know the word I'm looking for - maybe questioning to much. Just didn't have a clear picture. Remember he was in jail and unemployed when the divorce happened. It had to be taken care of quickly to make him a ward of the state and was about a 10 day deal. If they had to set child support at the time it would have just been $0 and we would have been back dealing with this again now anyhow.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 10:19:50 GMT -5
I really HOPE he is like all these ex's you people describe and really will just drop it, but I don't know. My gut says otherwise.
Actually, ideally he gets his shit together. But if he's not going to do that, I'd rather he dropped off the face of the earth.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 10:21:15 GMT -5
He can threaten to go for 50%. And if he does, you can threaten too. Realistically here, he's the one with drugs and domestic issues in his background. You've been kind and generous. You don't have to be. If he wants a fight, make sure he knows he'll get one. And it won't be pretty.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Jul 11, 2014 10:22:09 GMT -5
... I don't know if I was supposed to include it or not. There was a line for child support, but I left it blank and just put a note asking if I was supposed to include payments from older son's father and they never called me or anything, so I'm going to just go with no. So there was a space for "child support" in the section of the form to determine what child support hubby two should pay where you were to list your household income and you didn't know if it meant you should list the child support you were receiving from hubby one? Can anyone think of any reason for including a space for child support in this section of the form if they didn't expect you to list child support you were receiving? As was indicated previously, child support pays for some of the general expenses necessary for a child to exist. The fact that you are getting income from source one to help with the heating bill is relevant to how much source two needs to pay to keep the house at a livable temperature. Looking at the calculator, where I saw "childsupport" it was asking if you PAID child support, not if you received it.
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